125G SPS thriving to RTN/STN

TCK Corals

What would you do


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Asthix

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Hello,



Controversial topic but I'm struggling with my SPS dominated tank.

Background:



Running for 3 years

125G with sump : 5"*2"*2"

Flow: 2 XF350 + 2 MP40 + 2 Jebao 4000gpd ( about 50-80% for all)

Water change : 10-15% weekly( upped to 30%, 4 times during the same week when multiple RTN have been observed; every parameter was kept identical)

Balling: 3 Part sodium hydroxide

Lighting: 5 Hydra 26HD +2 ATI Blue plus (roughly 700 - 400 - 250 top to bottom) since the start

Parameters: Kh8, CA 400, MG1350, NO3 5, PO4 0.08 / ICP done usually monthly/2month, nothing has mostly changed in the parameters since the start of the tank. Another ICP send yesterday (will update results)

-Running constantly UV and GAC(change every 2 weeks)
Added 2 bags of cuprisorb for 2 weeks already
-Every pump and magnet checked
-Skimmer outside intake through GAC

Recent change in the last 2 month:

-4 pound of live rock that's been in another tank for 4 month(now taken off)

-Reefmat 1200( taken off for 1 week)

-Salt from Fauna Marin to Red Sea blue bucket

-Acropower dosing daily 6ml instead of +/-20ml per week manually

-No coral/fish added



Description of the issue:

-Acropora are browning/getting lighter

-RTN/STN from base or tips

-Mostly start recessing on the encrusting then progress quickly (week or so)

-Serms to be affecting Tenuis first(1month), now going to donei and randomly

-Larger colony blasted with PAR are growing as usual, seems to be lighter than it was

-Polyp are extended as usual, affected or not by the progressing bleached area

-Parameters are and we're always kept the same, despite installing the reefmat. I did feed heavily to keep the nutrient the same.

-Dip show no flatworms at all

-Check during the night for any black bug



In the end, I've turned around the issue and i can't understand what is happening.

I've read about bacterial issue, for which I've ordered chemiclean (waiting), i also have ciproflaxin but I always take extra precautions about using any chemical in the tank.

The tank was always thriving, coral growing like crazy and colored up, i keep the method simple, balling, weekly water change, and stability.



I see most probably people will tick on the reefmat, i can agree but I can see most coral dying when showing for some, no sign of stress at all.



Time for the pictures, sorry for the really bad last quality, i don't feel brave enough to take the DSLR and face the reality.

2022_09_08-150-1.jpg
2022_09_08-099.jpg

2022_09_08-018.jpg

2022_09_08-062.jpg


20221118_145026.jpg

20221118_145006.jpg

20221109_183042.jpg



Many thanks for anyone trying to understand and progress on that!
 

Dburr1014

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Hello,



Controversial topic but I'm struggling with my SPS dominated tank.

Background:



Running for 3 years

125G with sump : 5"*2"*2"

Flow: 2 XF350 + 2 MP40 + 2 Jebao 4000gpd ( about 50-80% for all)

Water change : 10-15% weekly( upped to 30%, 4 times during the same week when multiple RTN have been observed; every parameter was kept identical)

Balling: 3 Part sodium hydroxide

Lighting: 5 Hydra 26HD +2 ATI Blue plus (roughly 700 - 400 - 250 top to bottom) since the start

Parameters: Kh8, CA 400, MG1350, NO3 5, PO4 0.08 / ICP done usually monthly/2month, nothing has mostly changed in the parameters since the start of the tank. Another ICP send yesterday (will update results)

-Running constantly UV and GAC(change every 2 weeks)
Added 2 bags of cuprisorb for 2 weeks already
-Every pump and magnet checked
-Skimmer outside intake through GAC

Recent change in the last 2 month:

-4 pound of live rock that's been in another tank for 4 month(now taken off)

-Reefmat 1200( taken off for 1 week)

-Salt from Fauna Marin to Red Sea blue bucket

-Acropower dosing daily 6ml instead of +/-20ml per week manually

-No coral/fish added



Description of the issue:

-Acropora are browning/getting lighter

-RTN/STN from base or tips

-Mostly start recessing on the encrusting then progress quickly (week or so)

-Serms to be affecting Tenuis first(1month), now going to donei and randomly

-Larger colony blasted with PAR are growing as usual, seems to be lighter than it was

-Polyp are extended as usual, affected or not by the progressing bleached area

-Parameters are and we're always kept the same, despite installing the reefmat. I did feed heavily to keep the nutrient the same.

