3.5 year diatom battle

[Heart of Dixie]

Sorry, long post
Problem - I have been fighting diatoms for 3.5 years in a acrylic 150 gallon mixed reef. Spectrapure RO system. I am on city water.
The tank has been set up since June , 2017. It was started with BRS Pukani dry rock. The rock stayed in saltwater with a powerhead for 5 months with water changes until p04 dropped below .04.
Current parameters: CA 400(Red Sea ) Alk 8.4 (Hanna) salinity 1.026 (refractometer) PH 8.15 ( Salifert) p04 .034 (Hanna) nitrate 5 (Salifert) Mag 1335 (Salifert)
Salt ESV
2 part ESV
Fish food fed: frozen Larry’s Reef Frenzy & PE Mysis, dry Sustainable Aquatics Hatchery Diet and New Life Spectrum small fish formula
Diatoms (verified by a microscope) will not go away. They are on the sand, glass & powerheads. I purchased a Seachem Silicate test kit and checked: incoming tap water, RO out water, RO storage barrel water, the tests showed so low on the scale it is hard to see a change in the color.
I replaced RO filters including adding a Silica Buster followed by a mixed bed, it might have helped for a very short time so I yanked those out and added a cation followed by anion followed by a mixed bed. Diatoms persisted.
I pulled out a cup of substrate out and let it sit in fresh saltwater overnight. Seachem test showed 4. It must be coming from the substrate!
I vacuumed out all 150 pounds and replaced it with Caribsea Special grade aragonite that had been rinsed until the water ran clear. The rinsing took 3 hours. 1 week later the diatoms were back.
I emailed and discussed the issue with Spectrapure. They suggested I purchase a Com-100 TDS meter and check everything. That done, RO output is .06 however my RO storage barrel registered a whopping 438! The barrels came from a manufacturer locally that makes new and refurbishes and cleans used. I purchased used but did not ask what they previously held, my mistake. I assumed they were food grade.It had to be the barrels!!
I then ripped out my entire RO storage and saltwater mixing barrels and replaced them with 2, 32 gallon Brute food grade containers which were scrubbed out with vinegar & water. All stored RO, saltwater and top off water was dumped. Slowly the diatoms have returned. Stored water in the Brute container reads .06.
Unless silicates are leaching out of the rocks I am out of ideas.
Any suggestions?
Thanks.

 

[moz71]

Are you positive irbid diatoms and not a form of Dino’s? The reason why I ask is because I thought I had Dino’s for a year but when the p04 got really low is showed a little more characteristics of Dino’s. It was almost entirely on sand and power heads. I then put in a I’ve and now all gone. Did you put under microscope?

 

[moz71]

Sorry misspelling but I meant I put in a UV

 

[Heart of Dixie]

Are you positive irbid diatoms and not a form of Dino’s? The reason why I ask is because I thought I had Dino’s for a year but when the p04 got really low is showed a little more characteristics of Dino’s. It was almost entirely on sand and power heads. I then put in a I’ve and now all gone. Did you put under microscope?

Yes, I check them regularly with a microscope to make sure they are not Amphidinium or other types of dinoflagellates.

 

[Cory]

Iirc gfo will remove silicate. If those are diatoms they are using silicate. When the silicate is gone, they go too. Got a pic under the scope and tank?

 

[RobertTheNurse]

Sorry, long post
Problem - I have been fighting diatoms for 3.5 years in a acrylic 150 gallon mixed reef. Spectrapure RO system. I am on city water.
The tank has been set up since June , 2017. It was started with BRS Pukani dry rock. The rock stayed in saltwater with a powerhead for 5 months with water changes until p04 dropped below .04.
Current parameters: CA 400(Red Sea ) Alk 8.4 (Hanna) salinity 1.026 (refractometer) PH 8.15 ( Salifert) p04 .034 (Hanna) nitrate 5 (Salifert) Mag 1335 (Salifert)
Salt ESV
2 part ESV
Fish food fed: frozen Larry’s Reef Frenzy & PE Mysis, dry Sustainable Aquatics Hatchery Diet and New Life Spectrum small fish formula
Diatoms (verified by a microscope) will not go away. They are on the sand, glass & powerheads. I purchased a Seachem Silicate test kit and checked: incoming tap water, RO out water, RO storage barrel water, the tests showed so low on the scale it is hard to see a change in the color.
I replaced RO filters including adding a Silica Buster followed by a mixed bed, it might have helped for a very short time so I yanked those out and added a cation followed by anion followed by a mixed bed. Diatoms persisted.
I pulled out a cup of substrate out and let it sit in fresh saltwater overnight. Seachem test showed 4. It must be coming from the substrate!
I vacuumed out all 150 pounds and replaced it with Caribsea Special grade aragonite that had been rinsed until the water ran clear. The rinsing took 3 hours. 1 week later the diatoms were back.
I emailed and discussed the issue with Spectrapure. They suggested I purchase a Com-100 TDS meter and check everything. That done, RO output is .06 however my RO storage barrel registered a whopping 438! The barrels came from a manufacturer locally that makes new and refurbishes and cleans used. I purchased used but did not ask what they previously held, my mistake. I assumed they were food grade.It had to be the barrels!!
I then ripped out my entire RO storage and saltwater mixing barrels and replaced them with 2, 32 gallon Brute food grade containers which were scrubbed out with vinegar & water. All stored RO, saltwater and top off water was dumped. Slowly the diatoms have returned. Stored water in the Brute container reads .06.
Unless silicates are leaching out of the rocks I am out of ideas.
Any suggestions?
Thanks.

