LEDs and Acropora...Please shed some light on this topic (urrghhhh...)

[palmer]

I have had my LED - Ocean Revive t247 on my tank for 3 months and I am getting fantastic colors actually better than my 250watt 14k Phoenix set up. Could be that I am using Acropower now within the 3 months but LEDs are working quite well for me

 

[reburn]

I honestly believe that many people can and do get stuck in tweaking hell.

Sure LEDs can grow coral, they can color coral.
I struggled with a kessil for a year trying to find the butter zone. I never could. What I've learned is set the lights and don't touch them. Also in my observations they need to be at least 12" off the water, but 24" is better. I personally prefer a combo of MH/T5. Radium/ UVL blue plus. It's kinda a plug it in and forget method. If the coral need more light move them to a hotter area.

LEDs don't work for everyone, and some of us don't like them and won't use them because of past bad experiences. Will I say never, no.
There may come a time when I decided to try LEDs again but I don't see it in the immediate future.

 

[Lonelyreef]

My other thing that the industry as a whole is irritating me with is I feel that leds are being pushed so hard that halide bulb companies are disappearing and I remember not to long ago it was a little difficult to even get the fixture you wanted for a halide but there are 50 different led companies just don't make sense to me

 

[naso tang]

Would everyone at least agree that LEDs produce different color than say t5 or halides at least

It's hard to answer this imo. I've run leds only and prefer to supplement leds with t5s. But now that i have hydra52s, it is obvious my 3 channel leds brought out certain colors and my coral is morphing under the new hydra52s likely due to new spectrum. And any time i bring in a coral from halides to led systems, there is an extended acclimation period in my system. 3-6 mths i'm talking. And then, yes, the coral looks different to me than it did under halides. I've seen a green tort turn bright yellow when moved to radiums. But sometimes the coral morph that i get under my led/t5 combination is amazing, like this guy. He's changing all the time under my led/t5 combo, for like 1.5 yrs


Here's an fts to show whats growing under the t5/leds. These corals have been under leds for years now, 3 or 4.

 

[jedimasterben]

My other thing that the industry as a whole is irritating me with is I feel that leds are being pushed so hard that halide bulb companies are disappearing and I remember not to long ago it was a little difficult to even get the fixture you wanted for a halide but there are 50 different led companies just don't make sense to me

The lighting industry is moving away from mercury vapor lighting (aka metal halide, HPS, fluorescent) toward solid state lighting. The 'reef' niche of the lighting market is a literal drop in the bucket. If and when the time comes for manufacturers to stop production runs of metal halides and fluorescent lamps, the niche areas will probably be the first to go.

 

[acolotto]

LEDs are just way more efficient then any other form offered right now, they last for years with out losing brightness or output. Companies can't make as much money of the customer over time like they can for t5 and mh, thus leading to a high initial cost. I'm sure if you add up the cost of running LEDs for 5 yrs compared to MH or t5, the LEDs are cheaper. And also keep in mind that LEDs can last 7 to 10 yrs. I have only run mine for 2-3 yrs but they are still as bright as the day I got them, and IMO you can't beat that

 

[jedimasterben]

LEDs are just way more efficient then any other form offered right now, they last for years with out losing brightness or output. Companies can't make as much money of the customer over time like they can for t5 and mh, thus leading to a high initial cost. I'm sure if you add up the cost of running LEDs for 5 yrs compared to MH or t5, the LEDs are cheaper. And also keep in mind that LEDs can last 7 to 10 yrs. I have only run mine for 2-3 yrs but they are still as bright as the day I got them, and IMO you can't beat that

Actually, they are not. LEDs do lose intensity, just nowhere near the rate of vapor lighting. Most quality LEDs are rated for roughly 50K hours at 25-80C until they reach L70, which is 70% of their initial output. Knockoff LEDs will usually have much less than that, estimate 25-30K. If the LEDs are pushed beyond their test current (nearly all are) and are not properly cooled, this time can be significantly reduced or the diodes can outright fail if they get hot enough.

 

[underwood]

I have a 40 gal breeder and went with the Maxspect Razr (16k version) because I did not want a canopy and while looking at LED options I found the dimensions of the Razr fit my tank's footprint the best. (I felt I would have needed 2 of most fixtures to get full coverage.)