-Dip show no flatworms at all

-Check during the night for any black bug



In the end, I've turned around the issue and i can't understand what is happening.

I've read about bacterial issue, for which I've ordered chemiclean (waiting), i also have ciproflaxin but I always take extra precautions about using any chemical in the tank.

The tank was always thriving, coral growing like crazy and colored up, i keep the method simple, balling, weekly water change, and stability.



I see most probably people will tick on the reefmat, i can agree but I can see most coral dying when showing for some, no sign of stress at all.



Time for the pictures, sorry for the really bad last quality, i don't feel brave enough to take the DSLR and face the reality.

2022_09_08-150-1.jpg
2022_09_08-099.jpg

2022_09_08-018.jpg

2022_09_08-062.jpg


20221118_145026.jpg

20221118_145006.jpg

20221109_183042.jpg



Many thanks for anyone trying to understand and progress on that!
Couldn't vote.
I would have picked remove carbon and stop water changes for a few weeks.
 

ninjamyst

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I think you already said it yourself. Reefmat removed too much floating particles from the water column and starved out the acros. You are not seeing it on all acros because some can handle the change and some can't. They are individuals still and doesn't always have to all grow together or die together.
 

TX_Punisher

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When did you add the cuprisorb and change salts? After you noticed the stn?

Its good that you sent off an icp. Let us see it when it gets processed.

I usually try not to overreact when I see something small, or large, change. Making too many changes can exacerbate the problem.

let us know what you find.
 
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Asthix

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Couldn't vote.
I would have picked remove carbon and stop water changes for a few weeks.
Do you mind developing on why carbon? I think most it can do is nothing (poll changed to allow multiple choice)

I think you already said it yourself. Reefmat removed too much floating particles from the water column and starved out the acros. You are not seeing it on all acros because some can handle the change and some can't. They are individuals still and doesn't always have to all grow together or die together.
From visual perspective, the water is still as "dirty" as it was, thanks to the 8" Blue hippo.
What if I add that i feed 6-8 cube of mysis per day and ciclops, + a teaspoon of rods 3 times a week?
When did you add the cuprisorb and change salts? After you noticed the stn?

Its good that you sent off an icp. Let us see it when it gets processed.

I usually try not to overreact when I see something small, or large, change. Making too many changes can exacerbate the problem.

let us know what you find.
All change written were exactly at the same time...
Exact cuprisorb(2 weeks ago ) with no chance.
I've simply changed of salt because there were a deal here and i was using it before the fauna Marin.
Screenshot_20221121_160250_Acrobat for Samsung.jpg

Iodine and manganese are crazy high, sample was taken right after a water change and i was told,from that
 

ninjamyst

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From visual perspective, the water is still as "dirty" as it was, thanks to the 8" Blue hippo.
What if I add that i feed 6-8 cube of mysis per day and ciclops, + a teaspoon of rods 3 times a week?
I am only speculating here, but IMO there's still a difference with roller mat running 24/7 now even if you are dumping tons of food into the tank. The difference is simply that the acros were used to feeding continuously 24/7 and now restricted to burst of nutrients during feeding. I am not saying roller mat is bad...it's just a change that maybe the acros couldn't adjust to right away? Again, just speculating.

For the corals that are not dying, are they in higher light and higher flow? Is there any common characteristics between the ones that are dying vs doing well?
 

Dburr1014

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Do you mind developing on why carbon? I think most it can do is nothing (poll changed to allow multiple choice)


From visual perspective, the water is still as "dirty" as it was, thanks to the 8" Blue hippo.
What if I add that i feed 6-8 cube of mysis per day and ciclops, + a teaspoon of rods 3 times a week?

