Pinched mantle disease ID and treatment options.

Fisherman Joe · Jun 20, 2015

Yes thanks, read that.

It goes against what this article says and to only do a FW dip as a last resort.

Whilst the mantle is looking slightly more pinched each day, the main body of the clam is opening slowly more and more to feed it seems. Its muscle's are still strong and retracting when anything comes near so im quietly confident its not beginning to gape open but this is my first time. Im going to just leave it, keep doing partial water changes once or twice a week and running lots of carbon as well as daily feeds of Phyto.

It does seem to show progress and get a little better day after day, after all, two days ago it was completely shut, at least now its inlet is exposed and its feeding.

Downbeach · Jun 20, 2015

I don't think any treatment for anything in your system should be done as a knee jerk reaction. I think diagnosing the problem through observation would be the prudent approach, i.e. maybe its just a wound that is healing. If you see something you think is a problem, but doesn't seem to be getting worse, I'd just keep an eye on it, and practice normal good husbandry in an already healthy system, an ounce of prevention is always better than a pound of cure. Here are a couple other articles:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/volume_6_4/clams.html
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/3/aafeature1
http://www.fishchannel.com/saltwater-aquariums/reefkeeping/giant-clam-basics.aspx

Fisherman Joe · Jun 20, 2015

Its starting to gape now, i think its going down hill.

Think i might be forced to try a FW dip at this rate, will wait and see tomorrow.

Fisherman Joe · Jun 20, 2015

It's closed up for the night now.

If it was dying, would it close up like that still or would it "gape" at night too?

Willragan · Jul 22, 2017

Once they gape Ive never seen one really recover but im no authority.

Willragan · Jul 22, 2017

Seen them continue to close at night til they died but unfortunately the result was always death whether it took a day or a couple of weeks.

scardall · Jul 22, 2017

Willragan said:
Seen them continue to close at night til they died but unfortunately the result was always death whether it took a day or a couple of weeks.

Been there 3 times 2 times it took 2 weeks and once almost 2 days. grrrrrrrrrrr

OrionN · Sep 28, 2019

It was I that named the disease Pinched Mantel Disease and come up with the Fresh water dipped as treatment for this disease.
I keep clams since 1997. Below are pictures of the first clams that I keep. I got these from Tropicorium from Dick Perrin back in 1997.

My 420 gal tank back in 2002 was the feature tank for the Inaugural issue of Advance Aquarist, Jan 2002. In it there are pictures of clams that I have that have PMD. Pictured below:
The blue Maxima on the right side, the Black and white Maxima and the Squamosa have the disease and can be clearly seen. The other Blue Maxima also have the disease but not clearly seen in this picture. This was 2001. I think this got to be the very first picture online that show the disease.

Anyway, I was a clam fanatic and have a numbers of clams back in 2001. This disease devastated my clams. Reading and asking question did not help. This disease devastated the clam industry in the early 2000. No one know about it, and since it is a communicable disease, near 100% of imported clams ended up with it.

Back in 1997, the shipment I got from Dick Perrin was delayed by 1 days. I called Tropicorium and talk to Dick. He tole me not to worry, Maxima and Crocea are very hardy. As example of how hardy they are he tole me about the time that he for got his Maxima tray in fresh water for several hours and they all lived. He, Dick Perrin, told me that he use fresh water dipped the clams to control diseases. At the time, there were no mention of PMD, since it was unknown. When my clams were devastated by PMD, and with observation, I deduced that the infection is likely caused by surface parasites that irritated the clam mantels. Remember what Dick told me about his use of fresh water dipped, I tried to treat my clams with fresh water dipped and it works. All I have to worry about is the length of the FWD.

After I was able to cure PMD from my tank, I started to advises many clam keepers in the early 2000 time frame and was able to help a lot of people. To this day, it is the one tried and true way to treat PMD. Newly infected clams should easily tolerate FWD. The longer one wait, the weaker the clam and thus less able to tolerate FWD.

People change the treatment protocol over time, add various variation of this treatment. Many people, Barry included, thinks that this is a deep tissue infection rather than surface infection. IMO, this is illogical. Tissue infection will never response to FWD. There is no magic to FWD. Due to osmotic pressure fresh water will rupture the cellular membrane of small animals which have much higher surface to volume ratio. Clam, being much bigger, have much less surface to volume ratio, thus can withstand fresh water bath much longer than single cellular organism.

One last note.
Anything that irritated the mantel of a clam will cause the mantel to retract. One must diagnose the disease accurately in order for the treatment to work. The pattern and the course of the mantel retraction, the progression of the disease must be consider before the disease accurately diagnose. FWD will not help if the disease is mis-diagnosed.

Happy clamping everybody.

ldolor2 · Nov 3, 2019

Does this clam have PMD?

DSC reef · Nov 3, 2019

It doesn't look like pinched mantle to me.

