LEDs and Acropora...Please shed some light on this topic (urrghhhh...)

[uniquecorals]

So it looks like we've made it through another week, huh?

With all of the great conversations we had, I forgot to post on a topic that's been piquing my interest for some time now. Perhaps you can, ahem- shed a little light on it (really bad pun here...you'll know why in a second)...

It's no secret that Unique Corals grows tons of Acropora. We are near-obsessed by Acros, especially Millies, Vermiculata, Tenuis, etc. We grow them under 400 watt, 20,000K "Radium" metal halides on light movers. Those of you who have been to our facility or who have ordered from us know that our Acros are pretty darned nice (if I say so myself...).

Now, for our use, halides are still perfectly appropriate and highly effective, even though they have fallen out of favor among many reefers. We've tried LEDs for growing our Acros in the past, and were not entirely satisfied with the results...Of course, with Jake ("Mr. LED") Adams in house, we've been getting to try out some of the newest and craziest LED systems in the world, and we're about to test a few cool units in our facility.

The issue for us with LEDs has always been the cost/benefit thing. In order to properly illuminate our 30 foot raceways with LEDs, the investment was super high, and quite frankly, we were less than impressed with our initial LED trials at growing "SPS" corals. Don't get me wrong. We love and use LEDs; it's just that we're still trying to figure out that "sweet spot" between growth and cost on them for our operation.

We have so many customers who utilize LED's in their aquariums, and I'm very, very curios what your long-term experience has been with keeping our Acros under LED's. I'm wondering what brand/fixture you use, what setting, how long your tank is illuminated, and what distance above your tank you maintain the fixture.

I'd like to know things like how your Acro colors have changed since you've received them an illuminated them under LEDs, and if you've noticed any growth/health issues...and how well the corals acclimated, etc. For example, were blue corals going green, reddish corals going blue or brown...or what?

I would love to see us move away from the "Needs strong lighting" -kind of generic recommendations for our corals , and be able to be more specific based on real-world experiences of our customers, and feedback like this helps.

Anyways, your feedback is most welcome, as are pics and your thoughts on the topic. Pros/cons...whatever...just would love to hear your experiences and see some pics!

Thanks!

Scott

 

[heathd.hd]

Send me a bunch of frags and I'll send progression pics! Hahah.

 

[Reef Pets]

400w Radium 20k for me as well. I tried LEDs for a while over SPS and it was a complete fail. I've also seen some amazing sps tanks using LEDs.
For me, there is too much guess work and fine tuning needed for LEDs when trying to grow sps. Yea they run hot but with living in the north the added heat is helpful 6 months out of the year.
I've used LEDs over LPS and Softies with great results.

 

[uniquecorals]

Send me a bunch of frags and I'll send progression pics! Hahah.

Yeha, like I didn't see THAT one coming...LOL A typical reefer...so selfless and willing to sacrifice in the pursuit of knowledge...

 

[uniquecorals]

400w Radium 20k for me as well. I tried LEDs for a while over SPS and it was a complete fail. I've also seen some amazing sps tanks using LEDs.
For me, there is too much guess work and fine tuning needed for LEDs when trying to grow sps. Yea they run hot but with living in the north the added heat is helpful 6 months out of the year.
I've used LEDs over LPS and Softies with great results.

An interesting point you bring up...I know a lot of reefers that were surprised by the amount of heat some of the more powerful LED systems generate. Nothing like halides, but still "respectable!"

 

[ronnie]

I said this the other day when this "debate" came up. I cannot grow acros under LEDs. LEDs can grow acros.

I think it takes some mega talent (and/or luck) to swap over to LEDs and have success. I went this route over the last 13+ years: PC, 175w MH, 250w MH, 250w DE, T5, overdrive T5s on icecap ballast, added in DIY strips of LEDs to my T5, went to fully DIY 4 channel LEDs, Radions, AI, to high end ATI LED/T5 hybrid - and now have a dimmable eight bulb ATI 24" sun power.

I had success at all levels that didn't include LEDs as a main light source. I dropped the powermodule recently because it was the 4 bulb version and I was getting shadowing that I didn't care for and I didn't have enough bulbs to get the color I wanted. I'm super satisfied with T5s. I am equally satisfied with MH. I loved my Phoenix 14K halides - and even almost went back to them until I found out they were being discontinued.

