Will dosing bacteria to established tank outcompete older strains?

Cyanopatches

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I used Aquavitro Seed to cycle my tank. First time using bacteria in a bottle to cycle. Seed "contains both nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria, a blend found in no other product. Additionally seed contains facultative bacterial strains which are able to adapt to either aerobic or anaerobic conditions". Most other products seem to only contain nitrifying bacteria.

I can't get nitrate or phosphate to read unless I dose daily. It's been two years of dosing nutrients. Corals don't look "right". They grow though. A little. Not efficiently. I want to get back to a "normal" tank where nutrients steadily climb, you know?

Do you think there's an effective facultative strain of denitrifying bacteria that don't need anoxic zones to proliferate? Would dosing a different product outcompete the established bacteria? Thanks for helping.
 
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brandon429

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Nothing you add regarding other strains will outcompete your filter bacteria, experiment as you like

aquabiomics tests show that in a short time after beginning a reef with bottle bac, new and naturally selected strains have replaced all the originals anyway.
 

brandon429

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the reason I mentioned that action/safety above is because on another thread of ten pages we studied reported non ammonia control in running reefs, post cycle. all the variations of things people might do, and add to tanks, we studied patterns on free ammonia trending.

and the result is, not one aquarium I've ever seen failed to control its ammonia after the cycle and with no disease wipeout of fish + decay to cause ammonia. all reports are testing misreads or non TAN levels reports

meaning, barring fish loss ammonia always self manages after the cycle so therefore adding any bottle bac isn't going to undo it, we'd have come across that in our samples.

It takes something pronounced, matched and sustained to undo a tanks filter/cycle/bacteria such as multiple rotting fish.

here's that thread btw of studies to double check takeaways:
 
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Cyanopatches

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Nothing you add regarding other strains will outcompete your filter bacteria, experiment as you like

aquabiomics tests show that in a short time after beginning a reef with bottle bac, new and naturally selected strains have replaced all the originals anyway.
Hmm..... I see, I see. That would make sense. They would live together, most likely, maybe. Considering in the "Problems due to bacterial Imbalance, Aquabiomics test results" thread, over 400 bacteria types were found. Maybe I could add to the biodiversity.

Edit: over 400 bacteria types found in a single tank.
 
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Cyanopatches

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It takes something pronounced, matched and sustained to undo a tanks filter/cycle/bacteria such as multiple rotting fish.
If that's true, you'd be overwhelming the population. Correct? Well let's say I want to out compete denitrifying bacteria. Which I think is what's lowering my nutrients. Then the approach would be opposite? Starving it. Then starving my corals....or maybe aminos could keep them alive. But then I'm feeding bacteria probably, or they can hang out dormant and not die off. What about my fishes. Or these hypothesis could all be wrong. Trying to avoid a new tank here.
 
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brandon429

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its a valid question though, on the brightwell site their bottle bac says dont add to wet sand that may have competing bac


yet 99% of all the cycles we've collected are wet sand and bottle bac, always meeting production times listed before the build is even complete and for sure brightwell was 200 or so cycles within our group.

every time I see a bottle bac seller mention a suppression or stall or some consequence, it reminds me that we have never seen one stall in all the cycles collected and its just pages and pages handy to peruse for the details.

I bet on a cold glass slide the cells do battle lol but something about the context of an actual reef tank makes them not do anything but meet every time prediction we make.
 

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brandon429

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nevermind I re read, you arent having invasions its coral growth issues.


for that I'd lower white light levels, up the blue, and target feed each coral in the am for two months then reassess.

post a full tank pic sometimes little details stand out there that helps boost growth after changes
 
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Cyanopatches

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This should do. A filter was used.

20210802_163327.jpg
 
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Cyanopatches

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Where have my nutrients gone...they just disappear. These rocks have been "absorbing" phosphates for quite a while, over 2 years, surely they can give some back. Euphyllia don't expand or swell up fully you know? I lost a torched a while back, just got smaller and smaller.
 
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for that I'd lower white light levels, up the blue, and target feed each coral in the am for two months then reassess.
I've tried these things...Anything you can imagine that's reasonable I've probably tried. Target feeding reef roids gave me a lot of cyano, I probably went overboard. Had detectable phosphates after words though for about a day. Browned out monti caps became even more brown I remember.
 

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I would never use that though, reef roids


rods feed coral blend and reef energy never did any of that but you have go easy on the reef energy it’s potent. Feeding meats to the corals directly vs the water is powerful, and get up at 4 am when lps are active too helps. Place one drop in water wait ten mins, all feeders will be out bigtime, then spot feed. You can adjust your light periods to make dark access easier/ feeder tentacle time

a plan is shown above if growths happen due to feeding, that eliminates concern over gha and cyano now for sure, the rip clean option


but you can be inputting feed protein not powder, change water and keep the CPR action going for two months a few times a week and it will mass up, just like an exercise regimen

how many gallons is your tank
 

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I just scrolled up and saw that wow tank I’m shocked man. It’s golden good,

lower light intensity if things are bleaching or that tank above will be hard to troubleshoot as it looks awesome, but I know in person there w be small details you want fixed


as it sits that reef looks like the goal of any reef keeper around and maybe so good I don’t even like mine now.
 
