High Alkalinity what does it really cause

[CavalierReef]

Thanks for the advice. Think I'll go the low alkalinity water change route.

 

[WaderJames1983!]

If I may interject and ask a few questions. My tank is growing zoa's and soft corals fine, however whenever I add sps usually colonies they slowly are turning brown and then eventually losing their flesh (turning white) and then I must discard them. I run and ATS, and a skimmer. I have zero nuisance algae that I can see. The only parameters I have measured are Cal, Alk, and salinity. I'm assuming my nitrates and Po4 are not high, because no algae issues and I use Natural sea water for water changes/ rodi for top off. Calcium is 400, alk near 11, and salinity 1.023-1.024. Any ideas what could cause me to lose color and leaving SPS dying?

My guess is either not enough nitrates/Po4 so my system is too clean and thus possibly due to my high ALK burning my sps to death.

Perhaps my Ph is low and I have to much CO2 in my house so a CO2 scrubber may help to raise the PH.

Also, I'm not sure why my Alk is so high when I'm using Water from the ocean...

Any thoughts?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think measuring nitrate and phosphate is a good next step, but it may not be a chemical issue at all.

 

[WaderJames1983!]

Hey thanks for the quick response. I went ahead last night and checked all the paramaters I had tests for. Hanna checker read PO4-.05 , and API nitrate tested somewhere between what seemed 80-160ppm of Nitrate. I double checked the test kit to see if that was right, my drinking water which is filtered at my work (I live on a small island in the pacific so there isn't any other clean water sources) and its nitrates where 5-10ppm.

So, I'm at a loss for why my nitrates are so high. Allow me to think outloud and maybe you can direct me to where the issue might be. System is 153 DT with 30ish sump.

I installed an up flow ATS 2 weeks ago, and in order for the screen to start out growing algae well I turned off my skimmer for those 2 weeks. ***Potential issue #1? Perhaps that caused my nitrate to sky rocket, and it is just a matter of skimming and the turf scrubber to get the levels back down?

Also, considering the 16:1 ratio of PO4 to nitrate...Could the phosphates be too high which is causing the nitrates to be elevated? So instead of worrying about nitrate I need to figure out what my PO4 issues might be...I am running a BRS dual GFO/Carbon reactor, however I stopped the GFO since a lot of my SPS where browning out and dying. I am running both chambers as carbon only. Didn't want to strip all the nutrients out of the water column and potentially cause the coral to be either malnourished or being burned from too clean of water.

My ATS did produce algae which I cleaned off for the first time and my skimmer is running since I tested NO3 yesterday.

Last thought was maybe it's not a nitrate/Po4 issue but a CO2 issue?? Would potentially adding a CO2 reactor bring down the CO2 in my tank, which does have, as I understand a relationship with Nitrate and Po4 as well...?

Thanks so much!

 

[WaderJames1983!]

I think measuring nitrate and phosphate is a good next step, but it may not be a chemical issue at all.

What do you think of the above mentioned issue? Thanks Randy!

 

[WaderJames1983!]

I think measuring nitrate and phosphate is a good next step, but it may not be a chemical issue at all.

Hey Randy, I am trying to see if you might have any idea of my high nitrates from the above mentioned data. I have done two 30gal water changes this week. Testing the Ocean source water for nitrates and they read nearly zero....My tank however is reading 80 or higher. I have an upflow ATS and Skimmer running...I would think my nitrate would be going down. My fish seem happy and corals are good, except sps of course all die. I'm just trying to see if its possibly high CO2 level in the home and if I added a Co2 scrubber to my skimmer if that would help adjust Ph and maybe lower my Nitrates?? Just confused about what my issue could be... Thanks.

 

[Ralllyant]

Get the nitrate sorted? Keeping sps now?

 

[Kayanarka]

Hey Randy, I am trying to see if you might have any idea of my high nitrates from the above mentioned data. I have done two 30gal water changes this week. Testing the Ocean source water for nitrates and they read nearly zero....My tank however is reading 80 or higher. I have an upflow ATS and Skimmer running...I would think my nitrate would be going down. My fish seem happy and corals are good, except sps of course all die. I'm just trying to see if its possibly high CO2 level in the home and if I added a Co2 scrubber to my skimmer if that would help adjust Ph and maybe lower my Nitrates?? Just confused about what my issue could be... Thanks.

I am no expert for sure, I am a noob. What I have read is the way to lower Nitrates is through water changes, feeding less food, cleaning up waste by siphoning the waste directly during water change. You may want to do 10% water changes each day until nitrates come down, and make sure there is nothing dying in your tank, dying fish or algae.

Nitrates come from the end of the amonia/nitrite/nitrate cycle, so your really trying to control the things that create amonia like fish waste, left over food, dying fish ect.

 

[rahjehtahtjdplh]

There are a variety of things that high alkalinity does.

First, it increases the likelihood of precipitation of calcium carbonate on things like pumps, heaters, and sand.

Second, it spurs some hard corals and coralline algae to grow faster since getting enough carbonate can be a rate limiting step in calcification (skeletal growth).

Finally, some SPS corals in a very low nutrient environment with high alkalinity may suffer "burnt tips", which might be due to the tissue being unable to keep up with the skeletal growth, leaving very thin tissue which might be more susceptible to burning by high light/UV levels.

