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tharbin
2500 Club Member
Make that four. Looks like I need to design some kind of a hanger for it and set my old 3d printer back up. My new 3d printer had a recall so it is out of commission for the moment.
100 Gallon Lagoon-style acrylic AIO
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tharbin
2500 Club Member
Warning - rant
TLDR; I want some more live stuff in my tank like 'the old days'.
I've been subscribed to the Top Shelf Aquatics YouTube channel for a few months. As part of the giveaway promotion they are currently running they are doing a daily video bonus where you watch one of their videos and discuss it in the thread. Anyway; today's video was the part 2 video they did on clean up crews. I had watched the video when it came out but I rewatched it today to have it fresh in my memory. What I really liked about the video is that it didn't just discuss crabs, conches, shrimp and snails. It discussed macro algae, worms, sponges (but left out tunicates) and even our corals. In my 'discussion' on the thread I went on a little mini-rant that made me reflect back on my years in the hobby.
This will be another mini-rant (well after writing it maybe not so mini) as sometimes the best way for me to organize my thoughts is to put them down on paper, or in this case, pixels, in a public place so that it forces me to be somewhat coherent. Sorry in advance.
When I started in the hobby in the late 70s we didn't have much freely available hands-on hobbyist knowledge or saltwater-oriented equipment so a lot of DIY, experimentation and tragic mistakes. If we didn't have Instant Ocean, at least in the US, many of us probably would not have started in the hobby.
I don't want to think of how many anemones and goniopora I killed in the early days of my journey. I started, like many at the time, with reverse-flow under-gravel filters, with a fairly thick aragonite sand bed and dead coral skeletons, mainly previously porites, pavonas, acroporas and organ pipes. My first tank's centerpiece was a chunk of red organ pipe coral skeleton that was bigger than a basketball. We tried all kinds of ideas like CO2 injectors, adding every kind of saltwater critter we could find... Lots of things. The fish did great, the other stuff (at least for me) not so much. I also was able to grow massive and impressive displays of gha.
For me the big change came in the 80s. Live rock, wet/dry filters, propeller pumps, I don't remember now when we started converting MaxiJets with toy boat propellers but it sure helped. Then the Berlin method. Keeping saltwater critters other than fish thriving was working and all of those pieces played a part. We had a better understanding of the importance of the bacteria beyond just the initial cycle, the need for bio-diversity and we started to wonder at all the life that seemingly came from nowhere on our rocks. I think this was also when we got that marvel of reef-keeping, Kalkwasser, oh, and two-part.
Okay enough boring memory-lane stuff. The video got me thinking about my favorite tanks and how algae problems, while sometimes present, were never the plague proportions that seem so prevalent today. Those tanks were all started with indo-pacific live rock, obviously after a lot of very smelly, messy and time-consuming cleaning. But I remember beautiful little fields of delicate yellow tunicates, brilliant orange, red or blue sponges, brittle stars, hundreds and hundreds of tiny feather-duster worms and bristle worms, lots of bristle worms--too many bristle worms. There were also all kinds of macro algae, but hardly any gha. Cyano might happen from time to time but it never took hold.
Okay so finally to today and what any of this nostalgia has to do with my lagoon. I did not add any live rock when I set up this tank. I totally avoided artificial rock and even limited quarried rock. The tank is mainly old 'base rock'. I have added one piece that I believe started its journey to a reef tank as Marco rock several years ago in some other tank and I have added about six pounds of Stax to use for sand bed stabilization and coral platforms. I think the quarried rock is superior to manmade rock but still much denser and more compacted than true base rock from the ocean. I think the rock in my tank is working well for bio-filtration and I like the look but I miss the tunicates and sponges and...
I thought about using live rock from one of the US suppliers when I set up the tank but I had two issues that prevented me from going there. First was that the rock they provide is farmed quarried rock, not their fault it's all they're allowed to farm, and I'm only partially bought into quarried rock. The second is a prejudice or maybe some weird snobbery, I prefer stuff form the indo-pacific or Australia to the Caribbean in most cases. I think it is more what I am used to than an actual prejudice although I've had lots on Caribbean macro algae, gorgonians and who knows what else over the years. My best reefing years were filled with Tongan this and Fijian that. Don't get me wrong I love all of the new gear, the extended knowledge base and the easy to access to information like on Reef2Reef but I do miss the Pukani-this and Marshall Islands that.