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Cyanopatches

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rods feed coral blend and reef energy never did any of that but you have go easy on the reef energy it’s potent. Feeding meats to the corals directly vs the water is powerful, and get up at 4 am when lps are active too helps. Place one drop in water wait ten mins, all feeders will be out bigtime, then spot feed. You can adjust your light periods to make dark access easier/ feeder tentacle time

a plan is shown above if growths happen due to feeding, that eliminates concern over gha and cyano now for sure, the rip clean option


but you can be inputting feed protein not powder, change water and keep the CPR action going for two months a few times a week and it will mass up, just like an exercise regimen

how many gallons is your tank
Ok I understand what you mean. I have Acropower, I used it for a while, months. It did raise my nitrate levels but I got alot more hair algae. Don't remember seeing sps color or growth change but goniopora acted positively I remember. This was many months ago. I will look into the meaty foods. I used to feed Rod's nano, don't remember the effect on corals though.


I just scrolled up and saw that wow tank I’m shocked man. It’s golden good,

lower light intensity if things are bleaching or that tank above will be hard to troubleshoot as it looks awesome, but I know in person there w be small details you want fixed


as it sits that reef looks like the goal of any reef keeper around and maybe so good I don’t even like mine now.

It's an illusion. The filter made it look nicer. It's a 75 marineland high def ensemble. From petsmart for a couple hundred bucks that one. Sumpless. Tunze comline filter 3163 (475 gph) with a handful of biomax. Can't picture anoxic zones in there. Tunze 9004 Skimmer. Live stock and rocks were transfered from a 60 gallon cube that had about 1/2 inch sand bed. I thought moving into a new tank would solve the nutrient being utilized so fast issue.


Yes...There are small details...

But I've had success in the past coloring up monticaps...These are brown no matter what. Litterally dark brown, its crazy. Orange polpys though. I even bought a par meter this year to get an idea.

Frogspawn and Hammer have looked the same for two years. Sad looking. Not fully expanding. Not growing. Not dying. Color changes depending on lighting.

I've never seen pink on the shortcake. Just shades of green.

I'm using 12 ml BRS two part + magnesium a day. I was using around 8 ml bionic before the switch. That seems soooo low. Then again biological nitrate reduction adds alkalinity right?
 
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I used Aquavitro Seed to cycle my tank. First time using bacteria in a bottle to cycle. Seed "contains both nitrifying and denitrifying bacteria, a blend found in no other product. Additionally seed contains facultative bacterial strains which are able to adapt to either aerobic or anaerobic conditions". Most other products seem to only contain nitrifying bacteria.

I can't get nitrate or phosphate to read unless I dose daily. It's been two years of dosing nutrients. Corals don't look "right". They grow though. A little. Not efficiently. I want to get back to a "normal" tank where nutrients steadily climb, you know?

Do you think there's an effective facultative strain of denitrifying bacteria that don't need anoxic zones to proliferate? Would dosing a different product outcompete the established bacteria? Thanks for helping.
I would say that you might be starving your aquarium, nothing more. Could you dose nitrate or spot feed your coral?
 
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Cyanopatches

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I would say that you might be starving your aquarium, nothing more. Could you dose nitrate or spot feed your coral?
Hi I've been dosing nitrate and/or phosphate everyday for around 2 years now, as well as spot feeding powdered foods on and off. Both have had varying results. But dosing nutrients has had the most success.

I just thought by now they would have plateaued, or balanced and readily be available in the water column. That's how it works right? I keep reading people dosing and dosing until they reach a point where the dose becomes a lot lower or even stopping..

20210802_220904.jpg
 
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Hi I've been dosing nitrate and/or phosphate everyday for around 2 years now, as well as spot feeding powdered foods on and off. Both have had varying results. But dosing nutrients has had the most success.

I just thought by now they would have plateaued, or balanced and readily be available in the water column. That's how it works right? I keep reading people dosing and dosing until they reach a point where the dose becomes a lot lower or even stopping..

20210802_220904.jpg
You never stop feeding a dog or child, right? An aquarium is the same.

Maybe the idea is that you need to discover the steady state condition, where food going in is just a little higher than food being consumed and exported, resulting in a small excess of nutrients In the water. But the food input of that steady state increases as the inmates of your aquarium grow. That’s why I suggested that you were “starving“ your aquarium: there was no slight excess.
 
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Cyanopatches

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You never stop feeding a dog or child, right? An aquarium is the same.

Maybe the idea is that you need to discover the steady state condition, where food going in is just a little higher than food being consumed and exported, resulting in a small excess of nutrients In the water. But the food input of that steady state increases as the inmates of your aquarium grow. That’s why I suggested that you were “starving“ your aquarium: there was no slight excess.
Indeed. I feed 9 fishes at least twice a day. There's detritus all over the floor. The only time I can test detectable the next day is if I dose atleast .05 phosphates and 4 ppm nitrates. But the corals don't respond well. Zoas seem fine as well as goniopora. Feeding more hasn't gotten great responses either. Cyano patches on frag rack and high up on rock show up.

I believe some denitrifying bacteria is really effective in this tank. But where? Inside the reef saver rock? It's extremely dense.

Could the biomass of these corals really uptake that much nutrients that I can't even detect them? Then why aren't they thriving and reaching their potential?
 

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