You think AEFW is bad? Pycnogonid infestation!! Is my tank doomed?

[Scotty Buttons]

Someone on RC said they had luck with a six line wrasse demolishing a plague of sea spiders.

 

[eamike261]

Please don't shut down the tank right away. There has to be something that will work and it would be great if you would give a few things a try before you toss it all. Are they even eating the coral or just bothering them by eating the mucus or something, the damage looks like they are just irritated?
Why not try the interceptor in the tank at twice the strength? Interceptor is completely fine to use, your pod population will bounce back very quickly as well. This is way easier than shutting down the tank. Also if you experiment with a few dips, revive, coral rx, and try melafix, maybe you can find the one that works the best. Great pictures by the way, sorry you had to go through this. It would be a good one to post in the sps forum.

Thanks! I definitely don't plan to shut down immediately. I spent several hours last night cutting down their population to slow them down.

They are definitely eating the SPS (acros and birdsnest) because I can see very visible bite marks and necrosis on some frags. It is not apparent yet how fast the Acan was being eaten but it did look irritated for several days before I dipped.

People on the forums are scaring me off Interceptor, I can't tell if it's a good or bad idea... seems like people have strong opinions about it. As of right now I only own Coral RX but I do need to buy a couple other dips. Originally I was going to post it on the SPS forum until I saw them happily sucking on Acans.

FWIW, they seem to have very particular tastes. Birdsnest and PC Rainbow taste a lot better than Green Slimers, I guess.

Perhaps try either https://www.uwcmn.com/purge-in-tank-aefw-treatment

Or the expel dip.

They are new perhaps might help with sea spiders no idea though.

ime i had them survive both seachem Reef Dip and bayer dips. But i only had them on frags. And i didnt add them to the system for awhile after i found them. Did something resembling ttm except using dt water for the wc. Frags were easier to control by removal as no rock work to hide in. used a lot of flow in the qt so they would be less likely to latch on(in my mind anyway lol) and each day changed 100% water. Before added to the DT looked at each frag carefully to make sure i saw no spiders left.

Good suggestion, I actually JUST finished the full Purge treatment because I thought I had AEFW, so I can say confidently Purge does not impact them.

Good to know. Coral RX seems to kill them pretty effectively. 90% of them die in 2-4 minutes. The biggest full size adults seem to survive in the dip for up 10 minutes but they certainly let their grip go in less than 5 minutes. I shake them off in clean saltwater to and check with magnifying glass to make sure they don't go back in the tank. Luckily, I don't have any massive colonies so it's relatively doable for me.

 

[eamike261]

Someone on RC said they had luck with a six line wrasse demolishing a plague of sea spiders.

Any chance you'd have a link? Were they zoa spiders or more like the sea spiders I have?

 

[Scotty Buttons]

There was no picture but they said they had a mixed reef.

 

[Kremis]

I would honestly give interceptor a shot, its basically a crustacean killer. Iused it for red bugs a few years ago, took care of them as well as some cleaner shrimp I had in the tank.... nothing else was harmed though.

Otherwise, yeah a wrasse would probably take care of these guys real quick

 

[Graffiti Spot]

I would honestly give interceptor a shot, its basically a crustacean killer. Iused it for red bugs a few years ago, took care of them as well as some cleaner shrimp I had in the tank.... nothing else was harmed though.

Otherwise, yeah a wrasse would probably take care of these guys real quick

I agree, don't listen to the people who thought interceptor was a bad idea. I use it in my reef after collecting a lot of corals just to make sure no red bugs slipped through. I don't even do a water change after I use it, just add a bag of carbon and turn the skimmer back on.

 

[ca1ore]

Meh .... maybe it's just me, but I'd NEVER add those kinds of chemicals to my tank. I always look for a biological control first.

 

[Subsea]

@eamike261

I said dip individual rock in peroxide. If you have substrate in display, then you have a biological filter independent of your live rock.

What cycle or you talking about?

 

[Subsea]

Meh .... maybe it's just me, but I'd NEVER add those kinds of chemicals to my tank. I always look for a biological control first.

When I added Melanarius Wrasse to 75G Jaubert Plenum with 6” sandbed, the unintended consequence was a declining micro invert detrivore crew that took three years to crash a 25 year old dsb.

I agree about treating with chemicals inside a display tank. I have Red Planaria that are resistant to Flatworm Exit.

 

[erk]

I've used Interceptor before and would recommend it as a last option. I was forced into using it when the acro eating bugs, not sure if they were black or red, become out of control. I tried biological methods, aka natural predators, but it wasn't enough to stop the population growth. I tried dipping as well, this only slowed them down briefly. They came back within a couple months. A single round of interceptor wiped them out completely and I haven't seen them since.

Word of advice on using Interceptor, it will kill ALL crustaceans. So if you do a tank treatment, which sounds like you will have to, I recommend removing all your crustaceans you want to keep alive. I did this for my hermits, boxing shrimp, and such. I kept them in a 5 gal bucket for the handful of days. Then put them back 24 hrs after turning on the skimmer and doing a water change. Expect a die off and depending on age of the tank, this can be bad enough to nuke the tank.

 

[afuel]

I had a zooanthid eating spider once it looked different than what you have it had an overall thicker body and legs. Found him while blasting detritus with turkey blaster. Had been having sections of zooanthid colony stay closed up and didn’t know why. Tried to suck him in turkey blaster but like you I found that hip grip was strong and wouldn’t let go. I got him with tweezers and then lived in panic mode for a couple of weeks but luckily for me I have never seen another. And my zooanthids now live in peace. I had 3 flasher wrasses in the tank and one yellow coris in the tank at the time so maybe they helped but I can’t confirm but sure seems unlikely that I would have had one spider and no eggs waiting to open. I’ve read that the eggs get deposited inside the zooanthids

 

[Katrina71]

Why shut it down right away? What an opportunity to do a little trial and error. Document it well. There will be another reefer down the road with the same issue.

