Don't be fooled...Please.
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your probably right. those flower pots never stay alive. Thanks G
cthedaytrader
Active Member
come on we all know the all american coral is all lighting and photoshop.
Under normal lighting it really looks like this
(sorry for taking this from Cherry Corals lol, I do love thier corals though lol)
Bad lighting?
Under normal lighting it really looks like this
(sorry for taking this from Cherry Corals lol, I do love thier corals though lol)
Bad lighting?
SeattleReef
Community Member
Thanks Scott, I've called vendors on this and the complaint fell on deff ears. I've stopped buying from them. Hope those that read this wise up. Integrity is what we are talking about here.
Good post.
Good post.
OP
OP
Okay...glad to have a dissenting opinion.
First of all, YEAH dude, I am using this as a sounding board. When vendors engage in practices that affect the public perception of my industry, I tend to take notice and I DO want to alert consumers to this type of stuff. It's unprofessional, distasteful, immature, and I can go on and on. And guess what, opinion is what I'm going to express. I will not stop expressing my opinions just because they are not popular, or viewed negatively by some people..or even if they are perceived as arrogant. The beauty of our country and these forums is that you can express opinions...That's what it's all about.
I appreciate that you feel that my overall "substance" is "moronic.." This tells me that I have reached you. And guess what- I DO pontificate in my posts because this is my forum, and I often tell you that something is based on MY experience, or MY opinion. I'm glad that you question my experience and knowledge of corals. You SHOULD. You should question everyone on an online forum. And guess what? That's okay. And guess what? I see a LOT of corals everyday. I see good, bad, and outstanding. I see more than the majority of reefers ever will, simply because my company deals with thousands of them...Does that make an "expert", by virtue of the fact that I've seen and handled lots of corals? OF COURSE NOT! I once had a professor in college that said an "expert" is someone who knows more and more about less and less." I know a little about a lot of things. I DO consider myself an expert on ME, and I write about things that are of interest to me..and apparently, to many of my readers. I don't do it to give myself or my company glory. I do it because i enjoy it.I even enjoy having discourse with people who feel that my writing is "moronic." It's very healthy. I suggest that, if you don't like what is being discussed in my forum, that you frequent another..OR, better yet, start writing your own stuff..It's not that hard, as you have apparently indicated, based on your review of my apparently lame "body of work." So go for it. There is plenty of room for multiple opinions!
Yes, I rant about coral prices. I rant about them because, although I am a great lover in the free market, I think that the consumer needs to understand how things are priced, and that there is some sort of method to it. I don't agree with many of the practices I see in the industry, and I don't run my company in that manner. And guess what? If someone wants to pay obscene prices for something that they can get elsewhere for less, that's their prerogative. But guess what? I am entitled to my opinion just like I welcome yours. You may not like it. That's okay..that's what makes our nation great. Trust me, I'm a capitalist.
I don't know who you're referring to, and really don't care. Trust me, we sell plenty of pricy pieces, as does every vendor out there. But I agree with you. Some corals are more expensive than others due to supply and demand, and relative difficulty in obtaining them, etc.- and thus warrant a higher price. I have no quarrel with you there. I disagree with your opinion that pricing is relative. What I "rant" (yeah, I do) about is the absurdity that arises when vendors offer hyper-expensive prices for a commonly available coral as if its made of platinum. At the end of the day, I can only affect my coral pricing, and can only warn my fellow hobbyists about practices that I disagree with or find distasteful.And guess what, you should too..In fact, you're doing it now, stating that what I'm stating is distasteful..Good for you!
As for a "cowardly warning", I understand your desire for me to talk smack about specific vendors, people; to name names. But guess what? That's not what I'm here for...That's not what this is about. It's about opening people's eyes to practices that are potentially detrimental to them. It's not my place, purpose, or intent to "call out" people. It's to WAKE THEM UP. I'm not running TMZ here. I express OPINIONS based upon my experiences, viewpoints, and observations. "Tough guy" hiding behind the keyboard...Hmm, I think United Airlines will disagree with you..I think I've given over 300 talks around the country in the last 7 or 8 years, and spoken at numerous MACNA and RAP conferences where- guess what- I presented opinions that were sometimes not popular. Does that mean I'm an "expert?" No, it just means people apparently like to hear what I say..and some of it ain't pretty or popular, either. Although, my 40 years of experience with the hobby at least gives me the right to be grumpy.I don't hide behind a screen name or a keyboard. You shouldn't, either. It is NOT my place to act as an industry watchdog or to trash talk people. I do consider myself a responsible business person, long time member of the reefing community, and hobbyist, which means I'm going to provide information, opinions, and insight to my fellow hobbyists. Why? Because I CARE. I'm giving general warnings based on specific incidents that I have seen. Remember, it's opinion, as I state repeatedly. Apparently, you do too, which I think is great. Honestly, it's nice that we are having a discourse..In fact, I think we are more on the same page than we think. The difference is that I like to write a lot. So please, cut the "tough guy behind the keyboard" talk...besides, that's so played out in forums.
