Wound on Copperbanded Butterfly with parasites?

[rcmike]

Hello everyone. I recently bought a copperbanded butterfly and within a day it developed a small bump. After a couple more days it has developed into a sore and this morning is looking pretty bad. I did a scrape of the area and found a ton of organisms swimming around. The closest thing I could find was uronema but to me it looks a little different. Any ideas what it is and the recommended treatment? Btw, turn down your speakers on the video. My phone picked up a noisy fan on my well pump controller and amplified it.

 

[KJ]

Look like bacterial infection.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/bacterial-infections.191511/

 

[Humblefish]

^^ Agree; treat with this ASAP: http://store.nationalfishpharm.com/NFP-products-Nitrofuracin-Green-59584.Item.html

Or alternatively, Kanaplex + Furan-2 + Metroplex

 

[rcmike]

Cool thanks! I have the furnan 2 and metroplex but no kanaplex. I do have some neoplex though. Would that work instead?
Btw, what are the things in the video?

 

[lagatbezan]

^^ Agree; treat with this ASAP: http://store.nationalfishpharm.com/NFP-products-Nitrofuracin-Green-59584.Item.html

Or alternatively, Kanaplex + Furan-2 + Metroplex

^^
If you act quickly you will have a chance of saving him. Time is not on your side.

 

[rcmike]

^^
If you act quickly you will have a chance of saving him. Time is not on your side.

I have dosed the furnan-2 and Metroplex according to directions. I don't have the Kanaplex. Will the Neoplex help or do I need to try to get Kanaplex?

 

[Big G]

I have dosed the furnan-2 and Metroplex according to directions. I don't have the Kanaplex. Will the Neoplex help or do I need to try to get Kanaplex?

I would try to get either the Kanaplex (because the "trifecta" works really well together) or the Nitrofuracine Green Powder ASAP. I lost a CBB that looked very similar a few months back. Didn't have the meds quickly enough. Beautiful fish.

 

[lagatbezan]

I had success using the trifecta on a raccoon butterfly with similar symptoms but I was able to start the treatment as soon as symptoms manifested itself. I would use what you have for now, but definitely try to get your hands on kanaplex. I have no experience with neoplex. Maybe @Humblefish can say for sure.
make sure to add extra circulation facing the surface or an airstone to the qt since the meds tend to deplete the oxygen level.

 

[rcmike]

Ok. I'll see what I can do. The aggravating thing is I have tried a few other CBB over the years and they would hardly eat anything besides picking at the rocks and they would eventually waste away. This one is is a pig and will go after big chunks of food and rip it apart.

 

[Big G]

Here's another alternative from Humblefish's treatment reference: a combination of using both Erythromycin & Minocycline. The latter can be accomplished (albeit expensively) by using freshwater Maracyn 1 & 2 and then doubling the dosage for saltwater use.

 

[Big G]

The only other thing I can think of for a Sunday afternoon where finding meds is tough, would be to consider trying a bath in Ruby Reef Rally if you can find some today. It has both antibacterial and antiseptic qualities that could, could help a bit and maybe, maybe help give your fish some time until those other meds are available. The concern of course is the stress of handling your fish while so sick. CBBs can be very fragile to handle. The bath could hurt or help.

 

[Christoph]

Hi Mike!

How is the Chelmon doing?

The moving organisms shown in your microscopy slide are no bacteria, it looks more like ciliates. You could be very right with your uronema marinum diagnosis (+ likely an bacterial infection). Also the visible symptoms could arise from uronema. Good work you got a skin scrape for proper diagnosis.


@Humblefish, what would be the safest way to treat for uronema in addition to the antibiotics?

Best,
Christoph

 

[rcmike]

The only other thing I can think of for a Sunday afternoon where finding meds is tough, would be to consider trying a bath in Ruby Reef Rally if you can find some today. It has both antibacterial and antiseptic qualities that could, could help a bit and maybe, maybe help give your fish some time until those other meds are available. The concern of course is the stress of handling your fish while so sick. CBBs can be very fragile to handle. The bath could hurt or help.

I agree, I have had mixed results with baths over the years. I might just have to drive to Nashville. I was just there yesterday and it's an hour away. Wish I had known then but the spot didn't look that bad.

Hi Mike!

How is the Chelmon doing?

The moving organisms shown in your microscopy slide are no bacteria, it looks more like ciliates. You could be very right with your uronema marinum diagnosis (+ likely an bacterial infection). Also the visible symptoms could arise from uronema. Good work you got a skin scrape for proper diagnosis.


@Humblefish, what would be the safest way to treat for uronema in addition to the antibiotics?

Best,
Christoph

It's only been about an hour since medicating it but it actually does look a bit better. The fins don't have the streaking like they did before. Could be the yellow tint in the water from the furnan-2 though. He definitely isn't acting sick.
I thought it looked similar to uronema too. It's definitely a ciliate. I could see the cilia moving on them. Not sure of it showed up on the video.