The biggest challenge I had initially was finding the "sweet spot" in terms of the duration and intensity settings. The white setting was up too high at first and that caused a few SPS's colors to wash out.

I work in Orlando pretty regularly, so one day I swung by WWC. While talking to Victor, we got on the topic of my tank and what lighting I was running, and he mentioned that his personal tank is around the same size and he runs the exact same fixture (and apparently loves it). He mentioned the settings that he runs, and I was still trying to dial in my settings, so I adjusted my settings similar to his when I got home.

Shadowing has already been mentioned. I know it is worse with LEDs than T5/MH. Another thing that has made a big difference, and I have not seen this mentioned yet, was changing the optics on my fixture. The standard fixture has 90 degree optics. I found this led to "hot spots" and contributed to shadowing. When I switched to the 120 degree optics, the spread was much more even and reduced shadowing.

So far, I have had good growth and, since the settings and optics change, my colors have been great.

[Please excuse the poor photo quality - I still haven't figured out how to take clear pictures of the tank - but I thought a photo would help for context.]

 

[acolotto]

Most are not pushed past there wattage. Most companies use 3 watt LEDs and run them around 2. It's a mute point comparing the output lose to MH and T5 my LEDs are still putting the same par out, and I bet they will 2 years from now as well. I personally like LEDs and have had good coloring and growth, but not saying which is better as I really don't know because when I used T5s I had mostly lps, switched to LEDs and acros awhile back (2-3 yrs don't really know exact date). But for me I switched because of cost and have had great success.

Here is frag of RR Asia Wolverine (also my avatar but my favorite piece) under 120w taotronic LEDs 30 3 watt white LEDs 25 3 watt blue LEDs that have drivers that run them at 2.3 watts and I keep them at 100%

 

[ronnie]

The power savings is negligible as well, mostly due to the higher start up costs versus bulb replacement.

Radion Pro runs 172w - cost is $800 (with hanging kit)
6 bulb dimmable sunpower runs 144w - cost is $489

So startup and electrical costs are higher on the G3, which will offset the savings until year 4-5. Negating any real savings because most reefers will upgrade LEDs before then.

 

[acolotto]

The power savings is negligible as well, mostly due to the higher start up costs versus bulb replacement.

Radion Pro runs 172w - cost is $800 (with hanging kit)
6 bulb dimmable sunpower runs 144w - cost is $489

So startup and electrical costs are higher on the G3, which will offset the savings until year 4-5. Negating any real savings because most reefers will upgrade LEDs before then.

The bulbs cost $20 each that's $120 every 6 to 8 months and you gotta buy the first set of bulbs as well...that's what got me to LEDs, I was in college at the time lol. But I do agree though most people will upgrade there LEDs before the cost will matter, but for me they're perfect. I'm the kind of guy that thinks why change it if it's working, so I don't plan on getting new lights until these ones drop off in output and par. Then I'll replace them with another set of LEDs and do the same thing, set it and forget it

 

[Reef Pets]

I see so many replies to lighting that start with 'sure they run hot and use lots of power, but I live where it's cold and need the heat, yada, yada'.
That's like saying, I built this nuclear power plant next door to heat my morning coffee!
I didn't know there was still a lighting debate??

My Radion Pro's do the job, I'm not a commercial grower but in my little reef they are more than adequate

I would have to disagree. Living in an area that gets in the teens and below zero in the winter, trust me the heat from the halides help. Yes, I could run cool LEDs and then run a couple thousand watts of heater 24 hours a day 6 months out of the year. Living in Ohio, halides are more efficient in the winter and less efficient in the summer. If I were running LEDs they would be more efficient in the summer and less in the winter. Living in the northern region, LEDs aren't more efficient but equal, at least for me they are.

 

[ronnie]

I change T5s every 14-18 months. You're throwing a perfectly good bulb out if you change them at 6 months.

