0 phosphate effects....

[am3gross]

So, I have been trying to lower my phosphates over the last 2 weeks.. was .15, down to .06 or so I think... Ever since trying to get the PO4 down, I have experienced more Cyano, and now, some STN on a few acros. I checked some one elses water with the same hannah checker that I use, and his was high, .3.... Why is that important you ask. Because it made me think my checker was off, and when I used the manual Salifert test, my water came back at 0.... So here are my questions and thoughts..

Thought:
The PO4 being 0 is causing the cyano and the STN, because I am starving the corals of food, even thou my nitrates are at 10.

Question:

Am I correct? And if so my plan is to start feeding more over the next few days to see if I can start to see any differences in anything and or see if the STN slows down.

 

[Reffetsevla]

So, I have been trying to lower my phosphates over the last 2 weeks.. was .15, down to .06 or so I think... Ever since trying to get the PO4 down, I have experienced more Cyano, and now, some STN on a few acros. I checked some one elses water with the same hannah checker that I use, and his was high, .3.... Why is that important you ask. Because it made me think my checker was off, and when I used the manual Salifert test, my water came back at 0.... So here are my questions and thoughts..

Thought:
The PO4 being 0 is causing the cyano and the STN, because I am starving the corals of food, even thou my nitrates are at 10.

Question:

Am I correct? And if so my plan is to start feeding more over the next few days to see if I can start to see any differences in anything and or see if the STN slows down.

I believe you are correct. Bottoming out at 0 will cause adverse effects in coral as it does starve them some, but the cyano and dinos can then start out competing the good bacteria and you will see them bloom.

I got rid of mine by dosing live phyto and feeding more. Still fighting 0's occasionally on the PO4 but I no longer see any dinos and my SPS growth has been great. My Milli is my "PO4 sensor" lol Once it shows less polyp extension. I know it's time to dose or increase feeding even more.

Edit to ask if you run a skimmer? Might be worth while to run it dry or on a timer. Could help as well. I'm ending up having to turn off my fuge for a bit here and there as well.

 

[ggNoRe]

I recently had a similar experience. My po3 was testing .17 via Hanna so I lowered it to .07 and had several SPS STN. I have had ICP saying my po3 was .03 around the same time. I also doubt the validity of my Hanna. Sorry I can not answer your question directly as I have not been successful in keeping SPS so hopefully some more experienced/successful reefers will chime in. But I thought it was worth mentioning.

My plan going forward is just to let my tank decide where it wants to keep my po3 and not try to force it to a certain number as long as I'm doing my normal maintenance I have convinced myself the number doesn't matter.

 

[CoralB]

Zeroing out your phosphates can lead to cyano and Dino’s . As to whether or not your tester is incorrect I can’t say but I would figure it out quick .

 

[IslandLifeReef]

This is your second thread today. The first was about tests before Triton, so I assume you have started using the Triton method. In that post, you say that nothing has changed. In this post, you say that you have been trying and succeeding in reducing PO4.

The Cyano you are experiencing could be caused by a nutrient imbalance. Do you have the calibrated standard for your Hannah checker? If not, getting that standard should tell you if your checks is measuring correctly or not.

Changing to the Triton method along with lowering PO4 could be he cause of the STN. SPS like stability. Multiple changes causes stress, and as a result, possible STN.

 

[am3gross]

This is your second thread today. The first was about tests before Triton, so I assume you have started using the Triton method. In that post, you say that nothing has changed. In this post, you say that you have been trying and succeeding in reducing PO4.

The Cyano you are experiencing could be caused by a nutrient imbalance. Do you have the calibrated standard for your Hannah checker? If not, getting that standard should tell you if your checks is measuring correctly or not.

Changing to the Triton method along with lowering PO4 could be he cause of the STN. SPS like stability. Multiple changes causes stress, and as a result, possible STN.

I have not been doing the triton method, just used the triton ICP test to see where my parameters are at according to them and what I have.
As far as nothing changing, my highest po4 reading according to the checker was .15 and the lowest was .04, but I have doubts now that I may have figured out my checker may be way off..

And this is my 2nd post, but been on the forum reading a bit today and one of the posts I seen where someone else raised there PO4 to .1 and started to have some success, which sparked my thoughts here

 

[Reffetsevla]

I have not been doing the triton method, just used the triton ICP test to see where my parameters are at according to them and what I have.
As far as nothing changing, my highest po4 reading according to the checker was .15 and the lowest was .04, but I have doubts now that I may have figured out my checker may be way off..

