LEDs and Acropora...Please shed some light on this topic (urrghhhh...)

[Longnose Hawkfish]

@Squamosa could you please share your graph for the Radions? I have mine set and I like it overall and get decent growth, but I feel like I could pull a little more growth out of them with a slight change to my schedule. I would really like to see your light set up. Thanks.

 

[Squamosa]

@Squamosa could you please share your graph for the Radions? I have mine set and I like it overall and get decent growth, but I feel like I could pull a little more growth out of them with a slight change to my schedule. I would really like to see your light set up. Thanks.

Hi Blake.
Here you go and I also include my highest PAR reading

 

[ReefCave]

I'm assuming the apogee sensor is out of the water? I just noticed the 1342 is a pretty high par reading? I'll have to play with my apogee tomorrow. Your acros are obviously rockin! Thanks for sharing

 

[Msseb01]

I have been using LED's for quite some time and spent a ton on lighting; never having luck on acceptable coral growth. If anything, a slow death of about a year to a year in a half. The new 150 I am setting up will have 3-250 MH 4-T5 Actinic and a strip of LED's for the moon lights. 55 Gallon Refugium with a 30watt LED for the fuge. I'm looking for the shimmer and colors to pop. Also, with the LED's I have burned a lot of corals over the years and keeping them on for 10 hours is a recipe for algae. Unfortunately, the LED's do not replicate the sun well JMO.

 

[turfster26]

LEDs are just way more efficient then any other form offered right now, they last for years with out losing brightness or output. Companies can't make as much money of the customer over time like they can for t5 and mh, thus leading to a high initial cost. I'm sure if you add up the cost of running LEDs for 5 yrs compared to MH or t5, the LEDs are cheaper. And also keep in mind that LEDs can last 7 to 10 yrs. I have only run mine for 2-3 yrs but they are still as bright as the day I got them, and IMO you can't beat that

Do you have FACTUAL data and/or knowledge that LED's last "7-10-yrs"? That is what the industry is "telling" all of us. I get tired of people throwing unfound claims of how long LED's last.

BUT I've had a very reputable LRS locally do actual testing over a 2-yr period (on some of the earlier LED's.....not going to mention the manufacture, but let's just say it was one of the major ones) and the dropoff in PAR was substantial. They took monthly and yearly reading and were one of the first LFS to install LED's. Their findings were pretty eyeopening and made me rethink switching to LED's at the time.

Personally, I am sticking with MH/T5 setup for another couple of years until all this lighting shakes out. There are COUNTLESS threads on this topic ad nauseam. Not to mention all the "for sale" threads with LED's. People in this hobby try to chase the next best thing, and quite frankly, I get tired of seeing so many LED's being sold everyday on the sales forum. As soon as AI or ETM come out with the latest iteration, here we go again, TONS of LED's go up for sale, etc, etc, etc, etc.

My Radium MH setup has been running for 10+ years and is as KISS as it gets. Bulb changeout is about $220 every 10-months or so and that it. If you see most of the TOTM threads there are plenty of support of MH.

BTW: running (3) 250w Radiums on M80 ballasts with old-school VHO's supplementation on a 180-gl sps tank....fwiw.

Ok.....off my soapbox for now and ready for the darts to be thrown at me......lol

 

[whixley101]

18 month progression of ORA Red Planet under four AI Vegas.(W 100%, R&G 10%, All B's 100%. This why I am not happy. The SPS grow, but crappy compared to my old MH or T5 HO.


January 16, 2014

June 3, 2015

On a side note for full disclaimer - All corals in this particular tank were hand selected by Scott @uniquecorals.

 

[ronnie]

Is that recession on the tricolor to the right of the RP?

 

[whixley101]

Is that recession on the tricolor to the right of the RP?

As soon as the Red Planet touched the base of the tricolor it tried to RTN. So I directed some extra water flow towards it and it stopped. There is still some flesh so I am letting it chill for a bit. I like coral war!

