Why so resistant to getting PAR numbers???

ScottB

7500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
7,873
Reaction score
12,155
Location
Fairfield County, CT
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
In the context of LED lights -- especially if you have multiple fixtures -- having a sense of PAR numbers has value. Also, there are some cheap, completely inappropriate fixtures on the market.

A new reefer kept buying corals at my LFS and they kept withering away. Water tested OK. Owner asked about the light and customer says "oh it is this super powerful LED I bought off Amazon". To which he replied: "Great, bring it in and we will compare PAR to this 8 year old Prime HD."

Middle of the tank, this "powerful" LED was pushing 40 PAR. The Prime was pushing 240 in a small tank.

The other instance of value is knowing your hot & cold spots with multiple fixtures. Just 6 inches in a given direction can double or half the available radiation. I was blown away (and switched to T5s).
 

92Miata

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 26, 2020
Messages
1,523
Reaction score
2,485
Location
Richmond, VA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Do you find that corals like more or less light depending on nutrients like if you had a really clean tank would you run the lightes higher or lower?. I'm assuming higher in cleaner because of polyp extension or water clarity but just wondering what you would say

The short of it is that corals need more nutrients in higher light, or in higher alkalinity. High alkalinity, high light, really low nutrients is a recipe for bleaching/lightening followed by tissue death.

Corals get light - move them down, or more food. Corals get brown - move them up, or clean the tank up.
 

mikee002

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 25, 2016
Messages
279
Reaction score
120
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I’m assuming this is the “hack” you guys are referring to?


Thanks

Did the same thing with the 'quantum sensor + multimeter' many years back. I would guess that relatively few people know of this 'hack' which makes reading PAR much more affordable.
 

EMeyer

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 23, 2016
Messages
1,148
Reaction score
1,880
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
All this talk about $600 PAR meters. All you need is this
It plugs right into a standard multimeter like you use to check line voltage.

It was $150 when I bought mine years ago, looks like $180 now. Worth every dime.

Some may quibble over the spectral sensitivity but there are correction factors available on the Apogee website.

I am 100% with the OP. IMO measuring PAR is as important as measuring salinity and alkalinity, and much more important than the other aspects of water chemistry people obsess over.

[edit - I see I was beaten to the punch :) ]
 

Reef Racket

Reef Racket LLC
View Badges
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Messages
283
Reaction score
240
Location
California
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I for one wish there was a bit more information regarding specifics like PAR and possible distances in the tank or even a general chart to help someone of less experience like myself. I am a first time reefer and decided to get an AIO to start out. The “Fluval Flex 32.5 Gal.” To be exact. This tank kit came with a Fluval Marine 3.0 but has a part number specifically for the tank that has little to no information. Been struggling to get additional info on this light and the Fluval website is “lacking”

Other than testing, which I will be doing after reading this thread, is there some general measurement or rule of thumb when it comes to things like wattage, type, size, etc?

Also I’ve read a thread about having two of the same lights and if that will double the PAR or not? Any thoughts?

I have gotten so much great info and advise from reading these forums and I’m more than excited to get this tank going! Thanks everyone!
 

ScottB

7500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
7,873
Reaction score
12,155
Location
Fairfield County, CT
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I for one wish there was a bit more information regarding specifics like PAR and possible distances in the tank or even a general chart to help someone of less experience like myself. I am a first time reefer and decided to get an AIO to start out. The “Fluval Flex 32.5 Gal.” To be exact. This tank kit came with a Fluval Marine 3.0 but has a part number specifically for the tank that has little to no information. Been struggling to get additional info on this light and the Fluval website is “lacking”

Other than testing, which I will be doing after reading this thread, is there some general measurement or rule of thumb when it comes to things like wattage, type, size, etc?

Also I’ve read a thread about having two of the same lights and if that will double the PAR or not? Any thoughts?

I have gotten so much great info and advise from reading these forums and I’m more than excited to get this tank going! Thanks everyone!
A quick paste:
Features:
  • This 24 inch light has legs that can expand to 34 inches
  • This light is controlled with a the Bluetooth in your Android or iOS (Apple) device (phone or tablet)
  • 32 watts
  • 25,000K color temp
  • At 3": PAR=376, LUX=16,290. At 12": PAR=90, LUX=3620. 1350 lumens.
  • IP67 Waterproof certified
  • Fluval part# 14515
This will be fine for all softies and some LPS if they are clearly lit. Perhaps some SPS if you put them up high on top of your rock. Start with the soft zoas etcetera. Then add a duncan. Then maybe a branching hammer (not a wall hammer). After a year+ add some montipora up high. If that lives then some acropora along the top.

Then upgrade (as all survivors do) when that lives.

There is a lot of intel here on R2R. Digest well before taking much action. Going slow and letting the biome do its thing is rarely bad advice.
 

stanlalee

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 14, 2010
Messages
340
Reaction score
330
Location
hampton roads, va
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Me checking PAR is like dynoing a car I'm never going to modify. Once I know what PAR is NOTHING is going to change. My primary aquarium has had the same halides and two bulb brands for over a decade now. Corals have to adapt to my light and placement (and they do 90% of the time) not the other way around. Even with the numbers if a coral is doing seemly well how am I suppose to know if it would like 30% more or less PAR, it's not going to tell me "raise me up to the 200 PAR area, even though I look perfectly fine and grow well here I'll do even better over there....huh...what...you don't have rock or space to put me there and you don't think I'd look good there either"
 

ca1ore

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
13,803
Reaction score
19,657
Location
Stamford, CT
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I'm in my thirty-third year of reefing and managed to muddle by for the majority of that time without measuring PAR. Most corals are incredibly adaptable to light levels, and as long as you do some level of initial acclimation, knowing the exact/approximate PAR really isn't necessary. I do have the Neptune PMK now, but frankly I rarely check it - probably the sensor got overgrown LOL.
 