Corals that have issues with alk swings may be suffering from a temporary mismatch between their ability to take up bicarbonate and the internal demand for it.

precipitation of calcium carbonate on things like pumps, heaters, and sand? Is this a film or residue? Will this ruin the pumps? My alk stays around 14 and I would like to know if this is going to cause long term issues.

 

[MnFish1]

precipitation of calcium carbonate on things like pumps, heaters, and sand? Is this a film or residue? Will this ruin the pumps? My alk stays around 14 and I would like to know if this is going to cause long term issues.

Assuming your test is correct (at 14) - ic could cause multiple issues - including the ones you mentioned.

 

[vetteguy53081]

precipitation of calcium carbonate on things like pumps, heaters, and sand? Is this a film or residue? Will this ruin the pumps? My alk stays around 14 and I would like to know if this is going to cause long term issues.

Cc is not only unsightly but can be of harm to reef system and inhabitants. High alk can damage your equipment such as heaters, pumps, and filters and stain glass. When calcium builds up on these parts due to the elevated numbers, the residue can burn out your motors. Additionally, when calcium builds up quickly on the equipment, it’s no longer available to the living organisms within the tank causing further issues with calcium reduction and ph swings.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

precipitation of calcium carbonate on things like pumps, heaters, and sand? Is this a film or residue? Will this ruin the pumps? My alk stays around 14 and I would like to know if this is going to cause long term issues.

It can cause pumps to seize up.

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

Not usually.. It may encourage skeletal growth of corals by reducing phosphate and may increase precipitation of calcium carbonate on and near the GFO, but the changes in alk (and calcium) are usually low enough to not be a concern.

Alkalinity lowers phosphate? Interesting.

 

[Bitcoin Reefer]

No problem. I've answered well over 100,000 reef chemistry questions in the past 20 years, so I'm used to it and have seen most possible questions already.

What a beast. Lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Alkalinity lowers phosphate? Interesting.

That’s not what I was saying. GFO lowers phosphate and can also lower alkalinity.

 

[Judson_f]

Was attracted to this old thread due to researching my recent issue, and 'high alkalinity, what does it really cause'

All my parameters have remained stable until an alkalinity spike that i couldn't find. E.G.
May 24:
Temp: 80 F
pH 8.0
Salinity: 1.025
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrate: 10ppm
Phosphate: <0.1
Alkalinity: 14.5 !!! dKH

I have a neon green toadstool from JF - love it. very pretty. And two zoa colonies that needed somewhere to stay in my tank. Glued them to some extra frag rubble I had lying around. And a couple stones in front of the main rock the toadstool is on.

Toadstool closed entirely, for over a month. Zoa's were melting inexplicably as every other zoa in my system was doing grand. I use instant ocean reef crystals (can be known for higher alk) maybe that was the issue? Temp was on the warmer side maybe that was the issue?
I use RODI water i purify at home. Simple reading somewhere said check your source water, if it's hard, your water is the issue. If it ISN'T - its got to be something in the tank raising it. When i read that it just clicked - i know my water is neutral and good (7 stage RODI) i hunted amazon for the few frag rubble rocks i put in the system and sure enough. Calcium bicarbonate stone. I called home and told family to immediately remove the rubble rocks and for the first time in a month - i mean within 30 min - toadstool opened back up. got home and cut zoa's from rocks and gave new home, i'm talking about MAYBE 6 little stones. Largest maybe 3x3 inch. Soared the alk like that. The zoa's are recovering quickly and i'm hoping they make a full comeback, I guess being glued directly to the rock was tough on them. The toadstool had been sitting about 3 inches behind and 2 inches above the little pile of that rubble and was that negatively affected by it. I didn't have any pump or precipitation issues i believe due to the fact it had only been that high for about a month.

All calcium bicarbonate rock was removed yesterday - today is a 20% water change. Full panel of tests. I've only been in the hobby for 9 months so I'm only saying what i actually saw happen & the effects. But I am absolutely not running high alkalinity after seeing the health effects it seemed to have on my corals lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

All calcium bicarbonate rock was removed yesterday -

Do you have a link to it? I suspect it is not calcium bicarbonate. That's a very unusual material.

Calcium carbonate is not typically a reason for alk to rise. It cannot dissolve into normal seawater unless the pH is very low (below about 7.7).

 

[Judson_f]

Do you have a link to it? I suspect it is not calcium bicarbonate. That's a very unusual material.

Calcium carbonate is not typically a reason for alk to rise. It cannot dissolve into normal seawater unless the pH is very low (below about 7.7).

Hopefully that link works, my work computer can be a pain.

Like i said before still new to the hobby and can't really give facts/ but can definitely say what happened in my tank! lol altho re-reading it says calcium carbonate - not bicarbonate. Prob mis-spoke on my end i apologize! Like i said - still new! lol

 

[Judson_f]

Calcium carbonate is not typically a reason for alk to rise. It cannot dissolve into normal seawater unless the pH is very low (below about 7.7).

aaannnnd re-reading that now i'm paranoid my tank is dying while i'm at work. sighhh lol

 

[Miami Reef]

Hopefully that link works, my work computer can be a pain.

Like i said before still new to the hobby and can't really give facts/ but can definitely say what happened in my tank! lol altho re-reading it says calcium carbonate - not bicarbonate. Prob mis-spoke on my end i apologize! Like i said - still new! lol

That’s calcium carbonate, not calcium bicarbonate.