240 Gal Stocking help

[|Tom the Bomb|]

so what do u think of this stock for a 240G:
1 radiata lionfish
1 antennata lionfish
1 mombassa lionfish
1 Echidna Xanthospilos moray eel
1 coral catshark
1 Rhinopias frondosa *OR* S. macrochir or S. plumieri scorpionfish
1 inimicus didactylus
------------------------------
brittle stars and 1 squamosa clam and 1 crocea clam and featherduster worms
---------------------------------
LPS+softies dominated tank with anemone tank Im also planning to run triton to provide calc and alk for the clams and minimum water changes
-------------------------------------------------
nyos 220 skimmer, 2 media reactors containing media like (purit, purigen hypersorb) or carbon and zeolite, 1 clarisea SK5000 fleece roller, 1 22 gal refugium with H380 lighting and chaeto, also some amount of macroalgae like red ogo and caulerpa and dragons breath inside the DT too
filter socks (i dont need them but the sump already has a filter sock tray so im just gonna use mesh on all of them to filter out large stuff and leave fine filtering to the fleece roller) marine pure balls and blocks i sump because im only having 100-150lbs of live rock in DT
Maybe UV if i need ill see

are all of the fish compatible?
is the tank overstocked or could i fit in some wrasses too or is it just right I also wanted a pufferfish something like the A. manilensis but I heard they might nip at shark?
is the tank size is good for all of the fish?
also could i fit in a halichoeres wrasse too


Also is it true that Nyos torq is a bad reactor

 

[lion king]

I have experience with all these fish except for the coral catshark, as I mentioned before lions and scorps are rather sedentary perchers and slow moving for the most part; would they become food for the shark? The inimicus didactylus does bury itself in the substrate and I do know the catshark spends alot of time laying on the substrate; being a demon stinger. would this cause a problem? My instincts are these are not compatible with a shark.

While I love all the venomous predators you've chosen and have kept all of them except for the S. macrochir. The most fish of this type I've kept in the same tank has been 4, and that was a handful to feed, all of these fish need to target fed in some way. You can't just drop food in the tank and expect everyone to get enough or not eat too much and die of bloat. You need to manage their food, whether it be live or dead food. With all of those species, most will likely never eat enough proper dead food, so you will be feeding live food. Any attempts to feed a dead only diet must include fresh fatty fish like tuna and salmon and fresh shell on shrimp; krill and silversides just won't cut it for long term. Your food bill will run about $150/month just for the venomous predators. All of the venomous fish you have chosen are compatible.

I have posted several threads of observations and care of predatory fish so if you are interested, click on my name and "find all threads". You'll see I've kept dozens of these fish through the years, here's one thread and I've posted upgraded and expanded info in some of the other threads.

Lion King's observations of keeping lions long term

As my research into how long lions are being kept alive in captivity disturbed and disappointed me, I decided to post a few of my observations that has allowed me to keep them for several years or more. Source; know your source, it is not a good idea to get any lion from a source that runs...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[|Tom the Bomb|]

I have experience with all these fish except for the coral catshark, as I mentioned before lions and scorps are rather sedentary perchers and slow moving for the most part; would they become food for the shark? The inimicus didactylus does bury itself in the substrate and I do know the catshark spends alot of time laying on the substrate; being a demon stinger. would this cause a problem? My instincts are these are not compatible with a shark.

While I love all the venomous predators you've chosen and have kept all of them except for the S. macrochir. The most fish of this type I've kept in the same tank has been 4, and that was a handful to feed, all of these fish need to target fed in some way. You can't just drop food in the tank and expect everyone to get enough or not eat too much and die of bloat. You need to manage their food, whether it be live or dead food. With all of those species, most will likely never eat enough proper dead food, so you will be feeding live food. Any attempts to feed a dead only diet must include fresh fatty fish like tuna and salmon and fresh shell on shrimp; krill and silversides just won't cut it for long term. Your food bill will run about $150/month just for the venomous predators. All of the venomous fish you have chosen are compatible.