All change written were exactly at the same time...
Exact cuprisorb(2 weeks ago ) with no chance.
I've simply changed of salt because there were a deal here and i was using it before the fauna Marin.
Screenshot_20221121_160250_Acrobat for Samsung.jpg

Iodine and manganese are crazy high, sample was taken right after a water change and i was told,from that
Between water changes and running carbon 24/7, just let the system balance out. Why are you running carbon 24/7? Do you think something is polluting the tank?
 

ninjamyst

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Between water changes and running carbon 24/7, just let the system balance out. Why are you running carbon 24/7? Do you think something is polluting the tank?
I also stopped running carbon...waste of money. They exhaust right away and pull too much out.
 

TX_Punisher

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Not at all!
But if something corroded is happening, should also something else be measurable?

I dose iron daily with no fuge or macro growing. All of my icp come back undetectable for iron. Per the Reefers Moonshiners Handbook, iron should always be undetectable On your icp.

Now, you just switched salts so it’s hard to say if it was that, or something else.

May be something to look at.
 

sculpin01

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Two possibilities: 1) Arcobacter, although unlikely in an established healthy tank. Treatment would be Ciprofloxacin.

or

2) Brown strings of doom. See if you can get some of the brown stringy stuff where the corals are dying and look at it under a microscope. My bet is that you are going to see these guys spinning like tops:

Ostreopsis-cells-extruding-exopolymeric-substances-from-the-ventral-pore.png


These are Ostreopsis cf. ovata. The reason I suggest them as a diagnosis:

1) Brown strings on dying coral, a common Ostreopsis presentation. If you get a really aggressive strain, the skeleton will turn temporarily green after the flesh peels off.
2) Rapid death of otherwise healthy corals. Ostreopsis secrete a variety of toxins, one of which is palytoxin. A literal red tide in your aquarium.
3) Increased amino acid dosing. Ostreopsis feed on amino acids, multiplying much faster/becoming more virulent the more they are fed.

The reason I know this is I had a near tank wipe from dosing Acropower and Brightwell aminos when I accidentally introduced a frag carrying Ostreopsis (see below).
IMG_4327.jpeg


IMG_4304.jpeg


Treatment was to stop all amino acid dosing (I also did a near total water change which helped remove the aminos), UV for 2-3 weeks, and massive amounts of activated carbon (preferably run in a reactor or filter). Stopping the aminos removes their direct food supply, the UV kills them at night when they are free swimming, and the carbon absorbs their toxins.

If you don't believe me, check with these guys who are experts on the subject:

 
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Asthix

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Two possibilities: 1) Arcobacter, although unlikely in an established healthy tank. Treatment would be Ciprofloxacin.

or

2) Brown strings of doom. See if you can get some of the brown stringy stuff where the corals are dying and look at it under a microscope. My bet is that you are going to see these guys spinning like tops:

Ostreopsis-cells-extruding-exopolymeric-substances-from-the-ventral-pore.png


These are Ostreopsis cf. ovata. The reason I suggest them as a diagnosis:

1) Brown strings on dying coral, a common Ostreopsis presentation. If you get a really aggressive strain, the skeleton will turn temporarily green after the flesh peels off.
2) Rapid death of otherwise healthy corals. Ostreopsis secrete a variety of toxins, one of which is palytoxin. A literal red tide in your aquarium.
3) Increased amino acid dosing. Ostreopsis feed on amino acids, multiplying much faster/becoming more virulent the more they are fed.

The reason I know this is I had a near tank wipe from dosing Acropower and Brightwell aminos when I accidentally introduced a frag carrying Ostreopsis (see below).
IMG_4327.jpeg


IMG_4304.jpeg


Treatment was to stop all amino acid dosing (I also did a near total water change which helped remove the aminos), UV for 2-3 weeks, and massive amounts of activated carbon (preferably run in a reactor or filter). Stopping the aminos removes their direct food supply, the UV kills them at night when they are free swimming, and the carbon absorbs their toxins.

