frankdontsurf
Community Member
What Corals should we obtain?
Corals to be banned and it will be illigal to own them.
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typicalwhiteazn
Active Member
Yep...hoard the heck outta of them, if they pass it you're sitting on a goldmine! Just gotta figure out how to move it on the reef black market... otherwise, if it doesnt pass, well then you have a very nicely furnished reef. Disaster averted!
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jt17
Valuable Member
I have owned CITIES appendix 1 plants for over 20 years and I have inspectors from plant industry in my greenhouse every year. Never once have they showed any concern over ownership or propagation of such species. I know corals are different and their inspectors may know more about them but they are not concerned with these things. Enforcement will during importation and not in our living rooms. Remember CITIES is about the international trade of endangered species so this is bad news for the chop shop growers and not as bad news for aquaculturists.
I am not one for more regulation but if our actions are having a significant impact on the populations of these corals then we do need to back off of these species and better propagate those that we already have. Problem is if the CBD doesn't follow suit then they just end up in tanks everywhere else but the US.
I am not one for more regulation but if our actions are having a significant impact on the populations of these corals then we do need to back off of these species and better propagate those that we already have. Problem is if the CBD doesn't follow suit then they just end up in tanks everywhere else but the US.
dwilliams87
Valuable Member
I've got mixed feelings on the subject. I know that's different than the views I've seen thus far, but if there really is a danger to extinction, maybe we should quit taking them out of their natural habitat. I understand that in some cases our tanks could be better for them. But I don't believe, IMO, that is the majority. I'm not particularly worried about them becoming illegal to own, that would be much too difficult for them to monitor. It would make selling them online almost impossible, but someone said it best when they said "It ain't illegal until you get caught". I don't want anyone to regulate what I can purchace or own in my little piece of the ocean, but if it is better for the species, I'm all for it.
Aquaph8
Love The Fish
Biggest problem I have is that this discussion is just like any other political debate these days. Everybody on both sides is really one sided and there's never a grey area. There becomes a point where the collection of some of these corals and Im sure fish need to be protected regardless of how much we love them, problem is the people making the bills would just as well shut down the entire hobby rather than protect what needs to be protected. On the other hand I do think there are many species that we could stop collecting so much of due to how easy they are to aquaculture. I see wild stuff come in all the time that looks just like stuff we've had in this hobby for years. Just like clownfish and a few of the other fish we readily breed, why keep collecting it?
dwilliams87
Valuable Member
+1 Aquaph8 - very well said.
OP
OP
What people don't get is this is not the govement doiing this. Our government has to abide by what ever is decided.
Why is this happening? There are groups trying to shut this hobby down. Some of these groups even had some of their funding from the reef hobby . These lobbyist groups have lots of money and a unified voice. As a hobby we do not have a voice. Some here even think this is a joke. They will eventually get what they want. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
This is going to happen and if people read the addendum there are more corals to be added.
Will this affect the hobby?
Not so much at first, you will not find any of these corals forsale or ones that resemble them which will cause pressure on other corals causing prices to rise. Later more corals will be added and then more till the hobby is over except for the extremely rich and very few corals will be available.
Some of us will get permits but eventual tank crashes or coral deaths will cause the hobby to shrink. A black market will develop.
What can stop this?
We get organized .
Why is this happening? There are groups trying to shut this hobby down. Some of these groups even had some of their funding from the reef hobby . These lobbyist groups have lots of money and a unified voice. As a hobby we do not have a voice. Some here even think this is a joke. They will eventually get what they want. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
This is going to happen and if people read the addendum there are more corals to be added.
Will this affect the hobby?
Not so much at first, you will not find any of these corals forsale or ones that resemble them which will cause pressure on other corals causing prices to rise. Later more corals will be added and then more till the hobby is over except for the extremely rich and very few corals will be available.
Some of us will get permits but eventual tank crashes or coral deaths will cause the hobby to shrink. A black market will develop.
What can stop this?
We get organized .
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jt17
Valuable Member
Does MASNA have PAC?
Mike J.
2500 Club Member
I have to agree whole heartedly with the last post. I've been stressing this same sentiment for years. It's really not a joke.
We in the hobby need to get proactive; the animal rights activists are.
One example is you'll get more jail time for molesting a dog or cat than you will a human. The world is getting to the point of: What is wrong is cool and what is right is wrong.
Some of these animal rights groups are even listed as terrorist organizations. I know, I was on an antiterrorism team in the Marine Corps.
Most of us in the hobby care for our pets. Be careful what animal rights group you help fund.
We need to step up. Ask yourself, "Did I step up and comment on this new legislation when I had the chance?", I did.
We in the hobby need to get proactive; the animal rights activists are.
One example is you'll get more jail time for molesting a dog or cat than you will a human. The world is getting to the point of: What is wrong is cool and what is right is wrong.