OrionN · Nov 3, 2019

Continue to watch it for a few days and see. Anything can irritated the mantle. PMD irritated it in a specific way.
read this article I wrote about PMD:

Fresh Water Dip as treatment of Pinched Mantle Disease and Elegance Coral Syndrome

Fresh water dip is an effective treatment for external infections

www.reef2reef.com

Chee-tomorpha · Nov 11, 2022

Don't want to resurrect an old thread but I found it very useful. However, since I'm not experienced in keeping clams. Could someone let me know if my newest addition, about a month old, has PMD?

Clam is a about 1.25-1.5". Isn't attaching itself to the rock. Opens fairly wide but the mantle is tucked in where I circled. Hard to capture but a wavey section seems crinkled. No sign of mucus around the area. I have pods crawling all over it as there are no fish except for a mandrin I'm rehabilitating.

minus9 · Nov 14, 2022

That's not PMD, it's starvation. No new shell growth and mantle recession are signs that the clam is on its way out. It simply isn't (wasn't) getting enough light/nutrition.

Chee-tomorpha · Nov 14, 2022

minus9 said:
That's not PMD, it's starvation. No new shell growth and mantle recession are signs that the clam is on its way out. It simply isn't (wasn't) getting enough light/nutrition.

I'm glad it's not the disease and it does fall inline with my parameters. I ran tests yesterday to troubleshoot something else with an SPS and found my nitrates we're super low again and my phosphate is down by half.

I had targeted nitrates to be around 10 and phosphates around 0.1. I didn't adjust for the increase in lights so could explain why it went down. Are these target nutrient levels a good spot to try to keep around?

minus9 · Nov 14, 2022

Chee-tomorpha said:
I'm glad it's not the disease and it does fall inline with my parameters. I ran tests yesterday to troubleshoot something else with an SPS and found my nitrates we're super low again and my phosphate is down by half.

I had targeted nitrates to be around 10 and phosphates around 0.1. I didn't adjust for the increase in lights so could explain why it went down. Are these target nutrient levels a good spot to try to keep around?

If your nitrates are 1ppm or more you’re fine, same with phosphates, anything above .05 is good. It’s about ranges, not hard target numbers. Trying to hit a certain number always leads to problems, learn how read/observe your animals. As far as the clam is concerned, it doesn’t look good for the clam, which is what I was saying in your other thread, these animals need quality light and lots of it. When I see no new shell growth and the mantle starting to recede, it tells me that clam is on its way out. I don’t see clams coming back from this usually, but if you provide it enough light and maybe some extra nitrogen, it may pull through? You can’t force an animal to live/survive in subpar conditions because you can’t provide it with the necessary means to survive/thrive. Clams need a lot of light and in low light tanks, the sand bed is a certain death sentence of slow starvation.

Chee-tomorpha · Nov 14, 2022

Thanks again for the help. I'll try to stabilize around those levels. I'm also supplementing phyto as well.

For the lights, I have ramped up my lights to 100% max and reached it yesterday. From a BRS review of the AP700, I should be expecting 250-ish PAR range at the sand bed @18", and directly below the LED. Is this enough?

I am worried that the clam hasn't made any new white rings yet. It is a little over a month old now in my tank. When should a new ring form? The mantle looks very blue and healthy aside from not fully opening and some portions hidden. The mantle is a lot better now than when I received it and before I started ramping the lights.

minus9 · Nov 14, 2022

Chee-tomorpha said:
Thanks again for the help. I'll try to stabilize around those levels. I'm also supplementing phyto as well.

For the lights, I have ramped up my lights to 100% max and reached it yesterday. From a BRS review of the AP700, I should be expecting 250-ish PAR range at the sand bed @18", and directly below the LED. Is this enough?

I am worried that the clam hasn't made any new white rings yet. It is a little over a month old now in my tank. When should a new ring form? The mantle looks very blue and healthy aside from not fully opening and some portions hidden. The mantle is a lot better now than when I received it and before I started ramping the lights.

If you're actually getting 250+ micro moles at the sand bed for 8hrs a day, that may be enough? But for a clam that's starving and starting to decline, I'm not sure it is? Based on your other thread and what I see here, the clam was in subpar conditions to start with and that continued when you brought it home. It may pull through, but I'm very doubtful at this stage. Again, meeting bare minimums in keeping clams (and other animals) shouldn't be the goal or what we strive for, but providing optimal conditions should be the goal. Keeping clams is a lot different than throwing in a coral and hoping it's in the right place. Clams are not beginner or even novice animals to keep, they require special conditions. It's true that some are easier to keep, but that doesn't mean they're simple or you can simply put them in a tank and go. If you truly want to try and save the clam, it needs to be higher in the tank, regardless of what it's attached to or your rock scape. Maxima and croceas are not beginner clams, nor novice clams, so your mileage may vary upon your experience. Simply put, it's not going to survive on your sand bed at this stage. I wish I had better news, but this is a hard lesson to learn.