I have posted several threads of observations and care of predatory fish so if you are interested, click on my name and "find all threads". You'll see I've kept dozens of these fish through the years, here's one thread and I've posted upgraded and expanded info in some of the other threads.

Lion King's observations of keeping lions long term

As my research into how long lions are being kept alive in captivity disturbed and disappointed me, I decided to post a few of my observations that has allowed me to keep them for several years or more. Source; know your source, it is not a good idea to get any lion from a source that runs...

www.reef2reef.com

for the feeding ik that already i have to target feed (mainly the radiata lionfish the eel and the inimicus?) based on what u said i know think that te inimicus would be a bad tank mate for the shark?? (I might just get rid of that entirely but leave the rhinopias or replace it with a macrochir or such
I was planning on adding the radiata as the first fish to the tank as I heard it can be timid and hard to get feeding so I was planning on adding it first allowing it to adjust on its own and i won't add another fish until I've gotten it to CONSISTENTLY eat frozen or dead foods like silversides and regular shrimp or chopped fish and squid meat etc. etc. (i heard krill is bad for lionfish and can cause lockjaw and stuff?)

 

[lion king]

for the feeding ik that already i have to target feed (mainly the radiata lionfish the eel and the inimicus?) based on what u said i know think that te inimicus would be a bad tank mate for the shark?? (I might just get rid of that entirely but leave the rhinopias or replace it with a macrochir or such
I was planning on adding the radiata as the first fish to the tank as I heard it can be timid and hard to get feeding so I was planning on adding it first allowing it to adjust on its own and i won't add another fish until I've gotten it to CONSISTENTLY eat frozen or dead foods like silversides and regular shrimp or chopped fish and squid meat etc. etc. (i heard krill is bad for lionfish and can cause lockjaw and stuff?)

Krill is bad but so are many brands of silversides, unless the species of fish is listed it is likely rainbow smelt. I like to let people know why these things are bad. These foods contain thiaminese, which binds vitamin B1. A vitamin B1 deficiency will cause these fish to stop eating, likely due to lockjaw. Other nutritional deficiencies are caused by the lack of essential fatty acids, calcium and other minerals, and the proper amount of protein and amino acids. It is almost impossible getting proper nutritional balance with dead foods, even when supplemented, and most of them do not live long on a dead only diet. Hikari brand silversides is Pseudohemiculter dispar and does not contain thiaminese. Getting these guys to take chunky bits of fatty fish like tuna and salmon can prove to be very difficult. The shells on the shrimp are necessary for minerals, amino acids, and protein; sharp pieces trimmed off and bite size pieces. These foods should be fresh when possible. If you do extensive research you will rarely if ever find any people keeping these fish even as long as 2 years, The main reason is because of the "train your lion" teaching of feeding a nutritionally void diet of dead foods.

 

[Mbartoloni7]

I’ve kept a coral cat shark with a volitan lionfish before. My recommendation is to keep them both well fed. I spaced out my feedings too much and my coral cat shark start eating the skin off my lionfish. Also, chopped up market squid always worked for me to get finicky predators eating.

 

[|Tom the Bomb|]

I’ve kept a coral cat shark with a volitan lionfish before. My recommendation is to keep them both well fed. I spaced out my feedings too much and my coral cat shark start eating the skin off my lionfish. Also, chopped up market squid always worked for me to get finicky predators eating.

say... how big was ur tank
and also why couldnt u feed both fish together

 

[|Tom the Bomb|]

@lion king
i was just planning to feed hikari silversides, chopped market squid, market table shrimp w/ selcon, live/dead grass shrimp

 

[|Tom the Bomb|]

also do u think radiatas are hard? @lion king in terms of sensitivity and feeding
i was told so...
i might get another antennata ill see

 

[lion king]

also do u think radiatas are hard? @lion king in terms of sensitivity and feeding
i was told so...
i might get another antennata ill see

Yes radiata's are difficult, and so are mombasa's. All of the dwaff and medium bodied lions are difficult, but these 2 even more so, I'm not exactly sure why. I've only had 1 of 5 radiata's live for me, 2 doa. The one I did keep was a bit slower to feed, so in a competitive tank will take attention. But that was only 1 example.