LEDs will find their place. But I think it'll take another 5+ years before they become mainstream successful like T5 and MH are.

Remember when everyone said T5s wouldn't grow coral?

 

[Battlecorals]

Good topic Scott and one I've been immersed in a while now myself. And with incredible results. Been saying it for a little while now, but I really believe the secret is in the warm/neutral whites. I ran fixtures with cools and warms over the same system and the results were very clearly discernable as to what worked and what didn't.


Not going for the plug here but to illustrate my convictions, everything in this pack but the purple guy was grown 100% under LEDs. I could show you many many more. Color's there and so is growth. For me the question as to "do they?" has long been answered. It's now more a question of "for how long?"

And don't get me wrong I'm still running plenty of HID's, but every time I need to buy another 16 T5's or a round of radiums I'm closer to switching over. I may be in the minority on this one, but I have yet to have any real trade offs in the switch to leds. In a lot of cases my sps look better. I would not have believed it if I didn't see it with my own eyes. It took me a while to really accept it, but I can't deny what in from of me. Since you specifically asked for some details, I personally run no frills reefbreeder fixtures at 100% and high above the water. 20+ inches in some cases. Spread is good and heat is zero. These fixtures have warms only, not a single cool in there.

Aesthetically still inferior to the Radium in my opinion, I'll admit that I run halides over my own display. But for propagation, you cant hardly beat them if you ask me.


My advice Scott, would be to have someone build you a fixture (assuming you must have some LED's savoy friends) with plenty of warms and blues, and try them out over some sps in your main. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at what you see.

 

[acolotto]

Been using LEDs on my SPS tank for 2 or 3 yrs cant rememeber exactly when i got them. But i just use 120w non-dimmable Taotronic LEDS with only blue and white leds. I run two over my 90 reef about 10"-12" above the water for 10 hrs a day. Me personally have had great success with LEDs. I think a lot of people get lost in the "hype" of LEDs by buying the top dollar fixtures when all you really need is some blue and white leds and find the K you like on your tank like you would with MH. So when you spend $1500 on some lights and dont notice a difference quick enough people freak out, sell them and go back to what they were previously using, just IMO. I personally would never use anything then leds. Its nice to not think if i need to replace bulbs, and also waking up every morining and seeing the same amount of light being shined over my tank is nice. Plus for me with leds, I can keep acros every where in the tank, bottom, middle, top

 

[uniquecorals]

Good topic Scott and one I've been immersed in a while now myself. And with incredible results. Been saying it for a little while now, but I really believe the secret is in the warm/neutral whites. I ran fixtures with cools and warms over the same system and the results were very clearly discernable as to what worked and what didn't.


Not going for the plug here but to illustrate my convictions, everything in this pack but the purple guy was grown 100% under LEDs. I could show you many many more. Color's there and so is growth. For me the question as to "do they?" has long been answered. It's now more a question of "for how long?"

And don't get me wrong I'm still running plenty of HID's, but every time I need to buy another 16 T5's or a round of radiums I'm closer to switching over. I may be in the minority on this one, but I have yet to have any real trade offs in the switch to leds. In a lot of cases my sps look better. I would not have believed it if I didn't see it with my own eyes. It took me a while to really accept it, but I can't deny what in from of me. Since you specifically asked for some details, I personally run no frills reefbreeder fixtures at 100% and high above the water. 20+ inches in some cases. Spread is good and heat is zero. These fixtures have warms only, not a single cool in there.

Aesthetically still inferior to the Radium in my opinion, I'll admit that I run halides over my own display. But for propagation, you cant hardly beat them if you ask me.


My advice Scott, would be to have someone build you a fixture (assuming you must have some LED's savoy friends) with plenty of warms and blues, and try them out over some sps in your main. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at what you see.

Thanks for the feedback, Adam. We've been playing with LED's, and we'll see how some of the new fixtures we're demo-ing work out. I think the interesting thing (apart from the fact that your frags look awesome- because that never surprises me- and shouldn't surprise ANYONE!) is that growing them under LEDs seems to yield a different result than switching them to LEDs after they're established...Great feedback, and of course, your pic makes ME want to go our and start another tank. I hate you.


