Please do a review/ article on the massive amount of red sea tank failures for the last five years

[BeanAnimal]

Man you just can’t admit that acrylic is stronger than glass. It’s that simple

When exactly were we debating the strength of materials?

you said this:

I said this:

THE ENTIRE POINT was in regard to your silly statement and the follow on that silicone must be replaced every 10 years.

You went on to construct several arguments that are figments of your own imagination.

To that end:
Seeing that you are our resident physics guru and I am too dumb to understand, can you explain "stronger" because that concept is somewhat nebulous to me.

Are we talking about tensile strength, sheer strength, modulus of elasticity, density, flexural rigidity, Mohs hardness, Poisson ratio?

Don't attempt to answer that please, the question is entirely rhetorical. It doesn't matter because it was not the topic of discussion.

 

[Coys]

Had another update from RS


Dear Karl,

After escalating your case to our Technical Support Manager, we would like to offer you as a gesture of goodwill a credit of 25% from the value of the tank. As the current price of the system is £1099, you would receive a credit of £275.00 towards the purchase of our new Reefer G2+ systems.
The new G2+ Reefer models have undergone significant changes and development, which include the new and improved water management system, the ReefATO+ system, and extra-fortified cabinets and aquariums. Reefer G2+ aquariums have armoured seem protectors, some models have increased glass thickness, and the cabinets are constructed from marine-grade plywood.

While Red sea does not sell directly to consumers and is committed towards supporting Certified Dealers, this is a special case, and therefore the purchase will be made directly between yourself and Red Sea.

Regarding the silicone we use, we have been selling aquariums for many years and have plenty of aquariums on the market. With our new Reefer G2+ aquariums we now offer an extended warranty option of 5 years to give customers extra peace of mind and we would like to include that free of charge if you decide on purchasing a new system.

 

[Coys]

Had another update from RS


Dear Karl,

After escalating your case to our Technical Support Manager, we would like to offer you as a gesture of goodwill a credit of 25% from the value of the tank. As the current price of the system is £1099, you would receive a credit of £275.00 towards the purchase of our new Reefer G2+ systems.
The new G2+ Reefer models have undergone significant changes and development, which include the new and improved water management system, the ReefATO+ system, and extra-fortified cabinets and aquariums. Reefer G2+ aquariums have armoured seem protectors, some models have increased glass thickness, and the cabinets are constructed from marine-grade plywood.

While Red sea does not sell directly to consumers and is committed towards supporting Certified Dealers, this is a special case, and therefore the purchase will be made directly between yourself and Red Sea.

Regarding the silicone we use, we have been selling aquariums for many years and have plenty of aquariums on the market. With our new Reefer G2+ aquariums we now offer an extended warranty option of 5 years to give customers extra peace of mind and we would like to include that free of charge if you decide on purchasing a new system.

I'm fairly sure that that isn't 25% off either as if they are selling to me direct it should be 25% off the trade price not retail

 

[brandon429]

They should offer 100%

25% is a rip off from a rip off company using people as unwitting beta testers

You deserve a free g2, not a discounted one, plus an extra stipend for them not having reached out before the break to warn you of hundreds of breaks in that production line they knew of

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

One would wonder, 25% off retail, buying directly from red sea, they're actually making money.

They'd have to offer 25% off of manufacturer price and eat shipping, for anyone to take that as a good faith gesture.

 

[Coys]

Still not gave up but had another reply this morning
(Red Sea Group)

Nov 12, 2023, 09:43 GMT

Hi Karl,

You can correspond with me through this interface.

I understand your disappointment with the failure of your aquarium, however, we believe that we have a fair and reasonable warranty policy. Furthermore, even though your aquarium is well outside of the warranty period we have made you an offer which is beyond our legal requirement.
Failure after almost five and a half years is not consistent with a manufacturing fault, especially when the failure is in the area of the side seam that is exposed to the repeated action of glass cleaners or scrapers.
Despite what you may have seen on the internet regarding our full range of aquarium systems, there have been an insignificant number of failures of your specific model. Having said that, I am not at liberty to provide any of the detailed product information that you have requested.

Please note that our warranty only covers the aquariums itself and expressly does not cover any incidental or consequential damages. The terms of our warranty were provided to you when you purchased the aquarium and are also available on our website.
There is a known risk in owning an aquarium and I recommend that you forward any claims for damages to your home insurance company.