 

[UWC]

If you are interested in sending us some, we would be more then happy to do some breeding and testing with them

 

[John A!10]

Neon dottyback!!

 

[ca1ore]

When I added Melanarius Wrasse to 75G Jaubert Plenum with 6” sandbed, the unintended consequence was a declining micro invert detrivore crew that took three years to crash a 25 year old dsb.

OK, so if the OP is running a DSB in his tank, go for the house bag …… otherwise …...

 

[eamike261]

I agree, don't listen to the people who thought interceptor was a bad idea. I use it in my reef after collecting a lot of corals just to make sure no red bugs slipped through. I don't even do a water change after I use it, just add a bag of carbon and turn the skimmer back on.

I've used Interceptor before and would recommend it as a last option. I was forced into using it when the acro eating bugs, not sure if they were black or red, become out of control. I tried biological methods, aka natural predators, but it wasn't enough to stop the population growth. I tried dipping as well, this only slowed them down briefly. They came back within a couple months. A single round of interceptor wiped them out completely and I haven't seen them since.

Word of advice on using Interceptor, it will kill ALL crustaceans. So if you do a tank treatment, which sounds like you will have to, I recommend removing all your crustaceans you want to keep alive. I did this for my hermits, boxing shrimp, and such. I kept them in a 5 gal bucket for the handful of days. Then put them back 24 hrs after turning on the skimmer and doing a water change. Expect a die off and depending on age of the tank, this can be bad enough to nuke the tank.

Thanks for the info. Good to here other people's experiences and process with Interceptor. It would definitely be a full tank treatment if I used it. For now I'm not going to use it but that may change in the near future...

I had a zooanthid eating spider once it looked different than what you have it had an overall thicker body and legs. Found him while blasting detritus with turkey blaster. Had been having sections of zooanthid colony stay closed up and didn’t know why. Tried to suck him in turkey blaster but like you I found that hip grip was strong and wouldn’t let go. I got him with tweezers and then lived in panic mode for a couple of weeks but luckily for me I have never seen another. And my zooanthids now live in peace. I had 3 flasher wrasses in the tank and one yellow coris in the tank at the time so maybe they helped but I can’t confirm but sure seems unlikely that I would have had one spider and no eggs waiting to open. I’ve read that the eggs get deposited inside the zooanthids

Ugh I've seen those in other posts, they look extremely creepy!

Why shut it down right away? What an opportunity to do a little trial and error. Document it well. There will be another reefer down the road with the same issue.

I definitely won't shut down immediately. I'm trying to document my experience but at the same time I'm kind of freaking out and trying to rid them ASAP.

If you are interested in sending us some, we would be more then happy to do some breeding and testing with them

I wouldn't mind trying! I've never tried to ship livestock before. I may have trouble removing them alive since they hold on so tight in regular saltwater, whereas the dip kills them. And I just genocided a bunch for hours last night so I'm not sure how many are around right now (going to keep a close eye).

Assuming I can get a handful of them isolated in saltwater, do I just tie off a bag with water and ship it a regular cardboard box?

 

[eamike261]

Neon dottyback!!

Interesting, would it need to be Neon Dottyback? Would an Orchid Dottyback and others eat pests too?

When I added Melanarius Wrasse to 75G Jaubert Plenum with 6” sandbed, the unintended consequence was a declining micro invert detrivore crew that took three years to crash a 25 year old dsb.

I agree about treating with chemicals inside a display tank. I have Red Planaria that are resistant to Flatworm Exit.

Yes I have been a mildly concerned about adding a wrasse since I only have about 1-2cm sandbed, it's not very deep and I do have some corals placed down in the sand that I wondered if it might knock around.

 

[Subsea]

Interesting, would it need to be Neon Dottyback? Would an Orchid Dottyback and others eat pests too?



Yes I have been a mildly concerned about adding a wrasse since I only have about 1-2cm sandbed, it's not very deep and I do have some corals placed down in the sand that I wondered if it might knock around.

He will knock over corals in sandbed & he will nibble at live clams. You will have zero detrivores in your substrate. Vacuumed sandbed when doing partial water change.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Interceptor does not kill ALL inverts in a healthy mature tank. Maybe in a new tank with a small population of bugs it could, but not a mature tank. I have had skunk cleaners and peppermints survive the treatment and be fine two days later, with all red bugs gone. It doesn't completely wipe out all pods or arthropods. Some survive and the population grows back to the same numbers quicker than you would imagine in a well fed tank. It does kill all red bugs if done right though. I only use one treatment as well since they give birth to live bugs and don't lay eggs there is no need unless you want to be positive two for piece of mind. Which most people do because they want to trade corals with confidence. But this thread is about the spiders. I would just try it in a gallon of water with an infected piece and document the strength you need. If it works, use it. There are a lot of people who want things to be as natural as possible.

 

[jason142]

I've had them a couple of times in my 180. IMO they are much easier to treat then AEFW. I treated with interceptor, pretty strong and rigorous dosing. I did a whole tablet of the chewable for the big dog for 24 hours and did a 10% water change. Retreated 2 days after water change for another 24 hours and another 10% water change. 3rd treat 2 days after second treat for another 24 hours with another 10% water change. Remove all carbon while treating. After the second time of having these spiders I have not seen another one since the second time, hope this helps.