There I go again. I'll try to get to the point. I tried to make up for it when I built the Waterbox 15 gallon Peninsula by adding some Live Reef Rubble from AquaBiomics to the tank. It was tiny bits of reef rubble from the indo-pacific. In some ways it was great but in others not so much. I believe I did not have enough of it to do what I intended. A few neat looking macro algae started from it and it corallined up nicely but it also introduced Bryopsis to the tank and there weren't enough other things to counteract the Bryopsis. If I had started with several of the Live Reef Rubble jars and maybe quarried or base rock I believe the idea might have worked but the man-made rock may look pretty but it just isn't the same. I still have a little of the rubble in the lagoon but only after it suffered through being in a sump, peroxide treatments and numerous scrubbings, Now it is just base-rubble. I do believe my base/quarried rock is doing superb job of bio-filtration but I want some rock or rubble that has sponges and tunicates and...
I just don't know yet where I will get it, probably from TBS or KPA. Enough rant. I just know I want to see some 'other stuff' in the aquarium again.
TLDR; I want some more live stuff in my tank like 'the old days'.
I've been subscribed to the Top Shelf Aquatics YouTube channel for a few months. As part of the giveaway promotion they are currently running they are doing a daily video bonus where you watch one of their videos and discuss it in the thread. Anyway; today's video was the part 2 video they did on clean up crews. I had watched the video when it came out but I rewatched it today to have it fresh in my memory. What I really liked about the video is that it didn't just discuss crabs, conches, shrimp and snails. It discussed macro algae, worms, sponges (but left out tunicates) and even our corals. In my 'discussion' on the thread I went on a little mini-rant that made me reflect back on my years in the hobby.
This will be another mini-rant (well after writing it maybe not so mini) as sometimes the best way for me to organize my thoughts is to put them down on paper, or in this case, pixels, in a public place so that it forces me to be somewhat coherent. Sorry in advance.
When I started in the hobby in the late 70s we didn't have much freely available hands-on hobbyist knowledge or saltwater-oriented equipment so a lot of DIY, experimentation and tragic mistakes. If we didn't have Instant Ocean, at least in the US, many of us probably would not have started in the hobby.
I don't want to think of how many anemones and goniopora I killed in the early days of my journey. I started, like many at the time, with reverse-flow under-gravel filters, with a fairly thick aragonite sand bed and dead coral skeletons, mainly previously porites, pavonas, acroporas and organ pipes. My first tank's centerpiece was a chunk of red organ pipe coral skeleton that was bigger than a basketball. We tried all kinds of ideas like CO2 injectors, adding every kind of saltwater critter we could find... Lots of things. The fish did great, the other stuff (at least for me) not so much. I also was able to grow massive and impressive displays of gha.
For me the big change came in the 80s. Live rock, wet/dry filters, propeller pumps, I don't remember now when we started converting MaxiJets with toy boat propellers but it sure helped. Then the Berlin method. Keeping saltwater critters other than fish thriving was working and all of those pieces played a part. We had a better understanding of the importance of the bacteria beyond just the initial cycle, the need for bio-diversity and we started to wonder at all the life that seemingly came from nowhere on our rocks. I think this was also when we got that marvel of reef-keeping, Kalkwasser, oh, and two-part.
Okay enough boring memory-lane stuff. The video got me thinking about my favorite tanks and how algae problems, while sometimes present, were never the plague proportions that seem so prevalent today. Those tanks were all started with indo-pacific live rock, obviously after a lot of very smelly, messy and time-consuming cleaning. But I remember beautiful little fields of delicate yellow tunicates, brilliant orange, red or blue sponges, brittle stars, hundreds and hundreds of tiny feather-duster worms and bristle worms, lots of bristle worms--too many bristle worms. There were also all kinds of macro algae, but hardly any gha. Cyano might happen from time to time but it never took hold.
Okay so finally to today and what any of this nostalgia has to do with my lagoon. I did not add any live rock when I set up this tank. I totally avoided artificial rock and even limited quarried rock. The tank is mainly old 'base rock'. I have added one piece that I believe started its journey to a reef tank as Marco rock several years ago in some other tank and I have added about six pounds of Stax to use for sand bed stabilization and coral platforms. I think the quarried rock is superior to manmade rock but still much denser and more compacted than true base rock from the ocean. I think the rock in my tank is working well for bio-filtration and I like the look but I miss the tunicates and sponges and...
I thought about using live rock from one of the US suppliers when I set up the tank but I had two issues that prevented me from going there. First was that the rock they provide is farmed quarried rock, not their fault it's all they're allowed to farm, and I'm only partially bought into quarried rock. The second is a prejudice or maybe some weird snobbery, I prefer stuff form the indo-pacific or Australia to the Caribbean in most cases. I think it is more what I am used to than an actual prejudice although I've had lots on Caribbean macro algae, gorgonians and who knows what else over the years. My best reefing years were filled with Tongan this and Fijian that. Don't get me wrong I love all of the new gear, the extended knowledge base and the easy to access to information like on Reef2Reef but I do miss the Pukani-this and Marshall Islands that.