 

[Big G]

I agree, I have had mixed results with baths over the years. I might just have to drive to Nashville. I was just there yesterday and it's an hour away. Wish I had known then but the spot didn't look that bad.



It's only been about an hour since medicating it but it actually does look a bit better. The fins don't have the streaking like they did before. Could be the yellow tint in the water from the furnan-2 though. He definitely isn't acting sick.
I thought it looked similar to uronema too. It's definitely a ciliate. I could see the cilia moving on them. Not sure of it showed up on the video.

Yep, you could see them.

 

[Big G]

Two of the above listed meds help treat Uronema. The acriflavine in Ruby Reef Rally or Acriflavine MS are suggested. And you should go with food soaked with Metro + Focus to treat the disease because it can spread into the internals.

 

[rcmike]

I’m headed to nashville to see what I can come up with. There is a reef club meeting at a LFS that I wanted to go to anyway.

 

[rcmike]

Ok, got some Kanaplex and Ruby Reef Rally. I've dosed the Kanaplex. What dosage would you recommend for the Rally bath? The directions are for use in a hospital tank. I'm assuming dosing with the antibiotics could cause trouble?

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish, what would be the safest way to treat for uronema in addition to the antibiotics?

Metronidazole (Metroplex) treats uronema, so that combined with Furan-2 & Kanaplex would be the OP's best bet.

Ok, got some Kanaplex and Ruby Reef Rally. I've dosed the Kanaplex. What dosage would you recommend for the Rally bath? The directions are for use in a hospital tank. I'm assuming dosing with the antibiotics could cause trouble?

I would administer Rally in a bath solution for 90 mins; 1 teaspoon per gallon.

 

[Big G]

Humblefish's guideline for acriflavine products. Note the underlined and bolded section "How to Treat" Hope this helps.

Acriflavine: This is an antiseptic that is very useful for rendering “first aid” if a fish has a bacterial infection or to treat an open wound. It can also be used as part of a “three step program” for treating Marine Velvet Disease: 5 minute freshwater dip, 75-90 minute acriflavine bath, and then prolonged exposure to copper or Chloroquine phosphate in a Quarantine Tank (QT).

There is also some anecdotal evidence that a 75-90 minute acriflavine bath, followed by transfer into a sterile Quarantine Tank can clear Brooklynella aka clownfish disease. However, until more research is done it is recommended to follow up the acriflavine bath by treating with metronidazole in the Quarantine Tank.

How To Treat – At present time there are two products on the market which contain acriflavine (dosage information below). Use either in a 75-90 minute bath, temperature controlling the water and providing plenty of aeration by using an air pump & air-stone. Ensure salinity, pH and temperature of bath & QT water match perfectly.

Acriflavine-MS: Add 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons of water.

Ruby Reef Rally: Add 1 ounce per 10 gallons of water. This breaks down to roughly 2/3 teaspoon of Rally per gallon if using less than 10 gallons.

Pros – Effective “pre-treatment” before fish is placed in QT with copper, antibiotics, etc.; milder/safer alternative to using formalin.

Cons/Side Effects – Turns the water an orange-brownish color, so probably not desirable for Quarantine or Display Tank use. Full range of positive effects and possible side effects are not completely understood at this time.

 

[rcmike]

Metronidazole (Metroplex) treats uronema, so that combined with Furan-2 & Kanaplex would be the OP's best bet.

I would administer Rally in a bath solution for 90 mins; 1 teaspoon per gallon.

Thanks. Would you recommend waiting on the Rally since I'm already using metroplex?

Humblefish's guideline for acriflavine products. Note the underlined and bolded section "How to Treat" Hope this helps.

Acriflavine: This is an antiseptic that is very useful for rendering “first aid” if a fish has a bacterial infection or to treat an open wound. It can also be used as part of a “three step program” for treating Marine Velvet Disease: 5 minute freshwater dip, 75-90 minute acriflavine bath, and then prolonged exposure to copper or Chloroquine phosphate in a Quarantine Tank (QT).

There is also some anecdotal evidence that a 75-90 minute acriflavine bath, followed by transfer into a sterile Quarantine Tank can clear Brooklynella aka clownfish disease. However, until more research is done it is recommended to follow up the acriflavine bath by treating with metronidazole in the Quarantine Tank.

How To Treat – At present time there are two products on the market which contain acriflavine (dosage information below). Use either in a 75-90 minute bath, temperature controlling the water and providing plenty of aeration by using an air pump & air-stone. Ensure salinity, pH and temperature of bath & QT water match perfectly.

Acriflavine-MS: Add 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons of water.

Ruby Reef Rally: Add 1 ounce per 10 gallons of water. This breaks down to roughly 2/3 teaspoon of Rally per gallon if using less than 10 gallons.

Pros – Effective “pre-treatment” before fish is placed in QT with copper, antibiotics, etc.; milder/safer alternative to using formalin.

Cons/Side Effects – Turns the water an orange-brownish color, so probably not desirable for Quarantine or Display Tank use. Full range of positive effects and possible side effects are not completely understood at this time.

Thanks, I was searching through everything but hadn't quit found it yet.