Please get back to me when you have the appropriate legal advise.

Best Regards

 

[Trixter227]

I have ZERO stake in this except to point out that bulletproof windows are glass...... You know the big bank teller windows that are like 4 inches thick? Glass. Laminated glass my friend.

No need to. it’s common knowledge. just try Google. Glass tank makers don’t point out their flaws or publish such data, sometimes You have to think for yourself. . And your old glass tank does not show anything except yours was built well ,I have 100 plus gallon acrylic tanks that have been moved several times and don’t expect any leaks lol The one in our gameroom has taken a cue ball full force right in the middle and it didn’t crack. Let’s try that on a glass tank Are bullit proof windows made of glass or acrylic? Which will last longer?

 

[brandon429]

@Coys

That was an excellent info relay I'm glad you posted that. Horrendous response, shows they're hiding known failures

Terrible company, please email him this thread and post his response

Ask him if these owners of wet floors find the break rate insignificant

Somewhere out there a lawyer who does class action will see these threads littered across the web. Perhaps it'll take just a few more posted examples.

 

[reefrider777]

What a joke of a company. Good faith at 25% off retail, is laughable at best. Their email addresses the problems they had and their solution. I hope this is a warning for anybody that is looking to purchase a Red Sea tank. Red Sea is the new Deep Dimension.

 

[brandon429]

I hope they get emailed this thread, and we see the response to that email. I would never ever ever ever ever own a tank made by them due to that response, even if all breaks stopped right now

 

[brandon429]

Matter of fact can I get that guys email address I want to send him 100 break link examples. From this year alone, not the ones from 2012

anyone who posts new breaks I want them to email that guy

 

[Coys]

Matter of fact can I get that guys email address I want to send him 100 break link examples. From this year alone, not the ones from 2012

anyone who posts new breaks I want them to email that guy

I've emailed a link to the thread. Can't seen to get a direct email address just the one linked to my claim for a tank failing.

 

[Troylee]

I have ZERO stake in this except to point out that bulletproof windows are glass...... You know the big bank teller windows that are like 4 inches thick? Glass. Laminated glass my friend.

It’s actually acrylic and polycarbonate laminated together… I’ve had to build a few bullet proof screens through my work.. last one incased a million dollars cash.. weird stuff I must say! It drills and cuts like regular plastic but will stop a bullet! I’ve taken some scraps to the shooting range..

 

[Mr_Knightley]

I recently had a casual chat with a big custom aquarium manufacturer about this very subject. He's been in the business since before Red Sea was a thing, and has verified that Red Sea is a garbage brand. They sold cheap and lost money for the first decade or so to get people's trust, and once their competition was outsold they jacked the prices and lowered the quality because they had a faithful fan base that would keep buying no matter what.
AI Maxpect, Ecotech, etc. are all doing this same thing, now that they have loyal customer bases they are rapidly decreasing quality & raising cost.
This is a common business practice. It's not good for the consumer, but at a certain point (like with Amazon and Temu) you have no choice but to continue buying from them because the competition is dead in the water.

 

[brandon429]

The best testimony I’ve ever seen as to what someone can expect when needing Red Sea during a hard time was written by the employee above


even though I was not happy Red Sea was refusing to discuss breaks on social media, the fuel that runs this thread are unsolicited break examples they can’t erase and now added to the mix any employee feedback on the matter we can get. Those need to be our top references because it gives Red Sea a fair way to make change and grab the market back honorably


if they reached out preemptively to all gen one owners reasonably on file (their files, they have sales records) and changed them out for reinforced tanks, red sea’s full cost of course, people would report that positively and nobody would be pressing their employees to write things about break patterns


we need to give them a way to make a change course. Second hand relays remove that ability for them.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Sidebar:

Bullet Proof "Glass"

Can be anything from Acrylic to Polycarbonate to Glass to Laminated Glass and all kinds of hybrids in between. There are numerous configurations that are designed to deal with numerous different threats, velocities, single or repetitive strikes, etc.

Anyway.

Brandon - the reality is that fish stores sell the brand and their biggest market is fish stores and service providers. The VASTY majority of fish store sales and service install sales are NOT (repeat that over and over) to the clientele that habitate reef forums or reefing social media. The bulk of fish store traffic is moms, dads and individuals who blindly trust the LFS as the experts and most don't look much further. While threads like this may be a thorn in the side of a company, they mean very little to their overall sales. Likewise, for the small percentage of the demographic that will pay attention here, there are as many shill social media talking heads that promote the brand for their own benefit.