I completely agree with your comments on color of the lighting and substrate. However, a lot of people don't quite get it. Again, just trying to help people make informed decisions.
What vendors am I attacking? Did I name names? No I didn't, did I. I'm attacking a PRACTICE that I feel is unethical and distasteful. And, YOU are somewhat, ahem- "moronic", as you would say- if you don't think that i should use my own experiences as an example in my own forum. I'm apparently so jaded in my views that I haven't posted a single "look at our latest update" post since September, so I'm the LAST guy you should be calling foul on because maybe I said something (factual) positive about my own company in my own forum. Guess what? People say nice stuff about my corals. They also say it about Cherry Corals, Worldwide Corals, Battle Corals, Joe Knows Reefs, Live Aquaria, etc. etc. etc., and I say it too when i see these quality vendors and others. I'm using MY experience yet again. I don't live in some bubble thinking that my company is the greatest thing in the world and that everyone else sucks. THAT is moronic. I've talked about mistakes my company has made, screw ups in shipping, husbandry, pest control, nutrient management, system design. An almost unprecedented dossier for a vendor. Are we perfect? No. Not even close. I do know that we engage in practices that we feel are among the best out there, and our consumer base seems to agree. I have, on numerous occasions in this forum, praised other vendors (yeah, I "named names", too!) for their good work. So, in summary- do I like my own company? Um, yeah. Do I think it's the "bees knees?" It's getting there, lol.
I'm happy that you seem to have a handle on the business practices of all vendors, including mine. Very important. I agree once again with you, though about telling a seller if you don[t like something. That's the only way people improve. Feedback is vital. I ask for it all the time, as you know, because you've read all of my "moronic" posts...I don't understand what you mean about "repeat buyers." I think that you're implying that I am upset because my customers buy corals elsewhere? Not sure. Why would I be upset about that? Do you really believe that I'd expect my customers to be 100% loyal to me and only buy from my company? C'mon, get real. That would be plain stupid. I myself buy from others, so your theory is a bit off. To answer your question, I'm not sure HOW some of these people stay in "business." However, I spend very little time worrying about my competitors- save for my comments based on good and bad experiences with them. I subscribe to what is known as "Blue Ocean Theory" in strategic business development- you might enjoy it. It essentially espouses creating uncontested market space. I'm more concerned about correcting the screw ups that my own company does than I am about leading a crusade against all evil. I will always point out my opinions in these opinion blogs- it's what I enjoy. I'm actually quite satisfied, very well adjusted, and generally not as cranky as my writing persona apparently implies. I hate jerks. I hate cheaters. I hate intellectually dishonest hype mongers. But on the whole, I like people. I DO, as you point out, get "angry" about some things. Generally, those things are practices and beliefs that I feel hurt hobbyists. Call me crazy. Or moronic. Whatever.
So, without writing "War and Pece" here (I couldn't if I tried, because my writing is too "moronic" as you correctly assert), I will summarize: We agree on some things, disagree on the fact that I won't name names.. I don't live in a glass house, and I'm not throwing stones, although we seem to disagree on that..We are both lovers of capitalism, I'm just a bit less tolerant of hype than some. I know a guy that I called "ONE" of the best photographers in the world (not THE best), and I'm generally happy. I still hate intentionally abusive photo editing, and strongly oppose things that degrade our hobby- as you do, too.
So, it's all good. I said my peace. You said yours. I need to take care of my customers now..Thanks!
Scott
OP
OP
New marketing. all american coral.
I think I can get behind that campaingn, LOL.
Jonreefer
Valuable Member
Photoshop is useful. Shooting under certain lights is hard to give the color its showing. So I photoshop all my photos to my best to try and match how they look in the tank. This is something that MUST be done to get a true pic especially under LED because the camera sensor has some issues with LED because of the very narrow color being emitted unlike MH/T5. WB isnt the best when it comes to these colors we run our tanks at. So photoshop in general is NOT a bad thing. Its a tool to help mimic what the coral looks like to our eyes in the tank to compensate on how the sensor and metering and WB of the camera captured the image. The same can be said though for someone taking photos of their corals under SUPER blue lights and it glows like no tomorrow but if someone throws it in a tank at like a 14k temp it doesnt look anywhere near as nice. So what the person saw in the photo was a true representation of the coral just under very blue lights so the same can be said for that aspect as well. So you cant blanket and say photoshop is BAD.
