My Experience with Peroxide , wiping out the entire tank over night.

[mav3rick478]

Your tank is 5 months old and not fully mature, anything could've nuked it with lack of biome diversity. Corals don't need a mature tank to survive where fish, inverts and anemones do. Sorry for your losses, it's always the harsh reality of this hobby that slow and steady is the real moniker, especially with smaller tanks since the lack of water volume magnifies problems hidden or seen exponentially fast. Dust off this speed bump and keep at it you got this.

 

[exnisstech]

leaking voltage

Not an issue. Stray voltage will not kill fish. Jay Hemdal even stated such. I know personally from having 50 volts in a tank and falling off a chair when I got jolted. All livestock was fine.
No disrespect meant I just don't want the OP to start chasing ghosts.

 

[The_Paradox]

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Not an issue. Stray voltage will not kill fish. Jay Hemdal even stated such. I know personally from having 50 volts in a tank and falling off a chair when I got jolted. All overstock was fine.
No disrespect meant I just don't want the OP to start chasing ghosts.

EMI/voltage most certainly effects fish as it does all animals. I’m not implying they get cooked/electrocuted.

 

[MnFish1]

The only thing I can think of that would kill fish and crustaceans but not coral is ammonia (or low oxygen - which would have been odd given the use of H2O2() - for some reason. Your tank may not have been mature another to handle whatever died - creating a cascading type of event. Corals can actually utilize ammonia to some degree. From your OP - you said " I hand-dosed 2.3ml of 3% peroxide diluted with pure water (as stated on the label)"

This doesn't make total sense to me (I'm not sure why you diluted it) - could you have possibly used an incorrect dilution or H2O2?

Second - as 23.5 gallon tank does not contain 23.5 gallons - when you consider all the rock, etc - so that could have caused a minor overdose.

Lastly - I can picture a scenario where you have a tank that has relatively little 'detritus'/dirt - which meant that H2O2 could have had a greater effect on fish gills than if you added it to a tank with (for example) algae overgrown all over.

Sorry this happened hope your corals stay in excellent shape

 

[BangingBaking]

The only thing I can think of that would kill fish and crustaceans but not coral is ammonia (or low oxygen - which would have been odd given the use of H2O2() - for some reason. Your tank may not have been mature another to handle whatever died - creating a cascading type of event. Corals can actually utilize ammonia to some degree. From your OP - you said " I hand-dosed 2.3ml of 3% peroxide diluted with pure water (as stated on the label)"

This doesn't make total sense to me (I'm not sure why you diluted it) - could you have possibly used an incorrect dilution or H2O2?

Second - as 23.5 gallon tank does not contain 23.5 gallons - when you consider all the rock, etc - so that could have caused a minor overdose.

Lastly - I can picture a scenario where you have a tank that has relatively little 'detritus'/dirt - which meant that H2O2 could have had a greater effect on fish gills than if you added it to a tank with (for example) algae overgrown all over.

Sorry this happened hope your corals stay in excellent shape

total volume of tank+sump is 31gallon and after subtracting for rocks and equipment, the exact amount of water i filled initially was 23.5gallon. measured this so that I know exactly how much to dose for future additives as per instruction.

I didn't dilute the peroxide solution, it was a standard 3% peroxide w/w with label ingredient of pure water/peroxide which i assume nothing but pure water and peroxide is used in the solution.

>>Lastly - I can picture a scenario where you have a tank that has relatively little 'detritus'/dirt
This could possibly be the case as well because during the first month or so I noticed quite a bit of a detritus buildup on the rock work, so installed a second oversized wave pump directly blowing to the rock from the back so that tank will have completely no dead spot. I manually siphon the surface of the sand during the weekly water change too adding on to the fact that my tank is still new, the amount of detritus is minimal.

As for now without knowing the exact cause, I'm just too scared to introduce anymore fish in the tank so meanwhile, I'll prepare a QT setup and experiment with the right copper usage before adding anymore fish (at least by doing this, it will 100% cross off disease from the possible cause in the future).

 

[Troylee]

Weird.. it wasn’t the peroxide that did it.. I dose it like crazy and a local buddy is using like 10 times the recommended amount to battle ich currently with no issues..