So - I highly doubt RedSea is going to pay much attention. In that same fashion, you leading this charge puts more of a target on you than it does them. What are you going to do at some point when they deem your crusade has crossed the line from free speech to libel? I am not defending them but you appear to want to wrestle a bull as a matter of point and I am not sure that is the best idea.

 

[707Nick]

Posted yesterday

paulgriffin971


I am dealing with this exact same issue right now--on 2 Red Sea Reefer tanks at the exact same time. And NONE of this is fraudulent--I've documented, have videos, and pictured stuff until my phone was battery dead at least 5 times now just to prove EXACTLY what's happened and when.

One tank is a RS 250 that I purchased just under 3 years ago. The other is a RS 625 XXL that I bought in September of 2020. The tanks aren't the only issue. It's also the REEFLED's that loose wifi and go off on some random schedule, as well that the power bricks that overheat to the point you can't even touch them, but I digress.

For being sold in so many stores, you would THINK Red Sea would be more apt to quality control, design, and testing before flooding the market with aquariums that SHOULD last 5-10-20 years. My Oceanic 90 gallon lasted 2 moves and 12 years, so something is up with these RS tanks.

I'm at the point of starting a class action so if anyone wants to join me let me know. My YT links are at the bottom of this post, but for those who want read about this journey, here's a little history on what has happened to me up until today:

1. Purchased a RS-170 max in 2018. Absolutely flawless tank. Never had an issue. Came as a kit with a AI Hydra 26 and mounting arm. When I say never had an issue, I mean NEVER. I simply out grew the tank, so went with the slightly larger 65 gallon RS-250 that had a sump.

2. A few months after I bought the 250, I pulled the trigger on a RS-625XXL that was on sale locally. It was supposedly the upgraded version that came with this new design of a metal brace to support the front of the cabinet between the two left-handed-most doors. I went with RS because of the success I had with the little 170, and--until that point--the 250. I was also impressed with the 3 year warranty.

3. In 2022 I started smelling a strange plastic smell in my living room where the 625 is located and couldn't trace it. Finally, I opened the door to equipment side and the ReefLed 90's power bricks were scalding hot to the point I could hardly touch them. I contacted RS and let them know, and they sent me new power bricks. New one's still got hot,but not quite as hot, so I figured problem solved.

4. From 2022 to 2023 I dealt with constant wifi connectivity issues with the ReefLed's. They would come un-grouped and totally forget what schedule I had programmed. I'd un-install, re-install, and then re-program--over, and over, and over again. Finally I found a couple used Kessil AP700's, installed those, and put the RS 90's aside. Haven't had a lighting issue since.

3. Earlier this year-- 2023, the silicone sections that held the sump dividers on the RS625 came away from the sides and caused my skimmer to overflow and my ATO float to go bonkers. I contacted RS, and they sent me a replacement sump. I asked about getting an upgraded sump (based on their new design and materials) so that I could buy their new ReefMat 1200 and not have to cut the silicone, but they said the newer sumps weren't capatible, and that they stopped making the 625XXL. About a week later, I got the replacement sump, had to take all my equipment apart, and then re-install the new one. But I was able to install a new ReefMat 1200 while the repalcement sump was out. Happy with he replacement and the RM1200, and went on with life. So far, so good---so I thought....

4. On April 21, 2023 at 7pm PDT, this past Friday, I was sitting in my recliner eating a sandwich and heard what I thought was a mountain stream on the TV show I was watching. But--I was watching Bing Bang Theory; No streams there.... It sounding like something was leaking but I didn't see anything with the 625 that was directly across from me in my chair, so I hit the TV mute button. Then I realized it was coming frrom behind me in my dining room were the Reefer 250 was. I got up, turned around and the bottom front glass was spraying water like one of those little bird-bath-peeing-boy-angels. I mean----like a steady stream. Grabbed a bucket and scrambled around for the next 5-6 hours with buckets, mop, rubbermaid tub, and towels. Made sure to grab my phone too--for documenting the damage, the equipment failure, and the pain and suffering I had to deal with. Both for future litigation and for a potential homeowners claim.