 

[BkReefBaby]

I'm learning a lot on this thread especially with the input of all these big names...I run kessil 360we and haven't seen any growth on my sps...mean while anything considered sps is growing like crazy...I've been debating on trying a different LED or just going to T5 but I don't really want to buy new bulbs every yr

 

[jasonandsarah]

Here's a green millie I got March of last year. It had little growth for a long time under "ebay Led" .. my tanks been running for over 2 years with leds.


Same millie in Oct of last year when I switched to Radion gen 3 pro's. Probably 2 weeks under the Radions and already sproutin a nub.


February of this year, also I've been fragging it.
It's even bigger now but my lights are still really blue.
Garf Bonsia I got about the same time as the millie. Saw little growth before the switch.

Always a slow grower for me but this has always been an acro people want frags from me.
Here's a pic from a couple weeks ago and remember it didn't really start growing till I got the Radions in Oct.


These were all grown under leds some with ebay fixtures and some a combination.





Either way you get the point. I'm a Stick head and I've at the very least moderately had success growing many kinds of Acros under led. EBay fixtures and now Radions. I've had much better success with the Radions but I think the acclimation mode helps with that.
I also agree that a long acclimation is needed from Halide/T5 to Leds. I've found that even high light Acro's even need to start on my sand bed for a good 3-4 weeks. Also finding a successful program that you can use or at least start with os important, followed by leaving your lights alone! Look at what people go through when they add new Halides or T5's? Raise their fixture or with T5's only adding 1-2 new bulbs at a time. Tweaking your lights all the time is what causes 80% of Led failure imo. I know it sounds stupid because everyone buys leds for the "programming" and "features" but I don't mess with mine. No lightning storms and no clouds just good old consistent light.

 

[Squamosa]

I'm assuming the apogee sensor is out of the water? I just noticed the 1342 is a pretty high par reading? I'll have to play with my apogee tomorrow. Your acros are obviously rockin! Thanks for sharing

You are assuming wrong!
That reading is at the hot-spot, 100 mm under the surface with the lights 10 inches above the surface.

Too much light I think, but they are growing

 

[kchapmanjr]

In my not so experienced opinion, (only been reefing since 1998), I have seen lighting come and go due to advances in tech and industry trends. I remember when even t5's had the question of whether or not they were capable of long term coral growth. We can all say we know someone who grows corals great with [insert led brand/type], and some of us of cannot replicate their results. For instance, @Battlecorals grows some of the best looking sticks available... Even under LEDs. Likewise with @uniquecorals under MH. However, personally, I feel that a mixture of MH/LED is what still has the most positive business case in terms of cost/benefit analysis. The lighting acclimation period when going from straight MH to straight LED is much longer than any other I have experienced. Some corals literally take a year to regain/start showing color again... UC SSC is a good example. I have one now I bought from Scott that is just now (finally) beginning to gain some of the intended colors back after (nine???) months in my tank. I know that this is a coral that is known for having a significant dormant period, but I think that it is exasperated by the transition between light sources. I am currently considering the Reefbrite Hybrid units in an attempt to achieve this balance between growth and color. Anyone have any experience with these lights?

 

[ReefCave]

Reefbrite Hybrid units in an attempt to achieve this balance between growth and color. Anyone have any experience with these lights?

Look up my friend Brad Syphus in UT on FaceBook he has had some of the fastest growth I've seen with this combo. (documented) His husbandry practices are equally as important. But some great results with that light.

 

[Bombertech]

I find it entertaining that this is still a topic of debate for so many. LED tech is like the "lego" of reef lighting. Most fixtures are designed with a one size fits all approach which leads a lot of people to never fully understand how to correctly tune it.

With a proper basis of design, a killer LED fixture can out perform other lighting options as you build an optimal spectrum nm "brick by brick".

In regards to color shift, this is the case with any lighting. Radiant flux is radiant flux, the spectrum is what varies... hint hint.

A few other thoughts; don't become biased from short term experiment results published by universities, and be sure to understand the cause and effect of color shift/morphing (both desirable and undesireable). That sometimes means backtracking from the result to find the cause.

If you invest some time, you'll figure it out.