 

[MnFish1]

For the people that use peroxide regularly - my impression (from a chemistry perspective) - is that H2O2 reacts quite quickly to form Water, Oxygen, as well as some free radicals. Can any of you see a situation where lets say you have 2 clown fish in a bare tank with no activated carbon, etc - that you could cause gill injury with a full dose of peroxide.

 

[exnisstech]

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EMI/voltage most certainly effects fish as it does all animals. I’m not implying they get cooked/electrocuted.

Any supporting evidence? I've been asking for years and no one has provided any.

 

[The_Paradox]

Any supporting evidence? I've been asking for years and no one has provided any.

A fair amount of literature is out there for direct electrical effects eg. Electrofishing and Electosedation of fish. What’s less published is the effects of EMF on marine life though there are some good broad research papers such as: https://web.uri.edu/offshore-renewa...le crabs,response to stronger magnetic fields.

Also good papers on RFI effects on marine animals out there. Any frequency/amplitude we would see would be well below the ionizing threshold however it may be enough to affect behavior or induced stress.

 

[rennjidk]

Your tank is 5 months old and not fully mature, anything could've nuked it with lack of biome diversity. Corals don't need a mature tank to survive where fish, inverts and anemones do. Sorry for your losses, it's always the harsh reality of this hobby that slow and steady is the real moniker, especially with smaller tanks since the lack of water volume magnifies problems hidden or seen exponentially fast. Dust off this speed bump and keep at it you got this.

That's completely backwards. Fish are complex organisms could care less about "biodiversity." The only bacteria and micro organisms in our tanks that fish care about are the nitrifying bacteria, the ones consuming oxygen, and the ones trying to infect them, whereas corals on the other hand very much care about being smothered by various algae and eaten by pests. 5 months is plenty of time to develop biological filtration, a process which usually takes days to weeks.

 

[Nemo&Friends]

Sorry for your losses. It is upsetting. Your tank is beautiful, but I wonder if you should try to add 1 or 2 hiding caves in it. I was concerned about the royal gamma being so territorial that even the clowns could not really go everywhere in your tank.
May be if the wrasse had a better hiding place it could have withstood the attacks form the RG.
I have tried the H202 in an empty tank full of algae, and it did not work at all for me. Month later I added macro algae, and a few snails and it is better, but my glass is still more green than anything. That tank still does not have any fish, I might use it for QT, or just grow more macro.

 

[MnFish1]

That's completely backwards. Fish are complex organisms could care less about "biodiversity." The only bacteria and micro organisms in our tanks that fish care about are the nitrifying bacteria, the ones consuming oxygen, and the ones trying to infect them, whereas corals on the other hand very much care about being smothered by various algae and eaten by pests. 5 months is plenty of time to develop biological filtration, a process which usually takes days to weeks.

Agree - I think Aquabiomics has shown (as have multiple articles) - that though there is an initial spike in Biodiversity after setting up a new tank (especially one with dry rock, etc, tends to decrease over time rather than increase. However, I believe all fish have an internal and skin microbiome that may be affected by various things that happen during an initial set up - however, that likely also is replaced quickly

 

[BangingBaking]

#reefsquad

So up till this point I'm not able to figure the exact cause of the death but guess I have to get over it and move on stronger.
Will runing a tank without any fish for quite sometimes and may slowly start to re-introduce the invert and I need a help on fallow period. Lots of source suggest that tank should be fallow for 75days after a disease out break, which for my case I'm not even sure if it was a disease in the first place. Though I'm not on rush and don't mind waiting out 75days before adding next fish to make sure they're gonna live healthy and happy. Meanwhile I'm prepping a QT right now so that I can have complete control of whats gonna go into my tank in the future.

Also, when tanks are run fallow, do i have to manually dose nitrate to keep up with coral's nutritional need or feeding coral food twice a week as i'm doing now will suffice?

thx in advance

 

[The_Paradox]

#reefsquad

So up till this point I'm not able to figure the exact cause of the death but guess I have to get over it and move on stronger.
Will runing a tank without any fish for quite sometimes and may slowly start to re-introduce the invert and I need a help on fallow period. Lots of source suggest that tank should be fallow for 75days after a disease out break, which for my case I'm not even sure if it was a disease in the first place. Though I'm not on rush and don't mind waiting out 75days before adding next fish to make sure they're gonna live healthy and happy. Meanwhile I'm prepping a QT right now so that I can have complete control of whats gonna go into my tank in the future.