There I go again. I'll try to get to the point. I tried to make up for it when I built the Waterbox 15 gallon Peninsula by adding some Live Reef Rubble from AquaBiomics to the tank. It was tiny bits of reef rubble from the indo-pacific. In some ways it was great but in others not so much. I believe I did not have enough of it to do what I intended. A few neat looking macro algae started from it and it corallined up nicely but it also introduced Bryopsis to the tank and there weren't enough other things to counteract the Bryopsis. If I had started with several of the Live Reef Rubble jars and maybe quarried or base rock I believe the idea might have worked but the man-made rock may look pretty but it just isn't the same. I still have a little of the rubble in the lagoon but only after it suffered through being in a sump, peroxide treatments and numerous scrubbings, Now it is just base-rubble. I do believe my base/quarried rock is doing superb job of bio-filtration but I want some rock or rubble that has sponges and tunicates and...
I just don't know yet where I will get it, probably from TBS or KPA. Enough rant. I just know I want to see some 'other stuff' in the aquarium again.
TheWB
Valuable Member
Have you looked into these options for some additional biodiversity. I have used the Info Pacific product and it seemed like it was beneficial but hard to really tell.
: : : : Indo-Pacific Sea Farms : : : :
Indo-Pacific Sea Farms produces captive-bred marine life for healthier reef aquariums: invertebrates, detritivores, live sand, snail grazers, amphipods, beneficial worms, macro algae, plankton, corals, coral food and beneficial bacteria.
ipsf.com
Live Mud
Choose the dark "muddy" mineral mud from which the seagrasses thrive OR Grey Keys Mud, rich in calcium.
Live Sand
Choose Golden color dolomite/silica based or White calcium/aragonite based Sand.
None of this will add the macro and other things you mentioned that really only comes from live rock from the ocean but it's a start.
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tharbin
2500 Club Member
Thanks for the links. I have been considering some IPSF offerings, more Live Reef Rubble or Live Reef Sand from AquaBiomics and BS/KPA live rock. I'll look at the other two you sent me. I almost bought some of the Australian Live Rock that Unique Aquariums (I think that was who it was) brought in a while back. Not sure why I didn't buy it other than maybe sticker-shock.Have you looked into these options for some additional biodiversity. I have used the Info Pacific product and it seemed like it was beneficial but hard to really tell.
I have not used either of the following but I saw them referenced on another thread.: : : : Indo-Pacific Sea Farms : : : :
Indo-Pacific Sea Farms produces captive-bred marine life for healthier reef aquariums: invertebrates, detritivores, live sand, snail grazers, amphipods, beneficial worms, macro algae, plankton, corals, coral food and beneficial bacteria.ipsf.com
andLive Mud
Choose the dark "muddy" mineral mud from which the seagrasses thrive OR Grey Keys Mud, rich in calcium.floridapets.com
For the price they seem worth trying out.Live Sand
Choose Golden color dolomite/silica based or White calcium/aragonite based Sand.
None of this will add the macro and other things you mentioned that really only comes from live rock from the ocean but it's a start.
Highly recommend TBS for adding "stuff". I started my 40 with 1/3rd TBS that had been running in my nano over a year and the other two third were Fiji and Marshall Islands reef rocks dried out in another reefer's garage for years. That stuff purpled up in no time, and I've got dusters all over the tank. Wish I had gotten more of those rocks.
TheWB
Valuable Member
I'm going to use some of the TBS rubble or base rock in my new tank, and also at least some of their live sand. I'm kinda glad that they aren't shipping again until April because I've been in a little trouble with my wife over how much I've spent so far on the new build. That Australian stuff was spendy, I can see why you decided to wait.
Been there! "You bought a plane ticket for ROCKS!?!?"
TheWB
Valuable Member
I know, right. Hard to understand if you don't do what we do.
That's how I got into my current mess. Casually mention that I need to upgrade (insert name of equipment here) for a new build and then explain that it's on sale. Rinse and repeat over the last 6 months to a year. And as you well know, those upgrades were based on acquiring a new tank that was supposed to come with a very large discount that didn't end up working out. Oops. Had to get something for all that new equipment to go with so.................
Full price for everything. Doh!!
BubblesandSqueak
Valuable Member
funny. she didn't notice my ticket ;-)
TheWB
Valuable Member
Great, I have the same one so I guess I can look forward to the same problem.
