50% Liquid NaOH/Caustic Soda for Dosing

[Miami Reef]

believe that is the weight conversion that @Miami Reef gave me here too. I have not had a chance to go back and worth through the math of the recipe and this solution. I appreciate you guys helping me get through the thought process for this.

Yep. It’s the same thing I said.

 

[shrimpnreefdude]

Yep. It’s the same thing I said.

Sorry... I'm dense. I was making sure I understood. Lol. I appreciate it.

 

[shrimpnreefdude]

Just wanted to chime in with you gents about the last week of dosing. Amazing response!
I am still working on my dosage as I have exceeded the consumption. Do you prefer throughout the day and night? Or only at night?

I have not yet removed the AFR from the doser, but the plan is to switch to 3 part balling. I already made the DIY mag from Randy's recipe. I have a couple bottles of ESV for CA that someone gave me. That gives me some time to source CaCl to do a DIY solution. And to confirm, how much time should I program between dosing Ca and the Alk (NaOH) solutions?

Now to figure out the traces. I was curious if you guys had any opinions on the product I posted previously. Would I dose those separately? Or would my life just be easier to get the TM A & K traces which would mix with my Ca and Alk, correct?

 

[Miami Reef]

Do you prefer throughout the day and night? Or only at night?

I dose mine around the clock. It’s easier to program. Most of the alk consumption happens during the day, so dosing it in that time period keeps it more stable.

It doesn’t make an appreciable difference IME. Do what’s easier for your pump schedule.

And to confirm, how much time should I program between dosing Ca and the Alk (NaOH) solutions?

I offset mine by 30 minutes.

Now to figure out the traces. I was curious if you guys had any opinions on the product I posted previously. Would I dose those separately? Or would my life just be easier to get the TM A & K traces which would mix with my Ca and Alk, correct?

I just use Tropic Marin A & K. I don’t know about the other one.

 

[shrimpnreefdude]

I offset mine by 30 minutes.

Ok. Easy enough.

I just use Tropic Marin A & K. I don’t know about the other one

Got it. Do you also make your own Ca supplement btw? I'm assuming you do. I was looking at my bottle of ESV Ca and it looks like it has a lot of other elements in the ingredients. Is that what the TM A & K are? Strontium and a bunch of other stuff...

 

[Miami Reef]

Ok. Easy enough.

Got it. Do you also make your own Ca supplement btw? I'm assuming you do. I was looking at my bottle of ESV Ca and it looks like it has a lot of other elements in the ingredients. Is that what the TM A & K are? Strontium and a bunch of other stuff...

The similarity between our balling method vs ESV is they both maintain ionic balance. I can expand on this if you want.

All you need to know is that ESV does it in two parts, while Balling does it in three.

That’s what all that extra stuff in the ESV calcium is; they don’t add trace elements to offset consumption. It’s just there for ionic balance.

 

[shrimpnreefdude]

The similarity between our balling method vs ESV is they both maintain ionic balance. I can expand on this if you want.

All you need to know is that ESV does it in two parts, while Balling does it in three.

That’s what all that extra stuff in the ESV calcium is; they don’t add trace elements to offset consumption. It’s just there for ionic balance.

I was looking at them a little bit, and it seems like it would be most economical for me to just stick to the 3 part balling. I'd love to use my buddy's trace elements but I cannot see how or if it will maintain the ionic balance you are referencing with the TM A & K.

 

[Miami Reef]

I really like my 3 part system.

Don’t worry about ionic balance for trace elements. I personally treat them as a separate entity and dose as needed for coral and algae health.

Ps. A lot of trace elements are added from foods, but I’m an advocate for additional supplementation. The product you showed earlier seems good to me.

 

[shrimpnreefdude]

I really like my 3 part system.

Don’t worry about ionic balance for trace elements. I personally treat them as a separate entity and dose as needed for coral and algae health.

Ps. A lot of trace elements are added from foods, but I’m an advocate for additional supplementation. The product you showed earlier seems good to me.

Awesome! Thanks so much. So really, for my 3 part, the only thing I am missing is the CaCl. I could utilize the ESV just so it doesn't go to waste right? Or would it be best to not go that route and just stick to the full DIY three part?

 

[Miami Reef]

I could utilize the ESV just so it doesn't go to waste right?

Yes. No worries with it.

I’d switch to plain calcium chloride when it’s finished, but there’s no issue with finishing your current solution.

The ESV calcium (and alk) are slightly more potent to the balling method. It’s not a problem when using it short term.

 

[shrimpnreefdude]

Yes. No worries with it.

I’d switch to plain calcium chloride when it’s finished, but there’s no issue with finishing your current solution.

Ok sweet!

The ESV calcium (and alk) are slightly more potent to the balling method.

Whoa whoa... more potent that NaOH?! How? Lol

 

[KStatefan]

Whoa whoa... more potent that NaOH?! How? Lol

That is how it is mixed. The ESV alk is around 7600dkh and the diy balling is 5300dkh unless you are using baking soda then it is 2660 dkh. You can mix Sodium Hydroxide much stronger

 

[Miami Reef]

Yes, ESV is a 1.48x more potent than my diy #1 which BRS uses as their soda ash recipe.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Ok sweet!

Whoa whoa... more potent that NaOH?! How? Lol

You could easily match the ESV potency if you wanted to, but most of the time, higher concentration is not better, and that may be especially true with hydroxide dosing where the local pH gets very high when added.

 

[Miami Reef]

How does ESV get their method in 2 parts?

Do they use sodium sulfate and sodium carbonate in the alk part? I mean, where else could they add the sulfate, since it’ll just precipitate with calcium?

And they’d probably just use magnesium chlorine in the calcium part. It’s very similar to your true 2-part, right?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

How does ESV get their method in 2 parts?

Do they use sodium sulfate and sodium carbonate in the alk part? I mean, where else could they add the sulfate, since it’ll just precipitate with calcium?

And they’d probably just use magnesium chlorine in the calcium part. It’s very similar to your true 2-part, right?

It’s more of a chemistry puzzle for them to work out than the simple sodium chloride free salt. Yes, sodium sulfate is a required ingredient, and only mag chloride would be used. There are others that can only be in one part or the other, such as fluoride only in alk part, etc, but I have not tried to sort through the recipe.

Years ago on Compuserve Fishnet, Bob Stark was discussing with folks about how to do it, and I believe that is where the name B-ionic came from for Bob’s ionic.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

One consequence of using mag chloride and sodium sulfate instead of mag sulfate is that the true two parts must boost salinity a small amount more than recipes that use a sodium chloride free salt mix.

 

[shrimpnreefdude]

Thanks for the insights guys. It's been fun working through my ignorance. I'm still in the Neanderthal stage of understanding the chemistry, but it's good to get clarity. I'll get there slowly.