Hey, just wanted to say good luck. I have no suggestions just hope you get through this.

 

[CMMorgan]

I was thinking substrate but you got that, There must be a source of silicate somewhere. The test is reading low because the dinos are eating it up. You're going to have to get very scientific here... take everything that can be isolated and run it in a test for a few days. Rock... substrate,,, plain water. Test test and test again to look for anomalies.
Have you run an ICP? That would be my next step.

 

[Heart of Dixie]

Iirc gfo will remove silicate. If those are diatoms they are using silicate. When the silicate is gone, they go too. Got a pic under the scope and tank?

No picture, my microscope is old, but I can post a tank picture. I have some GFO but do not run it for I have to dose nitrate weekly and p04 about every other week to keep the levels from dropping to 0. My 20 gallon refugium grows chaeto very well.

 

[Heart of Dixie]

I was thinking substrate but you got that, There must be a source of silicate somewhere. The test is reading low because the dinos are eating it up. You're going to have to get very scientific here... take everything that can be isolated and run it in a test for a few days. Rock... substrate,,, plain water. Test test and test again to look for anomalies.
Have you run an ICP? That would be my next step.

Good ideas , thanks. I will send water samples out to be tested and pull some of the rock rubble out of my refugium, soak it in RO water then test it everyday with the Com-100

 

[Caseyoidae]

I’d not change anything like sand.it adds silicates too that slowly leach out. Even Carib sea has silicates. No amount of rinsing really seems to help.I have similar parameters and when I add rock or sand I get them too. I’d say skim, skim skim, turkey baste rocks daily, change filter socks every morning and see if that helps. Works for me eventually. Don’t change much water if there’s no reason for it. Just gunna have to ride out this new batch of caribsea sand til those silicates are gone. Glad you found that leaching barrel!! Good luck!

 

[Jonify]

Could you do 2 things--add a photo of what you're seeing, and describe the flow in your tank? (Returns, powerheads, dead spots, etc.).

 

[Heart of Dixie]

Hey, just wanted to say good luck. I have no suggestions just hope you get through this.

Thanks for the support. I have had reef tanks since 2003 and never had an issue quite like this.

 

[Heart of Dixie]

Could you do 2 things--add a photo of what you're seeing, and describe the flow in your tank? (Returns, powerheads, dead spots, etc.).

I will post a picture tomorrow. I have 2 Tunze 6045’s, 1 MP40 & 1MP 10. The return pump is a Blueline 55 rated at 1100 gph, with headloss and flow to the refugium it probably puts out about 500 gph to the DT.

 

[Heart of Dixie]

I’d not change anything like sand.it adds silicates too that slowly leach out. Even Carib sea has silicates. No amount of rinsing really seems to help.I have similar parameters and when I add rock or sand I get them too. I’d say skim, skim skim, turkey baste rocks daily, change filter socks every morning and see if that helps. Works for me eventually. Don’t change much water if there’s no reason for it. Just gunna have to ride out this new batch of caribsea sand til those silicates are gone. Glad you found that leaching barrel on blowing down the rocks with a baster, I have not been very diligent with that

 

[kados]

Have you tried Seachem Phosguard? Cleaned up my diatoms quickly. Had an issue on my FOWLR for months. No where as long as you have..but worth trying maybe.. I know you don't want to drop Phosphates too low but it does knock out silicates.

 

[Heart of Dixie]

I’d not change anything like sand.it adds silicates too that slowly leach out. Even Carib sea has silicates. No amount of rinsing really seems to help.I have similar parameters and when I add rock or sand I get them too. I’d say skim, skim skim, turkey baste rocks daily, change filter socks every morning and see if that helps. Works for me eventually. Don’t change much water if there’s no reason for it. Just gunna have to ride out this new batch of caribsea sand til those silicates are gone. Glad you found that leaching barrel!! Good luck!

Thanks for the suggestions. I have not been blowing off the rock much, maybe once a month. How long did it take before your sand quit leaching?

 

[wonroc]

3 year diatom battle? what the heck u didnt hit the restart button yet? Are you kidding me. All it takes to restart is a bottle off ba c some fake rock and whatever fish u have,

 

[Heart of Dixie]

Have you tried Seachem Phosguard? Cleaned up my diatoms quickly. Had an issue on my FOWLR for months. No where as long as you have..but worth trying maybe.. I know you don't want to drop Phosphates too low but it does knock out silicates.

Thanks for the suggestion. I am pretty sure my local LFS carries Phosguard.

 

[CMMorgan]

I give you praise for your commitment to the tank. I had this issue in my first reef when I was running black sand. It almost ended me. Once I identified the problem and corrected, I knew it was worth the pain. You'll get there. You have experience, support and a desire to identify the issue. It's like solving a murder mystery... you just want to know who is holding the candlestick over the body. Please keep us in the loop... I'd love to know how your ICP comes back and your isolation testing goes.... following.

 

[Heart of Dixie]

Thanks for all the suggestions and support. Why don’t I re-start? I keep a reef tank because of the challenge and I enjoy having a project. Attached are a few pictures. These were taken this afternoon after the lights had been on about 5 hours. Some days it’s heavier than this.