My filter wall is different than yours is so I don"t think a hanger will work.
I might need some sort of stand. Or I might try to put it between chambers 1 and 2, so under the Klir-7 and partially sharing space with the skimmer?
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tharbin
2500 Club Member
To be fair to the Green Killing Machine, it did not come off when I originally installed it, nor did it come off when I moved it to the back wall. It never started coming off until I removed it again to clean the algae off of it. I've had similar things happen to almost every suction-cup-equipped piece of saltwater aquarium equipment I have ever owned. It happened to my nice new BRS heater element the second day it was in my tank.
Anyway, I removed the UV last night as it came off again less than an hour after I reinstalled it. I checked AA Aquariums web site and it does not look like they sell replacement suction cups. I originally thought about putting the UV in chamber 2 by putting it in on an angle or by changing the connecting pipe from an elbow to a straight pipe but I didn't really want it in the sump.
I may make hangers for it to put it back in the display. Since it is out of the tank anyway, I will also relook at putting it in the sump but I would need to move the not-yet-established fuge from chamber 2 to chamber 3 as I would not want the UV between the fuge and the display.
With your 8" sump depth I think that having it share space with the skimmer is most likely possible. I actually like the design of the Green Killing Machine as it is really three parts; a waterproofed UV chamber with an integral filtered intake and round outflow port, a 90 degree elbow and a low-flow return pump. There is no reason the pump must be attached to the UV chamber directly. You could even use a flex fitting between the two.
BubblesandSqueak
Valuable Member
a couple frag magnets and some crazy glue should work.
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tharbin
2500 Club Member
That's not a bad idea that I didn't even consider. I do prefer magnetic coupling to suction cups by a significant margin although I tend to pick 'just the right spot' in the tank for stuff only to realize I can't put the magnet behind that particular spot...
I am thinking about going ahead and moving the UV to the sump anyway as it is acting as not much more than a water clarifier at this point. I don't actually notice the UV in the tank (except when it is floating around on the surface) but moving it to the sump would be one less distraction in the display and one less thing to clean in the display. Even if I move it though a magnetic holder would be the way to go. I haven't looked into waterproofing magnets but I think I will.
BubblesandSqueak
Valuable Member
personally, I'd just glue it right to a frag rack. the magnets are already waterproofed and this would give you a few inches to glue it to the unit. could even glue it in the water so you don't have to disconnect it. probably $20 on amazon or anywhere else. Or if you want to be creative, buy a small PVC fitting and cut a piece out so it makes it into a clamp and glue the magnet to that so it's still detachable from the UV housing.
Even cheaper with no gluing....Zip ties to the magnetic frag?
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tharbin
2500 Club Member
Update time.
I got the Nero 3 running again. I'm not sure why it quit, it wasn't very dirty but it seems to be working okay for now. I'll just keep an eye on it for a little while. I'm still going to look at alternate flow devices but at least my flow is working again so I can take my time with it. While I was at it I made a change to the flow setup based on current tank inhabitants. I raised all three of the Nero 3s a couple of inches higher so that the flow is more directed to the island crests where the stick-type stuff will live; I lowered the pulse time on the two outside Neros from 25 seconds on/off to 20 seconds and will probably lower it a bit more; I lowered the pulse strength from 75% to 65% on them as well. I did not change the center Nero it is still random 50% medium. Those changes are because I have more LPS than I originally planned on and I'm going to have fewer sticks than originally planned. I think the pulse time is still a little long but I want to move it down in 5 second intervals over several days until I get about what I want.
I also lowered the lighting by 20% to see how the corals are reacting. I put it into 'acclimation mode' to do it since actually changing the light schedule on Primes is a royal pain on a smallish phone. If I like what I see in a week or so I'll go ahead and modify the schedule.
Lastly I ordered some snails from ReefCleaners. One of my favorite snails to have in a tank is a Dwarf Cerith but I can't get them locally and I only have a few left now from the old Waterbox. Since they're cheap and the shipping isn't I went ahead and ordered snails that I would normally buy locally like Astrea and Trochus to make it worth the shipping.
I got the Nero 3 running again. I'm not sure why it quit, it wasn't very dirty but it seems to be working okay for now. I'll just keep an eye on it for a little while. I'm still going to look at alternate flow devices but at least my flow is working again so I can take my time with it. While I was at it I made a change to the flow setup based on current tank inhabitants. I raised all three of the Nero 3s a couple of inches higher so that the flow is more directed to the island crests where the stick-type stuff will live; I lowered the pulse time on the two outside Neros from 25 seconds on/off to 20 seconds and will probably lower it a bit more; I lowered the pulse strength from 75% to 65% on them as well. I did not change the center Nero it is still random 50% medium. Those changes are because I have more LPS than I originally planned on and I'm going to have fewer sticks than originally planned. I think the pulse time is still a little long but I want to move it down in 5 second intervals over several days until I get about what I want.