 

[gablett]

I used 250 watt radium 20k over my 220 sps tank for years. Loved them. LEDs were all the rage about 2 years ago so I decided it would save me in electric to switch. So I got 3 panels of 24" reefbreeder led fixtures. I had an apogee par meter so I matched par as much as I could. It looked way dimmer to my eyes. I mounted them about 12" high and noticed a lot of spotlight and shadowing. So I added 2 more in the back on either side of my center overflow. Then for 2 years I tried to find the perfect color and run time to keep everything happy. Meanwhile everything was in decline. Growth ground to a creeping slow speed. Not the polyp extension I was used to. Greens turned brown. Blues and reds paled and faded. It was not good. But very gradual. I would add coral from friends tanks and then go back a month later and mine looked like crap. Zoas, lps all did great. Really great. Sps did horrible. I tried more blues, more whites, less intensity and longer run time, a more gradual ramp up. I tried it all. Finally I was looking at pictures of my tank and was blown away by how far it has fallen from mh/t5 days. So I decided enough is enough and got lumenbright minis and went back to 250 radiums this time in hqi ballasts. It is amazingly brighter. These reflectors are outstanding. In a matter of weeks corals are more open, true colors are coming back. Back to the glory days. No more shadowing. No more spotlighting. Much more appealing to the eyes. This time I did supplement with leds which I think they excel at. They are excellent for getting a custom color supplement. I could go on and on with my experiences but that sums it up. If anyone has any questions I'd b happy to help.

 

[Outdrsyguy1]

It's really amazing how people's experiences differ so drastically.

 

[Sangheili]

I would really like to see some 2-5yr PAR comparisons on LED fixtures vs. brand new of the same type. I have a feeling the PAR drop is a lot more then most expect due to poor cooling and overpowering on some fixtures. I have read a few comments in this vein on other forums but would like to see some concrete numbers. Scott, maybe you can measure those Kessils you have vs a new one?

Personally I run T5/LED hybrid on my displays and T5/Halide on my farm. I have used LEDs a lot but see much more success with T5. Halide will be new for me. I have used many different LED fixtures and I am really not sold on any of the advantages except control. I really don't see (in the general sense) LEDs being cheaper, more efficient, or cooler running. They are just -different-.

 

[ReefCave]

As with monitoring water levels, I feel monitoring light is just as valuable and to some degrees necessary. It is all guessing and shooting in the dark if the light is not measured to make truly accurate comparisons of why or why not the LED's/halide/t5 are working. Is the light growing corals.. Why?, If it's not...Why?. Light is not just light and all LED's ARE NOT created equal. Without measuring or testing we are all assuming why it is, or is not working. Here is a educational read on PAR and PUR and...why?

These articles are dated back to 2012, the product used as examples would now be considered dated technology. However, the fundamentals are the same.
http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2012/03/pur-vs-par-in-aquarium-lighting.html?m=1
Another good read
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/10/aafeature

 

[Trakk5504]

I just use some regular kessil a360 we's and my acros have great coloration and are healthy the don't grow as fast as under MH IMO but they do grow now huge difference just slightly slower growth but coloration and all around health is still great and the advantages of LEDs over MH are more than worth it for me no worrying about bulbs the heat i hated dealing with the heat from MH and let's not forget the electricity bill! Lol I'm my opinion LEDs are the way to go they have come a long way but I think they will be coming a lot further in the next few years also but for me I can deal with a tad little bit of slower growth for all the benefits and the acros and Millie's seem to love it as well but the coloration is there for me I love LEDs I know they are expensive but I think they are worth it I'm only using kessils I know there are a lot more powerful LEDs and what not but for me just the kessils a360s do it for me I'll never go back to MH.!! That's just my 2 cents hope it helps out

 

[Squamosa]

Haha, you tell me how long it takes to grow little sticks into those colonies..1 year, 2 years?

My radion use is measured in years!

 

[ReefCave]

Haha, you tell me how long it takes to grow little sticks into those colonies..1 year, 2 years?

My radion use is measured in years!

That's awesome that was achieved from frags with the LED. Perfectly achievable in a year or two with proper lighting/parameters from nubs. I'm currently weening my 1k watt 2ok Radium halides to a 4 hour per day peak hour cycle and supplementing with RadionG3 Pro prior and post halide. I'm very curious to document the growth and color change. Hopefully ween off the halide without any noticeable difference.