Writing code to pause a skimmer during top off?

[chaostactics]

I'm trying to have my skimmer shut down for a little bit when my ATO is running because the influx of freshwater sometimes destabilizes the skimmer causing it to flood.

I thought I could have something like the following code.

If ATO Closed* Then OFF
Defer 002:00 Then ON

But it gives me an error when attempting to upload that code


*Note: "Closed" state is triggered when water level in the sump is low.

 

[chaostactics]

Resolved!
I had been typing the defer code wrong. However, I got the defer code correct and then ran into another problem. Every time the skimmer would restart it would drop the sump level momentarily as the skimmer body took up water, which of course triggered the ATO again. NBD the sump stabilizes after 10-30 seconds and the ATO turns off.

However this was putting the skimmer into a constant on-off state as skimmer came on, dropped sump level, activatedATO which shut down the skimmer, skimmer drained and refilled the sump, turns off the ATO, skimmer defers 2 mins, comes back on and drops the sump level, ATO kicks on again. You get the picture.

A MIN time command fixed the entire issue. See attached.

 

[willtheld]

you could also go based off the outlet,

if output ATO on then off

2 ways to make a cat skinless

id personally though investigate why your ATO is causing that. I can't say mine has ever been affected by the ATO but I've never noticed it. is your ATO output to close to the intake of the skimmer maybe?

 

[chaostactics]

The way I had it, which I changed at 130 in the morning yesterday despite knowing better than to make major changes after 10 pm or more than 1 beer, was that my top off water came in upstream from my skimmer. I've now switched it so the top off water comes in one chamber downstream from my skimmer.

User SunCrestReef on the community forms figured it out!
I needed a virtual outlet to solve my other issues.


"Most people just use a single Defer Then ON timer on the skimmer so no matter what reason it was turned off (feeding, return pump, float switch, etc) it will always wait a few minutes to turn back on once that condition has cleared. Here’s an example of that approach:

Fallback OFF
Set ON
If Output Return_Pump = OFF Then OFF
If Power Apex Off 001 Then OFF
If FeedA 000 Then OFF
If FeedB 000 Then OFF
If SKMLKR OPEN Then OFF
If ATOBUP OPEN Then OFF
Defer 002:00 Then ON



If you really only want to delay after the return pump turns on but not for other reasons, you could create a separate virtual output to act as a timer, then have the skimmer check that output:

[Skimmer_Delay] — virtual output
Set ON
If Output Return_Pump = ON Then OFF
Defer 002:00 Then OFF

[Skimmer]
Fallback OFF
Set ON
If Output Skimmer_Delay = ON Then OFF
If Power Apex Off 001 Then OFF
If FeedA 000 Then OFF
If FeedB 000 Then OFF
If SKMLKR OPEN Then OFF
If ATOBUP OPEN Then OFF

Any time the Return_Pump is OFF, the Skimmer_Delay output will be ON. Then once the Return_Pump is turned back ON, the timer will count down for 2 minutes before turning Skimmer_Delay back OFF. "

 

[DaneGer21]

I’m really wondering why your skimmer would overflow, if anything your skimmer should loose it’s foam head with the addition of freshwater. Sounds like your ATO is pumping to much to fast and raising your sump level to much.

 

[Kryptonian]

Freshwater can definitely make a skimmer bubble up more (maybe bubble up isn't the right description, but it dumps excessive water into the cup). Does it on both of my tanks so feel ya there. Second option (which I'm doing) to avoid skimmer popping on off on off on off would just be to make the ATO deposit into the return pump chamber and bypass the skimmer. My apex atk flips on once an hour. On that schedule, your skimmer would turn off 24 times per day. Seems like a lot. You might have a different experience with your skimmer but when I do maintenance or turn it off temporarily for any other reason, I normally have to do minor tuning when it powers back on.

 

[DaneGer21]

Freshwater can definitely make a skimmer bubble up

Hmm, I’ve always seen the opposite with the addition of freshwater, same as feeding the tank, or putting hands in, always kills the foam head.

#reefsquad

 

[Kryptonian]

Hmm, I’ve always seen the opposite with the addition of freshwater, same as feeding the tank, or putting hands in, always kills the foam head.

For the 75g, whenever I do a water change, I'm running through the cup three or four times then it slows and I'm doing 1 cup for a whole week.
On the 180, when I do a 10% change, I open up the skimmer all the way and still get a cup pretty quickly, then it normally slows.
I've never noticed any effect through feeding or hands in the tank. Also not using additives with water changes, I know API stuff or Nopox blows up skimmers on their own.

Regardless, my point was only to say moving ATO to deposit post-skimmer could relieve the problem whether freshwater is the cause or not.

Is reefsquad more of an emergency thing? Haven't done that before.

 

[chaostactics]

I’m really wondering why your skimmer would overflow, if anything your skimmer should loose it’s foam head with the addition of freshwater. Sounds like your ATO is pumping to much to fast and raising your sump level to much.

I'm running 2 Sicce Micra Pumps that are pH-controlled (one pumps fresh one pumps kalk water) for my ATO and running them with relatively little head. They do typically overfill the sumps "average operating volume line" a little each time they kick on, however, the overall salinity shift it minimal and it leads to less cycling of the ATO pumps.

Freshwater doesn't increase foam production but does increase water height within the skimmer body causing the skimmer cup to fill (technically my skimmate locker to fill)

 

[chaostactics]

For the 75g, whenever I do a water change, I'm running through the cup three or four times then it slows and I'm doing 1 cup for a whole week.
On the 180, when I do a 10% change, I open up the skimmer all the way and still get a cup pretty quickly, then it normally slows.
I've never noticed any effect through feeding or hands in the tank. Also not using additives with water changes, I know API stuff or Nopox blows up skimmers on their own.

Regardless, my point was only to say moving ATO to deposit post-skimmer could relieve the problem whether freshwater is the cause or not.

Is reefsquad more of an emergency thing? Haven't done that before.

I have since moved my ATO effluent lines downstream of my skimmer. Wich should resolve that issue and moved my probes upstream from ATO effluent.

 

[Kryptonian]

Well maybe it is just your water level changing too quickly and I have something else going on.. My sump water level never changes so maybe just the newly mixed salt has some affect.

Either way, nice logic on the code. I might borrow some of that on my Apex for other issues.

 

[chaostactics]

Freshwater can definitely make a skimmer bubble up more (maybe bubble up isn't the right description, but it dumps excessive water into the cup). Does it on both of my tanks so feel ya there. Second option (which I'm doing) to avoid skimmer popping on off on off on off would just be to make the ATO deposit into the return pump chamber and bypass the skimmer. My apex atk flips on once an hour. On that schedule, your skimmer would turn off 24 times per day. Seems like a lot. You might have a different experience with your skimmer but when I do maintenance or turn it off temporarily for any other reason, I normally have to do minor tuning when it powers back on.

I haven't logged my on-off events for my ATO to see how often it triggers. I would have to guess mine cycles 4-6 times a day... maybe 8 if the doors of the house are being open and closed frequently.