Your diet sounds solid, if you are grilling some fatty fish, cut a chunk off and see if they will also take that.

 

[|Tom the Bomb|]

Yes radiata's are difficult, and so are mombasa's. All of the dwaff and medium bodied lions are difficult, but these 2 even more so, I'm not exactly sure why. I've only had 1 of 5 radiata's live for me, 2 doa. The one I did keep was a bit slower to feed, so in a competitive tank will take attention. But that was only 1 example.

Your diet sounds solid, if you are grilling some fatty fish, cut a chunk off and see if they will also take that.

are radiatas that hard??! u scared the hell outta me when u said 1/5 of ur radiatas survived and ur like a pretty experienced aquarist
anyways ill probably get sphex or zebra or Paucispinula or russeli istead of radiata

 

[|Tom the Bomb|]

any thoughts on bioload and filtration anyone?

 

[Mbartoloni7]

say... how big was ur tank
and also why couldnt u feed both fish together

I had a Reef Ready 180, which was definitely on the small side (lesson learned). Coral catshark was about 16 inches and the lionfish was 9inches. I would feed them together, but I usually spaced out feedings every other day, which was recommended to me. Lionfish tend to just hang out and drift around. My coral catshark would sleep all day, but when the lights were off became very active.

 

[|Tom the Bomb|]

anyone have any thoughts bout rays and sharks or if i could do one??

 

[|Tom the Bomb|]

@lion king dont u think ibluewater's price is a little overpriced and high

 

[lion king]

@lion king dont u think ibluewater's price is a little overpriced and high

They do qt their fish and you will receive a healthy fish. They clear them of parasites and they are eating well. Sadly the mortality rate amoung these guys are very high. I've only had 3 of the last 13 lions and scorps live more than a year. So as price goes, its not that out of bounds. I've bought from them, but I would not pay what they want for a rhino.

My strong opinion: I have 99% concluded that treatment with antibiotics will likely cause a premature death in most of the species from this genus. Check out the last couple posts in my Lions: Necropsy thread. This company does use antibiotcs is their qt regime.

True to form all the fish I treated or got from sources that treated with antibiotics died within a year and half. There were no other observed or considered causes of death. 7 specific cases that I documented and when dissected showed severe liver damage.

 

[|Tom the Bomb|]

They do qt their fish and you will receive a healthy fish. They clear them of parasites and they are eating well. Sadly the mortality rate amoung these guys are very high. I've only had 3 of the last 13 lions and scorps live more than a year. So as price goes, its not that out of bounds. I've bought from them, but I would not pay what they want for a rhino.

My strong opinion: I have 99% concluded that treatment with antibiotics will likely cause a premature death in most of the species from this genus. Check out the last couple posts in my Lions: Necropsy thread. This company does use antibiotcs is their qt regime.

True to form all the fish I treated or got from sources that treated with antibiotics died within a year and half. There were no other observed or considered causes of death. 7 specific cases that I documented and when dissected showed severe liver damage.

I did see one of ur threads supposedly stating vibrant killed ur lionfish?
but like there shortfins lions are in the multi hundreds where on another site a radiata is only 60$

 

[lion king]

On the bottom of the lion:necropsy thread I posted a pic of liver damage from an otherwise healthy lion in a lion/scorp community tank that had been treated with antibiotics 14-15 months earlier.

Every lion you get will likely need to be treated for internal parasites. You have to hope they have not been overly exposed to poisons like copper or cyanide. Many of them will drop dead in a few days. If you get a guarantee it is for credit without shipping cost. You could replace that lion 5 times before you get one to live. As an example I got 5 radiatas before I got one to live, at $60 a pop, that's $300, not including any shipping cost.