-Scott

 

[Battlecorals]

Thanks for the feedback, Adam. We've been playing with LED's, and we'll see how some of the new fixtures we're demo-ing work out. I think the interesting thing (apart from the fact that your frags look awesome- because that never surprises me- and shouldn't surprise ANYONE!) is that growing them under LEDs seems to yield a different result than switching them to LEDs after they're established...Great feedback, and of course, your pic makes ME want to go our and start another tank. I hate you.


-Scott

LOL Ill take that as a compliment But very good point. I am by no means the guru of LED's. Far from it in fact. I'm very undereducated in what they are and how they actually work. But I agree with you that there is a significant difference between transitioned sps and coral that was actually produced under them. That's pretty consistent with acro behavior as a whole anyway. If I can generalize a little.

Pound for pound, once the spectral needs are met, all three lighting sources tend to produce pretty much the same end result. Subtle differences for sure, but a healthy acro is a healthy acro is a healthy acro


I'll be very interested to hear how thing go for you and what you end up utilizing.

 

[heathd.hd]

Here's my question form a led user. How long do you think it takes to stabilize a frag from one lighting source to another. Let's say. Ocean into radium than into leds.

Some of my frags have been awesome no color loss nothing. Some others have gone brown and angry but regained color.

 

[uniquecorals]

hethd.hd- that's a very good question, one which I think we'd all like to hear more about!

Scott

 

[heathd.hd]

I think there's not only this dilemma of finding the right spectrum. Than finding the right intensity for each coral. But also is how long before we can say the coral is colored up.

I if we keep progressing with leds in finding what really works it will be 100% the future. But I'm no expert on any of this stuff. Just my thoughts.

 

[acolotto]

I think people just think to much when choosing and using leds, all you need to do is get some blues and whites in your preferred color range, set it and forget it for 5+ yrs. Where they go bad is the price point, unless you do DIY or order Chinese versions

 

[heathd.hd]

Hahah this is gonna be like a Bruce Jenner post! I can see it already.

My bad..... "kaitlyn"

 

[beach chair]

I have AI Sols and have had nothing but great success with SPS. Millis are literally growing out of the water. I have corals from many sources: aquaculture from a local greenhouse powered by the sun, frags from MH tanks, frags from LED, etc. Never has there been an issue from transitioning, growth or color. Tank has been setup 6.5 years and the Sols were up since Jan 2011. I haven't had any problems with any colors. I will never go back to MH.

 

[SCMatt]

I've got good colors and decent to what I would consider slow growth on my acros under LED (growth comes from other factors as well though so I can't just blame the lighting). Quite honestly the ONLY reasons I even went LED in the first place was the cost over time not having to replace bulbs and the biggest reason, the heat. I already live in a place that is like an oven, hell on earth. Hot and humid, already cranking the AC to keep the house cool adding a MH would be counter productive and drive my costs and my sanity through the roof. I just literally cannot take the room heat. I ran a 250w MH fixture over a tank in the past and I'd walk into the room and get heat stroke in the summer time.

If it wasn't for the heat I could manage the bulb cost and I'd be running MH or even T5 which has the same heat problem for me. But for now my LEDs are giving me what I need and I'll stick with them.

 

[Reef Pets]

@Battlecorals Adam what Reefbreeder LED are you using?
Did you have it custom made or is the light one of their production models?
Having the light 20" above the water surface how much area will is cover effectively for SPS?
How deep are the coral under the water surface.
I'm sure you've already answered all of these questions in the past..

 

[whixley101]

I have been using LEDs for three years now and have never been over the top happy with them. My sps have very slow growth but good, not great, color. It could be my fixtures or me playing with intensities about every three months. I was hard for me to justified a change in lighting when my initial investment was over 1600. I have research lighting for over a month now and more concussed than when I started. I am to the point of saying to hell with it and going back to T5 HO or MH. Lol. Scott, your rant/probe really hits home with me right now. My tank is 14 years old and after three years of four "high end" led fixtures I could not be more unhappy with my reef. Not being a pessimist, just reality from MH = happy, T5 HO = happy, led = disappointment.

Still Wet,
Cole

 

[ronnie]

I still had the best coralline growth ever with my PC fixture over my 55g.