Some of these animal rights groups are even listed as terrorist organizations. I know, I was on an antiterrorism team in the Marine Corps.
Most of us in the hobby care for our pets. Be careful what animal rights group you help fund.
We need to step up. Ask yourself, "Did I step up and comment on this new legislation when I had the chance?", I did.
dwilliams87
Valuable Member
I do not mean this rudely, but what do you propose we do? Unfortunately, in our country, the man with the most money and power wins. I'm not saying we should give up, but wasn't it already said that this was a done deal?
Aquaph8
Love The Fish
I completely agree Dave, all Im saying is that instead of being anti activists we need to fight this a few different ways by showing that we are making efforts to do our part, that we can compromise on species that need protecting and prove that we're not the uncaring people the activist want to brand us as. They just write those bills, they don't pass them. If we're gonna fight this we need groups doing the right stuff not just people arguing back and forth about statistics.
flowflezy
Valuable Member
Some of the corals on there grow so fast I don't understand why they are on there. I started with one hammer head and same as a frog spawn now have over 20 of each. I think the hobby has enough corals to keep the trade going so just stop collecting wild corals. And haven't they been doing coral farming in the wild now? I know they did some in the keys a little bit ago. We need to do something.
frankdontsurf
Community Member
How?
I'm new to the hobby. I'm still stocking my first tank, I'm still learning the differences in corals and their care. I can really care less about keeping fish, to me they add a little spice to the eye-candy. I want to get involved, I'm not planning to abandon this hobby. I'm a minimalist so I've actually been cannibalizing my other habits to make a better investment into this one.. So again, how do we get organized? What do I as an individual have to do?
Blake11rebel
Active Member
I'm all for trying to save endangered coral! There are several ways to do that. The main one is to find out whats making them endangered in the first place, which is obviously global warming. We all know how important it is to keep our reefs temp constant. I think the permit thing is a terrible idea but If I cant have a sunset montipora so be it. There are plenty of other corals we can fill our tanks with. They will still be sold or given from hobbyist to hobbyist but not in LFS. Congress could work on a bill to prevent further harm to the environment, but there pockets are full of big oil money from lobbyist. I'm loosing faith in what our Gov't cares about. This isnt just one President or House Rep. its all of them and will probably remain that way.
How I agree with this being a scary thing that could happen, isn't it also true that these corals are at greater risk of extinction by staying in the oceans by poorly regulated industrial islands and increased acidification of the same oceans...
So if we could take the endangered species and fund organization like the coral restoration foundation as the oceans became a much less hostile place for the corals they could be replanted .... Right?...this type of government involvement is never good since the government only sees short term goals not long term solutions....
So if we could take the endangered species and fund organization like the coral restoration foundation as the oceans became a much less hostile place for the corals they could be replanted .... Right?...this type of government involvement is never good since the government only sees short term goals not long term solutions....
Mike J.
2500 Club Member
You had to bring global warming into this equation? Are you falling for that hype? Mother Nature will adjust to the major problems pointed out by reef watchers; which are temperature, storms, lack of sea urchins in one case, too many Crown of Thorns in another.
Let's take the Caribbean for example. Pollution is the number 1 problem with corals. The waste and sewer run off is causing massive algae growth which kills the coral. Now they've proven that viruses are causing massive die offs; along with the already known bacterial infections of corals.
I worked as a marine biologist twenty years ago and pollution was the number one problem then. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the waste discharges or industrialization near coral reefs are having a major impact.
So for one thing we can cry out aloud that the pollution has to stop.
Viruses indicted as "white plague" coral killers ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
Let's take the Caribbean for example. Pollution is the number 1 problem with corals. The waste and sewer run off is causing massive algae growth which kills the coral. Now they've proven that viruses are causing massive die offs; along with the already known bacterial infections of corals.
I worked as a marine biologist twenty years ago and pollution was the number one problem then. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the waste discharges or industrialization near coral reefs are having a major impact.
So for one thing we can cry out aloud that the pollution has to stop.
Viruses indicted as "white plague" coral killers ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
cdness
2006 - Present
We all need to contact legislature and let them know our opinions. There was a letter you could use to send awhile back as well as a petition and area to voice your opinion. We need to stand together and make our voices heard.
Not getting too deep into politics, they are right that whoever has the money wins. I refuse to support animal rights groups for this fact that they have gone to the extreme. It is sad to see all this money going to lawsuits and lobbying against an industry that has helped increase awareness about the reef issues as well as help investigate breeding techniques and propagation techniques that can one day replant the reefs.
Not getting too deep into politics, they are right that whoever has the money wins. I refuse to support animal rights groups for this fact that they have gone to the extreme. It is sad to see all this money going to lawsuits and lobbying against an industry that has helped increase awareness about the reef issues as well as help investigate breeding techniques and propagation techniques that can one day replant the reefs.
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