And this is my 2nd post, but been on the forum reading a bit today and one of the posts I seen where someone else raised there PO4 to .1 and started to have some success, which sparked my thoughts here

If you are using the LR, not the ULR, then your variance is going to be +/-0.04. So if you test at 0.04, you could actually be 0.01 which is low. I hesitate to say you could be 0.00 because it detected something. I use the LR because I'm a moron and ordered the wrong one. So my goal is 0.10. That way I'm below .15 and above 0.06, which I think is good for a mixed reef.

 

[am3gross]

If you are using the LR, not the ULR, then your variance is going to be +/-0.04. So if you test at 0.04, you could actually be 0.01 which is low. I hesitate to say you could be 0.00 because it detected something. I use the LR because I'm a moron and ordered the wrong one. So my goal is 0.10. That way I'm below .15 and above 0.06, which I think is good for a mixed reef.

mine is the ULR. looking into the cal solution now

 

[IslandLifeReef]

mine is the ULR. looking into the cal solution now

I have not been doing the triton method, just used the triton ICP test to see where my parameters are at according to them and what I have.
As far as nothing changing, my highest po4 reading according to the checker was .15 and the lowest was .04, but I have doubts now that I may have figured out my checker may be way off..

And this is my 2nd post, but been on the forum reading a bit today and one of the posts I seen where someone else raised there PO4 to .1 and started to have some success, which sparked my thoughts here

Ok, that makes since. I run my tank between 0.01-0.03 PO4 and have for years. I don't use anything except a skimmer. The Cyano could be caused by excess organics in the tank that we don't measure. There is a lot more to water chemistry than we test for. That is why I don't try to chase numbers, I just try to keep them stable and let my corals tell me if they are happy. I run a mixed reef.

What was the result of your ICP test or are you still waiting for the results? What were you doing to bring down the PO4?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What were you doing to get nutrients down?

I do not see any way or any convincing reports of low phosphate itself causing cyano.

Low nutrients does contribute to dinos, presumably by hurting something living that is competing with the dinos (say, algae). That effect does not seem to come into play with cyano, unless you are giving them lots of organic carbon that they can use to grow.

Certainly, excessively low N or P can hurt corals.

 

[am3gross]

Ok, that makes since. I run my tank between 0.01-0.03 PO4 and have for years. I don't use anything except a skimmer. The Cyano could be caused by excess organics in the tank that we don't measure. There is a lot more to water chemistry than we test for. That is why I don't try to chase numbers, I just try to keep them stable and let my corals tell me if they are happy. I run a mixed reef.

What was the result of your ICP test or are you still waiting for the results? What were you doing to bring down the PO4?

I am still waiting results. I have added some phosphate e twice, but really did not see constant results with it.

 

[am3gross]

What were you doing to get nutrients down?

I do not see any way or any convincing reports of low phosphate itself causing cyano.

Low nutrients does contribute to dinos, presumably by hurting something living that is competing with the dinos (say, algae). That effect does not seem to come into play with cyano, unless you are giving them lots of organic carbon that they can use to grow.

Certainly, excessively low N or P can hurt corals.

I feel like I have always had some sort of Dino’s in the tank, I have treated in the past for cyano with the red slime remover, and what I have has always been what was left over from the cyano.. a light pink nuisance that I just could not get rid of.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

I feel like I have always had some sort of Dino’s in the tank, I have treated in the past for cyano with the red slime remover, and what I have has always been what was left over from the cyano.. a light pink nuisance that I just could not get rid of.

I am still waiting results. I have added some phosphate e twice, but really did not see constant results with it.

Pictures of your tank might help. How old is your tank? The problem with chemicals such as chemiclean is that unless you address the cause of the cyano, it will come back.

Phosphate binds to the rock and sand. If you dose a product such as Phosphate E, it will remove the available PO4 in the water. You will see a reduction in PO4. Then, the tank will try to reach equilibrium and release the bound PO4 in the rocks and sand, and you will then see PO4 increase again.

 

[am3gross]

Pictures of your tank might help. How old is your tank? The problem with chemicals such as chemiclean is that unless you address the cause of the cyano, it will come back.

Phosphate binds to the rock and sand. If you dose a product such as Phosphate E, it will remove the available PO4 in the water. You will see a reduction in PO4. Then, the tank will try to reach equilibrium and release the bound PO4 in the rocks and sand, and you will then see PO4 increase again.

Yeah, I really am not a fan of adding chemicals. I ordered a Phosphorus checker, and the calibration fluid to go with it. I am going to see where I am at and maybe come at it at a different angle. All my tests have been stable while checking manually.. Trates, Cal, Alk, Mag, and Salinity. So hopefully when I get the new checker It will give me a better view of what is going on.