Wound on Copperbanded Butterfly with parasites?

[Humblefish]

@rcmike If the trifecta doesn't diminish the red spot in a day or so, I would give the fish either a 5 min FW dip or 45 min formalin bath. And then transfer the fish into a new/sterile QT, and resume dosing Kanaplex + Metroplex + Furan-2 to finish uronema + bacterial infection off.

 

[Humblefish]

Thanks. Would you recommend waiting on the Rally since I'm already using metroplex?

I would still go ahead with the Rally bath. It contains two antiseptics + a small amount of formalin, all of which would be beneficial here. The fish probably needs some temporary relief until the 3 meds you are dosing in the QT can kick in.

 

[rcmike]

Ok, got him in a Rally bath now. Not sure if I will be able to leave him in for the whole 90 minutes since it's late and I have to get up early tomorrow. I guess some is better than none though. He does look better to me than he did at first I think. He definitely won't give up without a fight.

 

[Deinonych]

Hi Mike!

How is the Chelmon doing?

The moving organisms shown in your microscopy slide are no bacteria, it looks more like ciliates. You could be very right with your uronema marinum diagnosis (+ likely an bacterial infection). Also the visible symptoms could arise from uronema. Good work you got a skin scrape for proper diagnosis.


@Humblefish, what would be the safest way to treat for uronema in addition to the antibiotics?

Best,
Christoph

Agreed. Almost without a doubt the microorganisms shown in the micrograph are Uronema marinum.

http://www.vetbook.org/wiki/fish/index.php?title=Uronema_marinum

 

[Humblefish]

Great, uronema is now expanding to other species.

 

[Deinonych]

They can infect pretty much any species. We just tend to see them more on chromis and anthias...likely due to collection methods (overcrowding, poor water quality etc.)

 

[rcmike]

It's not looking too good right now. This morning he didn't eat much but looked pretty good. I got home from work early about 3 hours ago and he was breathing a little heavy. I just checked on him and now he is laying on the bottom breathing really heavily. I checked the ammonia just to be sure and didn't detect any. I also have quite a bit of air going into the tank. Any ideas?

Great, uronema is now expanding to other species.

If there is one fish in a million with some weird malady I can find it.

They can infect pretty much any species. We just tend to see them more on chromis and anthias...likely due to collection methods (overcrowding, poor water quality etc.)

I also wonder if it's more common but most people don't use a microscope to check? They just assume it's a bacterial infection and move on.

 

[zed102]

@rcmike I wish I could offer some advice, but I have never been able to save a fish once they showed symptoms of Uronema. I expect that any treatment would have to include internal treatment of the fish. Unfortunately I have not been able to get enough metro soaked food into a fish to test since they almost always perish within a few days. Did you have this fish with anything else before seeing the signs?

 

[rcmike]

@rcmike I wish I could offer some advice, but I have never been able to save a fish once they showed symptoms of Uronema. I expect that any treatment would have to include internal treatment of the fish. Unfortunately I have not been able to get enough metro soaked food into a fish to test since they almost always perish within a few days. Did you have this fish with anything else before seeing the signs?

Unfortunately he died about 5 minutes after my last post. He was alone in QT. I just got him a few days ago.

 

[Deinonych]

I also wonder if it's more common but most people don't use a microscope to check? They just assume it's a bacterial infection and move on.

Possibly. I read somewhere (can't find the source readily) that Uronema marinum is thought to be part of normal aquarium fauna. It's a free-living organism and feeds primarily on bacteria and other microfauna as part of decomposition. It only becomes a problem when water quality deteriorates and a fish is otherwise compromised. My theory is that Uronema and bacterial infections go hand in hand. That is, a fish gets an infection and Uronema multiplies as an opportunistic parasite and compounds the problem.

 

[rcmike]

Possibly. I read somewhere (can't find the source readily) that Uronema marinum is thought to be part of normal aquarium fauna. It's a free-living organism and feeds primarily on bacteria and other microfauna as part of decomposition. It only becomes a problem when water quality deteriorates and a fish is otherwise compromised. My theory is that Uronema and bacterial infections go hand in hand. That is, a fish gets an infection and Uronema multiplies as an opportunistic parasite and compounds the problem.

I can believe that. I am really surprised more marine aquariests don't use microscopes to diagnose parasites. I am into koi keeping as well and the first thing they say when you suspect a parasite is to "scrape and scope" to find out what you are dealing with. It is a little easier to do it with a two foot fish than a tiny, delicate butterfly but if you are careful you can do it without injuring the fish.

 

[Christoph]

Sorry for your loss!

I also think that microscopes (and the knowledge how to use them to pinpoint parasite diagnostics/ algae identification etc) should be far more widespread among marine aquarists. I would opt for a sticky thread to collect microscope images/videos of commonly encountered parasites also stating the level of magnification to make it easier for others to compare.

Best,
Christoph

 

[rcmike]

Sorry for your loss!

I also think that microscopes (and the knowledge how to use them to pinpoint parasite diagnostics/ algae identification etc) should be far more widespread among marine aquarists. I would opt for a sticky thread to collect microscope images/videos of commonly encountered parasites also stating the level of magnification to make it easier for others to compare.

Best,
Christoph

Thanks, the most upsetting thing was how well he was eating at first.

I agree on a microscope picture thread. The main reason I wasn't sure on the diagnosis was that I couldn't find many microscopic pictures of parasites. Diagnosing koi diseases is relatively easy because pictures of the parasites are pretty easy to find.