Fish-in cycle (Kaveman Aquatics) style.

[Mfarley4]

Hey guys! Started my AIO 20g cube. Attempted Fish-less cycle awhile back. Failed and came across a popular way to cycle fish-in using seachem prime and stability. To sum up where i am now, i bought two clownfish from saltwater aquarium. They came alive and healthy. Its been only a few days. Ammonia-0 along with rest of readings. Ph is about 7.6/7.8. Salinity is 1.025/26.
The fish havent explored tank yet. They stay at the front bottom part of tank. They swim that front low area. They sleep with each other in the sand (how sweet) lol. They have only came halfway up to tank. Really only when they eat. I have to usually bring food down to them. Is that behavior normal?? It seems like they have trouble swimming up? Maybe they just have to adjust. They are also super small. Like little babies

 

[KrisReef]

My tank raised clownfish behaved the same way for the first month they were in my tank. I added some additional fish (they were never alone in the community tank) and they now are almost eating from my feeding cup when I put food in for the tank.

I have 8 or 9 large bubble nem clones and they have not wandered into them after 6 months of sharing the same tank. I plan to catch them and will put a small clone in a “Shu” box for them to discover when I get home next week. I am tired of waiting for them to start tending the nems which have been wandering a bit lately and I want them all to settle in before disaster strikes (blocking the overflow or finding a powerhead). But they do act like you described but the fish have moved into a hiding place near the return line at the surface for many months now after sleeping in the low spot, also up front.

 

[Mfarley4]

My tank raised clownfish behaved the same way for the first month they were in my tank. I added some additional fish (they were never alone in the community tank) and they now are almost eating from my feeding cup when I put food in for the tank.

I have 8 or 9 large bubble nem clones and they have not wandered into them after 6 months of sharing the same tank. I plan to catch them and will put a small clone in a “Shu” box for them to discover when I get home next week. I am tired of waiting for them to start tending the nems which have been wandering a bit lately and I want them all to settle in before disaster strikes (blocking the overflow or finding a powerhead). But they do act like you described but the fish have moved into a hiding place near the return line at the surface for many months now after sleeping in the low spot, also up front.

Thanks for the reply! I am hoping they just take some time to adjust to the new tank. I would love to see them out and about. Ive heard that clownfish can act strange and like to camp in one spot and be totally fine. In the future I definitely want some nems. By any chance do you think my flow could be to strong? They look like they struggle to swim where current is.. i dont even have my wavemaker on because i assume its to much. I have a video but it says its to large to post

 

[Spare time]

Prime does nothing for ammonia.

 

[Mfarley4]

Prime does nothing for ammonia.

It detoxifies ammonia, nitrite and heavy metals. Making it safe for the fish

 

[Spare time]

It detoxifies ammonia, nitrite and heavy metals. Making it safe for the fish

It does not. There is an extensive thread on here about it

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

It detoxifies ammonia, nitrite and heavy metals. Making it safe for the fish

NO. IT. DOES. NOT!

Why do new members ALWAYS dismiss those of us who reply when we tell you the truth about prime?? We actually know what we're talking about about, lol.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

And, @Mfarley4 , when your clownfish survive, remember that this does not mean they didn't suffer while you did your fish-in cycle.
Make sure you have enough rock and other biomedia in the tank, and please add a bottle of Fritz Turbo Start (or Biospira if you can find it). Stability will likely not have enough bacteria to do a proper job.

 

[Mfarley4]

It does not. There is an extensive thread on here about it

NO. IT. DOES. NOT!

Why do new members ALWAYS dismiss those of us who reply when we tell you the truth about prime?? We actually know what we're talking about about, lol.

Im not dismissing. How am i supposed to know your a platinum member. Im learning how to work this page. We are all beginners at some time. Jeez. Im always open to being educated. And yes i have biomedia, live rock, sand etc. and use additional bacteria starter

 

[Naekuh]

Prime binds to it, make it temporarly inactive.
Its suposed to give your nitrifying bacteria enough time to break it down, before it becomes active again and harmful.

So your like a fraction correct...

Its at best a bandaid to buy time incase of a unknown spike.... but if the spike is too large, even giving yourself time will not save you.

NO. IT. DOES. NOT!

Why do new members ALWAYS dismiss those of us who reply when we tell you the truth about prime?? We actually know what we're talking about about, lol.

Because a lot of us came from freshwater, and somehow like a cult, we all believe prime removed ammonia and chlorine.

In a reef tank, you'd have to be a massocist to use tap water, hence prime is pretty much useless here, unless its to buy you some time, or somehow you got chlorine showing up in your test from insufficient drying of filter socks after a bleach soak.

 

[Mfarley4]

Prime binds to it, make it temporarly inactive.
Its suposed to give your nitrifying bacteria enough time to break it down, before it becomes active again and harmful.

So your like a fraction correct...

Its at best a bandaid to buy time incase of a unknown spike.... but if the spike is too large, even giving yourself time will not save you.

Good to know! Thank you!

 

[Lavey29]

Im not dismissing. Im learning how to work this page. We are all beginners at some time. Jeez. Im always open to being educated. And yes i have biomedia, live rock, sand etc. and use additional bacteria starter

Fish in cycles are cruel to the animals and you just fried their gills with ammonia. If you could not even do a simple fishless tank cycle why would you think burning fish gills will make it easier for you. Yes, everyone is new at the beginning but that does not mean you could not educate yourself to the hobby adequately before starting your tank.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Prime binds to it, make it temporarly inactive.

NO. IT DOES NOT!!!

PLEASE STOP SPREADING FALSE INFORMATION!