 

[kacrocorals581]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/big-rs-265g-sps-dominated-piece-of-the-ocean.175878/ I'd say LEDs can grow acro just fine , whatever aquanaut is doing is working all diy

 

[uniquecorals]

Great discussion, participation, and input by all..Thanks so much for sharing. Interesting opinions and information! Exactly the spirit in which this thread was started.

-Scott

 

[Longnose Hawkfish]

Thanks Squamosa for the pictures.

 

[ReefCave]

I find it entertaining that this is still a topic of debate for so many. LED tech is like the "lego" of reef lighting. Most fixtures are designed with a one size fits all approach which leads a lot of people to never fully understand how to correctly tune it.

With a proper basis of design, a killer LED fixture can out perform other lighting options as you build an optimal spectrum nm "brick by brick".

In regards to color shift, this is the case with any lighting. Radiant flux is radiant flux, the spectrum is what varies... hint hint.

A few other thoughts; don't become biased from short term experiment results published by universities, and be sure to understand the cause and effect of color shift/morphing (both desirable and undesireable). That sometimes means backtracking from the result to find the cause.

If you invest some time, you'll figure it out.

I just want to role model an all LED light source and achieve equally as good results as I have with halide or T5. My business sales and stocks Ecotech, AI, Kessil, Ecoxotic in the multi spectrum, and controllable category and have for years. We were one of the first LFS to receive the original radion. We are a Gold Dealer for Ecotech and a preffered vendor for many others, so I've been trying to figure it out.
Out if all categories talked about in my store this is in the top 3. (A multi times per day topic) and one of the most expensive / important decisions facing a newbie. When a customer tells me they want to achieve a comparable SPS tank to our displays I want to give them a recepie for guaranteed success and results. Same thing when I sale a MH/t5 SPS frag that is now going to a potential LED home. Being a store, if issues arise I'm easily found, and feet are held to the fire. I'd love to see a customers reaction when I tell them why their SPS are not producing comparably "if you invest some time you'll figure it out " I'm just looking for some documented comparable SPS tanks achieved with LED.? SPS is the only category of coral I'm wary in promising a high bar of customer success with high quality LED based on realtime results in the LFS.

 

[Bombertech]

I just want to role model an all LED light source and achieve equally as good results as I have with halide or T5. My business sales and stocks Ecotech, AI, Kessil, Ecoxotic in the multi spectrum, and controllable category and have for years. We were one of the first LFS to receive the original radion. We are a Gold Dealer for Ecotech and a preffered re vendor for many others so I've been trying to figure it out.
Out if all categories talked about in my store this is in the top 3. (A multi times per day topic) and One of the most expensive / important decisions facing a newbie. When a customer tells me they want to achieve a comparable SPS tank to our displays I want to give them a recepie for guaranteed success and results. Same thing when I sale a MH/t5 SPS frag that is now going to a potential LED home. Being a store if issues arise I'm easily found, and feet on the fire are placed on the fire I'd love to see a customers reaction when I tell them why their SPS are not producing comparably "if you invest some time you'll figure it out " I'm just looking for some documented comparable SPS tanks achieved with LED.? It's the only category of coral I'm wary in promising a high bar if customer success with 100% LED

If I told you exactly what to do you wouldn't know why and the overall debate would still exist. This is exactly what happened with T5 layouts, people don't want to know why, they just want the answer. They are lazy and I blame the industry that has nearly snuffed out DIY innovation in our hobby. First you need to know why a coral reacts/adapts the way it does.

If you are looking to role model a light source, then do it. Does your output spectrum emulate the original light source? What can be removed without sacrificing pigmentation and growth? Better yet, what can be removed to aid in reduced photo-inhibition with an undesireable wavelength? True success comes from failure, understanding, and determination; not the easy button!

 

[ReefCave]

Ok so any one have pics or a link to a thread of a successful ALL LED SPS tank that shows documented growth? Let's see the results, enough debate let the coral and long term hands on successful LED experience w/ SPS start talking. With ALL the diehard LED advocates this should be a breeze.