If you don't believe me, check with these guys who are experts on the subject:

OH MY GOD, THIS, is exactly what I have and what I did as listed (dosing 6ml/day on a dosing pump instead of now and then.
They all have that brown filament and the body is green.
Screenshot_20221121_192545_Gallery.jpg


Issue is that I'm already running a UV filter, tho not completely closed loop as I'm feeding from the return pump back to the return pump section.

I'll post over there but I don't have access to a microscope, i don't mind buying one, (the loss would have paid for something pretty decent...) Any quality/ x lens i need?
 

sculpin01

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40x and 100x help to see the little spinning monsters, but a cheap kids microscope is all you need.

If you are already running UV (especially at night), stop your amino dosing and start running a ton of carbon. You may end up needing a bigger UV or a new bulb. I ran a cheap Jebao pond UV and it worked perfectly.
 

TX_Punisher

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Two possibilities: 1) Arcobacter, although unlikely in an established healthy tank. Treatment would be Ciprofloxacin.

or

2) Brown strings of doom. See if you can get some of the brown stringy stuff where the corals are dying and look at it under a microscope. My bet is that you are going to see these guys spinning like tops:

Ostreopsis-cells-extruding-exopolymeric-substances-from-the-ventral-pore.png


These are Ostreopsis cf. ovata. The reason I suggest them as a diagnosis:

1) Brown strings on dying coral, a common Ostreopsis presentation. If you get a really aggressive strain, the skeleton will turn temporarily green after the flesh peels off.
2) Rapid death of otherwise healthy corals. Ostreopsis secrete a variety of toxins, one of which is palytoxin. A literal red tide in your aquarium.
3) Increased amino acid dosing. Ostreopsis feed on amino acids, multiplying much faster/becoming more virulent the more they are fed.

The reason I know this is I had a near tank wipe from dosing Acropower and Brightwell aminos when I accidentally introduced a frag carrying Ostreopsis (see below).
IMG_4327.jpeg


IMG_4304.jpeg


Treatment was to stop all amino acid dosing (I also did a near total water change which helped remove the aminos), UV for 2-3 weeks, and massive amounts of activated carbon (preferably run in a reactor or filter). Stopping the aminos removes their direct food supply, the UV kills them at night when they are free swimming, and the carbon absorbs their toxins.

If you don't believe me, check with these guys who are experts on the subject:


I believe I had these recently. A dose of Chemiclean seemed to knock them Out. More so a problem in my back tank.

Good info.
 

spsick

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Two possibilities: 1) Arcobacter, although unlikely in an established healthy tank. Treatment would be Ciprofloxacin.

or

2) Brown strings of doom. See if you can get some of the brown stringy stuff where the corals are dying and look at it under a microscope. My bet is that you are going to see these guys spinning like tops:

Ostreopsis-cells-extruding-exopolymeric-substances-from-the-ventral-pore.png


These are Ostreopsis cf. ovata. The reason I suggest them as a diagnosis:

1) Brown strings on dying coral, a common Ostreopsis presentation. If you get a really aggressive strain, the skeleton will turn temporarily green after the flesh peels off.
2) Rapid death of otherwise healthy corals. Ostreopsis secrete a variety of toxins, one of which is palytoxin. A literal red tide in your aquarium.
3) Increased amino acid dosing. Ostreopsis feed on amino acids, multiplying much faster/becoming more virulent the more they are fed.

The reason I know this is I had a near tank wipe from dosing Acropower and Brightwell aminos when I accidentally introduced a frag carrying Ostreopsis (see below).
IMG_4327.jpeg


IMG_4304.jpeg


Treatment was to stop all amino acid dosing (I also did a near total water change which helped remove the aminos), UV for 2-3 weeks, and massive amounts of activated carbon (preferably run in a reactor or filter). Stopping the aminos removes their direct food supply, the UV kills them at night when they are free swimming, and the carbon absorbs their toxins.

If you don't believe me, check with these guys who are experts on the subject:


Holy crap those are the ones I had when I lost a ton of acros now it makes sense. I had to remove my sand bed and add a UV running slow to finally get past them.
 
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