This photo of mine is photoshopped but its for to show a representation of my coral in my tank.
This photo of mine is photoshopped but its for to show a representation of my coral in my tank.
FishLipz
Cheap and Easy Reefer
32 posts, half of which are in another vendor's forum. Cue the minions! All vendors pay for their space on this forum and are entitled to use it the way they see fit. It's up to us as consumers to stop buying from vendors that don't live up to our expectations. The free market will weed out the good from the bad.
OP
OP
Photoshop is useful. Shooting under certain lights is hard to give the color its showing. So I photoshop all my photos to my best to try and match how they look in the tank. This is something that MUST be done to get a true pic especially under LED because the camera sensor has some issues with LED because of the very narrow color being emitted unlike MH/T5. WB isnt the best when it comes to these colors we run our tanks at. So photoshop in general is NOT a bad thing. Its a tool to help mimic what the coral looks like to our eyes in the tank to compensate on how the sensor and metering and WB of the camera captured the image. The same can be said though for someone taking photos of their corals under SUPER blue lights and it glows like no tomorrow but if someone throws it in a tank at like a 14k temp it doesnt look anywhere near as nice. So what the person saw in the photo was a true representation of the coral just under very blue lights so the same can be said for that aspect as well. So you cant blanket and say photoshop is BAD.
This photo of mine is photoshopped but its for to show a representation of my coral in my tank.
Excellent, excellent point and demonstration. And you're right, Photoshop is not bad. Editing is necessary to "clean up" pics...It's the ABUSE of it that I cannot handle.
Again, outstanding point.
Daniel@R2R
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It's unfortunate that Photoshop is used to abuse consumers. As has been pointed out in the post above, lighting conditions do cause difference in the way a coral looks from one tank to another, but shame on sellers (commercial or hobbyists) that use photo editing to make their coral look like it never could in any tank under any light (great point, Scott!). Also, the above post is definitely spot-on that some photo editing is almost always necessary to get the picture to look like what the naked eye sees.
On the flip side, I'm so tired of seeing people ask for pictures of corals under lighting that they would never think about keeping the coral in (6500k pics come to mind). Any coral looks brown under some lights. As a buyer, I wanna see what it will look like in my tank...plain and simple.
On the flip side, I'm so tired of seeing people ask for pictures of corals under lighting that they would never think about keeping the coral in (6500k pics come to mind). Any coral looks brown under some lights. As a buyer, I wanna see what it will look like in my tank...plain and simple.
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OP
OP
Another great point...Hard for a lot of people to visualize what a coral will look like in their tank under almost and other lighting scenario than the one that they use! LOL
b_rad_G
Active Member
The Photoshop problem isn't just vendors. Take a look in the prop corals forum and you don't have to look very far. Its a problem and its amazing how the companies or people can still sell anything. I also love how corals that are blue or purple are taken under 20k but if the coral is red or yellow the same 20k light looks like 12k in the pics. The seller will state all pictures under 400 watt radium with actinic supplement.....but the light color is completely different!
The hype is also dumb. I'm sorry but when an acro frag sells for 300$ something is wrong. You can't blame the vendor on this cause I would love to chop up any coral for that money!
The hype is also dumb. I'm sorry but when an acro frag sells for 300$ something is wrong. You can't blame the vendor on this cause I would love to chop up any coral for that money!
Alabamareef
Well-Known Member
sexycorals
Bringing Sexy BACK!!
yea especially with july 4th around the corner.
kovfunk22
Community Member
Hahahaha
OP
OP
Yeah, nothing like seasonal pricing...
jedimaster1138
Community Member
Yeah Scott. Swing that sword. Love it. You've nailed my 2 biggest complaints in this hobby in the last couple weeks - sticking a fancy pants "LE Uber Limited ZOMG EPIC BBQ" label on a coral and tripling the price, and Photoshopping pictures into looking alien. In my opinion you could be harsher about both practives if you wanted to be and I'd have no problem with it, especially the photoshop issue. I just love it when I see egg crate in photos that's glowing orange/pink/blue. Yeah, that picture wasn't in post longer than the Avengers movie...
It's not so hard is it? This is why I shop at Unique and a few other vendors now so much and avoid certain others who shall rename nameless because they import their pictures and immediately slide the SATURATION doodle all the way to the end.
Shoot in RAW
Import into LightRoom
Set white balance
Profit.
It's not so hard is it? This is why I shop at Unique and a few other vendors now so much and avoid certain others who shall rename nameless because they import their pictures and immediately slide the SATURATION doodle all the way to the end.
Shoot in RAW
Import into LightRoom
Set white balance
Profit.
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