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Prime binds to it, make it temporarly inactive.
Its suposed to give your nitrifying bacteria enough time to break it down, before it becomes active again and harmful.

So your like a fraction correct...

Its at best a bandaid to buy time incase of a unknown spike.... but if the spike is too large, even giving yourself time will not save you.



Because a lot of us came from freshwater, and somehow like a cult, we all believe prime removed ammonia and chlorine.

In a reef tank, you'd have to be a massocist to use tap water, hence prime is pretty much useless here, unless its to buy you some time, or somehow you got chlorine showing up in your test from insufficient drying of filter socks after a bleach soak.

Prime is a dechlorinator, nothing more. Coming from freshwater does not excuse ignorance once you've been told of the research that proves prime does nothing for ammonia!

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Good to know! Thank you!

That is false.

 

[Naekuh]

Prime is a dechlorinator, nothing more. Coming from freshwater does not excuse ignorance once you've been told of the research that proves prime does nothing for ammonia!

Sigh... my ignorance comes from Seachem direct.

Seachem - Prime

www.seachem.com

Prime® may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. It contains a binder which renders ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate non-toxic, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them.

Prime® works by removing chlorine from the water and then binds with ammonia until it can be consumed by your biological filtration (chloramine minus chlorine = ammonia). The bond is not reversible and ammonia is still available for your bacteria to consume. Prime® will not halt your cycling process.

I am going to assume that you were using a liquid based reagent test kit (Nessler based, silica). Any type of reducing agent or ammonia binder (dechlorinators, etc) will give you a false positive. You can avoid this by using our MultiTest™ Ammonia kit (not affected by reducing agents) or you can wait to test, Prime® dissipates from your system within 24 hours.

OK, so you wanna start a class action lawsuit against seachem then?
Because im pretty sure they would not have included that without some facts, otherwise said lawsuit incoming.

This is again coming straight from seachem.
Unless a pHD in Organic Chemistry can please explain the redox, or someone can go against the many chemist at seachem, this is what we are told.

NO. IT DOES NOT!!!

PLEASE STOP SPREADING FALSE INFORMATION!

Excuse me if i take Seachem's word over yours.
Even then if it makes you feel better, id probably still take seachem's world over Randy's, unless someone can prove the actual redox, because this is seachem, and again im fairly sure they would NOT have included that without legal repurcusions.

Again I said it does NOT get rid of Ammonia, but it binds to it, making it safe for a time frame, so your biological can handle it before it becomes toxic again. Which is exactly what the discription says, and what we are taught over in fresh water with seachem (prime / safe).

We are even taught to use a bit of prime when acclimating bee shrimp because you can not just plop them in without a less then 50% mortality and require at least a 4 hour slow drip.

So we use prime / shrimp prep, to neutralize the ammonia, while its dripping.

Shrimp Prep is by Brightwell, and its basically the same thing. So its Seachem + Brightwell your going to have to convince me against.

Brightwell Aquatics - ShrimpPrep

www.brightwellaquatics.com

Brightwell Aquatics - Erase-CL

www.brightwellaquatics.com

Erāse-Cl is not meant to be considered a substitute for maintaining adequate filtration equipment/methods or the care thereof, however it can be utilized as needed in the prevention of ammonia or nitrite from irritating sensitive aquarium inhabitants.

 

[Mfarley4]

That is false.

Can you post the link and statistics so i can see where this info is coming from

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sigh... my ignorance comes from Seachem direct.

Yes, that misinformation does come directly from Seachem and no one should be blamed for believing it. Folks should be able to trust manufacturers. Sadly, that is not always the case. We have seen that repeatedly with companies having to pull products or change descriptions after giving clearly incorrect information.

There's a very detailed experimental thread here where folks do many kinds of test to evaluate the Seachem claim, even doing things Seachem says will work (e.g., how to test the effect) and it comes up short.

Does Prime actually "Detoxify" free ammonia, NH3?

This started when @Dan_P was looking at measuring NH3 with seneye and was curious about performance near zero NH3. I suggested trying Prime to artificially zero out the NH3 sensor, and the results were weird... so I checked with my seachem kit. Prime by Seachem is commonly used to treat tap...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Can you post the link and statistics so i can see where this info is coming from

See the thread above. There are other associated discussions in other threads, such as how toxic ammonia really is, that lead many folks to conclude it "worked" when doing nothing would also have worked.

How toxic is ammonia, really?

In the context of trying to understand why so many people believe Seachem Prime was useful for them in an elevated ammonia situation, against the data in the link below about Prime potentially doing nothing to free ammonia in seawater, the question arises, why...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Excuse me if i take Seachem's word over yours.
Even then if it makes you feel better, id probably still take seachem's world over Randy's, unless someone can prove the actual redox, because this is seachem, and again im fairly sure they would NOT have included that without legal repurcusions.

No offense taken. One should always be skeptical of any claims without supporting evidence.

I suggest you read the thread I posted and then we can continue to debate if warranted.

OTOH, you say many chemists at Seachem,? Do they currently have ANY chemists? It's especially sad if they do.
I recently pointed out to Seachem an obvious flaw in one of their claims (hydroxide does not boost alkalinity), and documented their tech rep response (link below), even after carefully explaining the issue to them. The same discussion caused Brightwell to pull a similar product from the market after their own testing proved their product did not do what they claimed (raising pH and not alkalinity).

Do not rely on Seachem to decide what your reef needs

As part of an effort to rid the reefing world of false claim products, there is now a lengthy thread in the Chemistry forum where I am documenting efforts to put pressure on manufacturers and vendors to clean up their act. In some cases, the company responses are noteworthy and I don't want...

www.reef2reef.com