I also lowered the lighting by 20% to see how the corals are reacting. I put it into 'acclimation mode' to do it since actually changing the light schedule on Primes is a royal pain on a smallish phone. If I like what I see in a week or so I'll go ahead and modify the schedule.
Lastly I ordered some snails from ReefCleaners. One of my favorite snails to have in a tank is a Dwarf Cerith but I can't get them locally and I only have a few left now from the old Waterbox. Since they're cheap and the shipping isn't I went ahead and ordered snails that I would normally buy locally like Astrea and Trochus to make it worth the shipping.
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tharbin
2500 Club Member
FTS (Tuesday?) Oh well it is what it is.
First thing I see every day after lights on:
That's the idiot Foxface begging for some mysis.
Moving the Neros up has opened up the scape a little and lowering the lights to 80%, of my previous setting, so far seems to be okay with the SPS and liked by the LPS. I've reduced the pulse time between left and right Neros from 20 seconds to fifteen seconds and may go a little lower. Trying to find a good balance between the surges to allow the LPS to flow but not need to retract. It's getting there.
Raising the Neros also seems to have made the right side island more agreeable as I saw the Firefish checking out the cave last night and again today. Fingers crossed. I also saw the Foxface back near the sump wall for the first time. It's the little things that all add up to make a tank work. If you can't succeed with knowledge and skill, patience and dumb luck sometimes works out.
I moved a bunch of the corals around to be near were I think they will end up to make sure the light and flow agrees with them in their new locations. I still need a few corals for the right hand end but I'll see what pops up at the LFSs.
I moved the Purple Rim Trumpet to a lower light area at the end as I think it is a deeper water variant than the Kryptonite. I also moved my original acan to be hear the new Rainbow Acan. As you can see the Pigface polished off his Nori before bed last night.
Kind of hard to see but the Tropicana Anacropora (the plug to the left of the Peach Hammer) will probably go on top of the rock behind him. The Tubbs will probably go on the flat rock where the acan used to be and the Purple Stylo will probably go on the low portion of the left island near center tank. I will probably regret it as it is an absolute weed in the tank but I really like the rich purple polyps swaying and the mint green tips. I'm putting both the Tubbs and the Stylo low in the tank so they have room to grow. Hope I don't regret it.
The orange monti cap is finally starting to plate out again so I'm going to wait to site anything in that area until I see what it is going to do.
This is all subject to change based on how they react over the next week or so to their new homes.
First thing I see every day after lights on:
That's the idiot Foxface begging for some mysis.
Moving the Neros up has opened up the scape a little and lowering the lights to 80%, of my previous setting, so far seems to be okay with the SPS and liked by the LPS. I've reduced the pulse time between left and right Neros from 20 seconds to fifteen seconds and may go a little lower. Trying to find a good balance between the surges to allow the LPS to flow but not need to retract. It's getting there.
Raising the Neros also seems to have made the right side island more agreeable as I saw the Firefish checking out the cave last night and again today. Fingers crossed. I also saw the Foxface back near the sump wall for the first time. It's the little things that all add up to make a tank work. If you can't succeed with knowledge and skill, patience and dumb luck sometimes works out.
I moved a bunch of the corals around to be near were I think they will end up to make sure the light and flow agrees with them in their new locations. I still need a few corals for the right hand end but I'll see what pops up at the LFSs.
I moved the Purple Rim Trumpet to a lower light area at the end as I think it is a deeper water variant than the Kryptonite. I also moved my original acan to be hear the new Rainbow Acan. As you can see the Pigface polished off his Nori before bed last night.
Kind of hard to see but the Tropicana Anacropora (the plug to the left of the Peach Hammer) will probably go on top of the rock behind him. The Tubbs will probably go on the flat rock where the acan used to be and the Purple Stylo will probably go on the low portion of the left island near center tank. I will probably regret it as it is an absolute weed in the tank but I really like the rich purple polyps swaying and the mint green tips. I'm putting both the Tubbs and the Stylo low in the tank so they have room to grow. Hope I don't regret it.
The orange monti cap is finally starting to plate out again so I'm going to wait to site anything in that area until I see what it is going to do.
This is all subject to change based on how they react over the next week or so to their new homes.
Love your pigface! Nice yellow pig wrasse too!
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