5. At about 10:30 PM I finally had all the salt water mopped up, the tank, cabinet, and equipment all moved outside, the live rock placed into a rubbermaid, and started to really evaluate the damage. During the process of dealing with he 250, I thought, "OH crap, if this is happening on my 250 tank, what about my big 625 with my close to $20,000 worth of corals and fish??!!!

6. Low and behold, I looked at my 625 and sure enough the bottom silicone was separating in the EXACT same area as everyone else's is having the issue, and in the EXACT SAME place where the 250 silicone failed on mine. It wasn't quite leaking yet, but you could see the silicone had about 10% to go before it below the front glass pane out and I would have close to 150 gallons of saltwater and bacteria on my hardwood flooring. I was LIVID! But--I had the PROOF and I had it all on VIDEO and ALL documented since this journey to Red Sea hell commenced.

7. I went the the place where I had purchased the tanks and was told only Red Sea can deal with your issues. OK, that's cool the LFS didn't do anything wrong. So, I contacted Red Sea and asked them what they intended to do. I informed them that I wanted one of their reps to come to my home and see the tanks for themselves and to negotiate a settlement on how they were going to make me whole. If I was in business this is EXACTLY what I would do--spend $2000 on airline ticket to come to a customers home or business and see EXACTLY what has happened to TWO of the tanks my company manufactured. Or better yet, make a few stops around the country where SEVERAL of my company's tanks were failing to get to the bottom of what's going on.

8. On Monday April 24 I got a response from RS to the effect of, "We're sorry, we can't find your proof of purchase. Please send it to us. (I should emphasize here that even though you have to upload your proof of purchase, serial number, address, and email in order to get the 12 month extended warranty for a total of 3 years, they wanted me to send it to them AGAIN to prove that I in fact bought the tank) "Also, please start a separate claim on the 625 and if it's going to fail, drain it." I'm like--drain it? And put it where? And what about my $20K worth of corals, fish and equipment? Do I just go buy another tank and then you all send me a replacement in 2-3 weeks that is based on the EXACT same design and material flaws as those that failed with the tanks I have now? The same tanks that aren't even 3 years old that are blowing out? Have got to be kidding me....

And this is where I sit today. One tank blew out and one on the way to blowing out.

Like I said, as far as I'm concerned a class-action is coming because this company KNOWS of the material issues with their tanks and they KEEP sending out tanks based on the EXACT SAME design flaw that is readily known by both them and the public. As a matter of fact, RS had to upgrade the cabinets on the 600 and 700 series tanks with that little cabinet brace, had several tank failures across their larger tank lines, and then came out with Reefer G2's and the far superior tank bracing--even some with METAL cabinets and euro bracing. But guess what? They completely discontinued the 625 and 700 series tanks all together. Coincidence? And why is it that their tanks all seem to fail right around that 2.5 to 3 year mark of the warranty period? Yet another coincidence?

I'm sorry and I know I blew your thread up, but I am beyond ticked. Like I said a class action is coming, so if any of you would be interested in pursuing one with me, let me know. I'm in CA where we have some pretty stringent consumer laws pertaining to companies that sell faulty and similarly dangerous equipment. Could a person be maimed or killed by a 165- gallon glass aquarium made with faulty materials, means, and methods blowing out while said person tried to perform the simple task of looking at their fish and coral. I would venture to say yes......

Anyway, you all can follow along on my journey with these tanks on my youtube channel here:

Great read dirty for the awful experience my wife just bought me an G2 1000xxl have not set up yet but boy oh boy I’m sure a bit weary now. Haven’t herd much about problems with the new G2 series.

 

[ninjamyst]

Great read dirty for the awful experience my wife just bought me an G2 1000xxl have not set up yet but boy oh boy I’m sure a bit weary now. Haven’t herd much about problems with the new G2 series.

Enjoy your new tank. Don't let the fear mongering get to you.

 

[Cell]

Enjoy your new tank. Don't let the fear mongering get to you.

You call all these personal accounts of people dealing with the nightmare of a tank failure, "fear-mongering"?

That's a fanboy response.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Enjoy your new tank. Don't let the fear mongering get to you.

At this point in the thread and with the information found here and other sites, I would call that sentiment either grossly naive or purposefully disparaging. No clue what the motivation is.

Great read dirty for the awful experience my wife just bought me an G2 1000xxl have not set up yet but boy oh boy I’m sure a bit weary now. Haven’t herd much about problems with the new G2 series.

Nick - Somebody else can speak up, but I don't think I have seen reports like this for the G2.