Also, when tanks are run fallow, do i have to manually dose nitrate to keep up with coral's nutritional need or feeding coral food twice a week as i'm doing now will suffice?

thx in advance

Just monitor your prams. If something starts to dip then dose whatever it needs.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Does the ocean run peroxide?

Yes.

Hydrogen peroxide lifetimes in south Florida coastal and offshore waters

Hydrogen peroxide is ubiquitous in the surface mixed layer of the ocean and is an important chemical intermediate of aerobic systems. Due to its react…

www.sciencedirect.com

Hydrogen peroxide is ubiquitous in the surface mixed layer of the ocean and is an important chemical intermediate of aerobic systems. Due to its reactive nature and numerous chemical redox processes, H2O2 decomposition has been suggested to occur mainly through abiotic pathways involving various seawater constituents. Its decomposition rates in natural seawater show considerable spatial variability and generally obey first order kinetics with half-lives ranging from less than 10 hours in coastal waters to greater than 120 hours in surface waters of the open ocean. This study demonstrates that hydrogen peroxide decomposition in natural seawater appears primarily to be biologically mediated by microorganisms less than 1μm diameter. Cultured microorganisms added to seawater, especially the prokaryotes Vibrio pelagius and Synechococcus sp. were very efficient mediators of H2O2 decomposition.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The tank is precisely measured at 23.5 gallons during the initial fill. I hand-dosed 2.3ml of 3% peroxide diluted with pure water (as stated on the label), following the "safe zone" advice of 1ml per 10 gallons. I had seen records of 3% peroxide being dosed as high as 1ml per gallon without any issues, so I wasn't worried at all. Then, I went to bed, and when I woke up, ALL the fish, snails, and shrimp were dead.

Do you know what other ingredients were in it? many types of hydrogen peroxide have stabilizers in it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Here's a blurb on possible stabilizers in hydrogen peroxide.

While I do not know if the peroxide or stabilizers in it were the causative agent of this problem (it might also be coincidence, or a toxin from killed organisms , as folks noted), it points up the clear concern when using DIY chemicals that not all seemingly identical products are identical. Note that not all listed are necessarily benign in a marine system, such as colloidal tin.

What are H2O2 stabilizers and will they affect my application

Hydrogen peroxide dissacociation stabilizers and will they affect my application

www.usptechnologies.com

 

[Lavey29]

Yes.

Hydrogen peroxide lifetimes in south Florida coastal and offshore waters

Hydrogen peroxide is ubiquitous in the surface mixed layer of the ocean and is an important chemical intermediate of aerobic systems. Due to its react…

www.sciencedirect.com

Hydrogen peroxide is ubiquitous in the surface mixed layer of the ocean and is an important chemical intermediate of aerobic systems. Due to its reactive nature and numerous chemical redox processes, H2O2 decomposition has been suggested to occur mainly through abiotic pathways involving various seawater constituents. Its decomposition rates in natural seawater show considerable spatial variability and generally obey first order kinetics with half-lives ranging from less than 10 hours in coastal waters to greater than 120 hours in surface waters of the open ocean. This study demonstrates that hydrogen peroxide decomposition in natural seawater appears primarily to be biologically mediated by microorganisms less than 1μm diameter. Cultured microorganisms added to seawater, especially the prokaryotes Vibrio pelagius and Synechococcus sp. were very efficient mediators of H2O2 decomposition.

Incredible, thanks for sharing. Seems to be different levels in different areas and bodies of water? Any tests done on great reefs?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Incredible, thanks for sharing. Seems to be different levels in different areas and bodies of water? Any tests done on great reefs?

The levels are far lower than a tank that doses it, but I've not looked specifically for levels on reefs.

 

[MartinM]

Does the ocean run peroxide?

We don't have oceans. Although natural is often best, we cannot recreate the ocean, all we can do is attempt to create a similar enough environment that the target species thrive.

By that logic, you'd never consume medication, use or wear synthetic materials, drive a car, put a leash on a dog, etc etc.