ScottB

7500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
7,873
Reaction score
12,155
Location
Fairfield County, CT
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Me checking PAR is like dynoing a car I'm never going to modify. Once I know what PAR is NOTHING is going to change. My primary aquarium has had the same halides and two bulb brands for over a decade now. Corals have to adapt to my light and placement (and they do 90% of the time) not the other way around. Even with the numbers if a coral is doing seemly well how am I suppose to know if it would like 30% more or less PAR, it's not going to tell me "raise me up to the 200 PAR area, even though I look perfectly fine and grow well here I'll do even better over there....huh...what...you don't have rock or space to put me there and you don't think I'd look good there either"

We agree. Increasingly though we are the minority. I run 8 X 80 watt T5. It is good and everyone adapts to it pretty well. High PAR corals LOVE it. OK, all love the smooth coverage. I did test just so I had some sense of the power my then new fixture was pushing.

However, I would submit to you that (right or wrong) most people that are entering the hobby or otherwise induced to changing their fixtures are heading toward LED. LED users should understand their hot/cold spots that MH or T5 users don't suffer. LEDs can be super noisy in PAR just inches left / right due to gaps or overlap.

Full disclosure: I run hybrid on my basement frag system. It is in the furnace room which runs warm already so 1600 watts of heat would require HVAC work I could not justify.
 

Reef Racket

Reef Racket LLC
View Badges
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Messages
283
Reaction score
240
Location
California
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
A quick paste:
Features:
  • This 24 inch light has legs that can expand to 34 inches
  • This light is controlled with a the Bluetooth in your Android or iOS (Apple) device (phone or tablet)
  • 32 watts
  • 25,000K color temp
  • At 3": PAR=376, LUX=16,290. At 12": PAR=90, LUX=3620. 1350 lumens.
  • IP67 Waterproof certified
  • Fluval part# 14515
This will be fine for all softies and some LPS if they are clearly lit. Perhaps some SPS if you put them up high on top of your rock. Start with the soft zoas etcetera. Then add a duncan. Then maybe a branching hammer (not a wall hammer). After a year+ add some montipora up high. If that lives then some acropora along the top.

Then upgrade (as all survivors do) when that lives.

There is a lot of intel here on R2R. Digest well before taking much action. Going slow and letting the biome do its thing is rarely bad advice.

It’s funny because I just checked the main website >>> https://fluvalaquatics.com/us/product/flex-aquarium-kit-123-l-32-5-us-gal-black/
And you can see that it now calls it the Aquasky part number 14549. However, I ordered the second light a few days ago from the Fluval website and the part number is 14513 >> https://fluvalaquatics.com/us/produ...or-flex-saltwater-aquarium-32-5-us-gal-123-l/

this is the confusion because if you check it clearly states that it is for the tank exclusively as it does not have adjustable arms/legs. Also if you check their products under lighting you will not find that light. At least I didn’t a few days ago. You had to click on the specific tank kit, then go to “spare parts” or “suggested” items that pertain to the tank kit itself. Super confusing and still don’t know the exact specs of the light I do have which is the 14513. Any ideas?

thanks for the info though it’s much appreciated!
 

ScottB

7500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
7,873
Reaction score
12,155
Location
Fairfield County, CT
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
It’s funny because I just checked the main website >>> https://fluvalaquatics.com/us/product/flex-aquarium-kit-123-l-32-5-us-gal-black/
And you can see that it now calls it the Aquasky part number 14549. However, I ordered the second light a few days ago from the Fluval website and the part number is 14513 >> https://fluvalaquatics.com/us/produ...or-flex-saltwater-aquarium-32-5-us-gal-123-l/

this is the confusion because if you check it clearly states that it is for the tank exclusively as it does not have adjustable arms/legs. Also if you check their products under lighting you will not find that light. At least I didn’t a few days ago. You had to click on the specific tank kit, then go to “spare parts” or “suggested” items that pertain to the tank kit itself. Super confusing and still don’t know the exact specs of the light I do have which is the 14513. Any ideas?

thanks for the info though it’s much appreciated!
Well that fixture is quoted at 42 watts versus 32 before so the direction of change is good. It really comes down to what corals you wish to keep. Just keep in mind when buying or positioning.

TBH, the chemistry/maturity of the biome matters more.
 

DHill6

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
2,433
Reaction score
1,578
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I wanted to check par, I also needed to get rid of equipment that wasn’t necessarily needed, as in 2 DOS, the par measuring device from same company with the wire, ugh. So, I sold those pieces off and purchased the Quantum 510. I’ve been purchasing Radion’s for the last few years, going back to gen3, I think. It’s nice to be able to pull one from the closet. I downsized tank down to a 34g and some gadgets just aren’t needed anymore. Glad to own one.
 

DHill6

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
2,433
Reaction score
1,578
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I wanted to check par, I also needed to get rid of equipment that wasn’t necessarily needed, as in 2 DOS, the par measuring device from same company with the wire, ugh. So, I sold those pieces off and purchased the Quantum 510. I’ve been purchasing Radion’s for the last few years, going back to gen3, I think. It’s nice to be able to pull one from the closet. I downsized tank down to a 34g and some gadgets just aren’t needed anymore. Glad to own one.
Correction..it’s the newer model with the correction for LEDS, not close to the closet to check (;
 
Back
Top