60 Breeder Build and Mandarin breeding plan

[BurtG]

Hopefully this isn't too long of a rant to explain where I'm at on this plan... Soooooo.... im new to this.. kinda sorta...
So about 15 years ago, my father and I got into breeding and selling freshwater fish. Just the basics. Angels, guppies, cories and what not. At one point we had over 30 tanks running (some just seasonally in and old chicken coup lol). We were selling to a few local shops regularly and even hit up a few auctions. But anyways... I joined the Army and needed to shut my tanks down. Then a few years later a disease wiped out all his breeders and he shut down most of his.
So fast forward 15 years... and I'm getting back into it... basically what pulled me back in is my wife asked if I could move a 15 gallon tank with our lone fish, out of her at home office for more space... its a stubborn blue velvet damsel that's well over a decade old. We have him from a tank my buddy had back when we were all roommate's several years ago. I've not really cared about it much other than keeping him alive to keep the girl friend turned wife happy lol. I've never really liked him because he's just too aggressive and basically wrecked every tank he's ever been in... but anyways... so his tank was in rough shape... I decided it would be easier to setup a new tank to move him to. That started a 2 month deep dive into YouTube research of how to set a tank up better... ive watched soooooooo many BRS videos.... because I figured if I was going to setup a new tank I wanted to add some stuff that interested me... like some basic soft corals and LPS. Now... I set up a basic 20 gallon that is doing "ok". It's still in the ugly stage, but it's doing good numbers wise. However, I've been re reminded that blue destroys all which enters his tank... and he had proceeded to throw sand all over the few zoa frags in there every day... and basically reorganize the tank regularly...
So... the obvious solution is I need to setup another tank just for my own use while blue keeps the 20gal for himself as a retirement home.
I have learned from my mistakes of the past... and don't want to just set up a tank and throw random stuff in to watch half of it die from my ignorance. I did that too much with fresh water... I also know I won't be happy with just having a dt... theres something in my family blood where if we have living things, we feel a need to be propagating them lol. (Probably something to do with having a farmer/greenhouse owner for a father) so... ive been researching different things to grow... im planning to make it a mixed tank coral wise and plan to just try and stick to corals that interest me and fit the tank setup for more of a dt focus ( atleast until I learn a lot more about coral growth). But after looking at the fish currently being bred, I think I want to focus on trying to breed mandarins. I like clowns... but it seems like everyone and their mother is breeding them... my lfs has no less than 15 different fancy versions... so im worried if I breed those, I will end up with the same problem that we had with angels back 15 years ago.... a whole ton of babies and no one willing to buy them for what they cost in food. I'm not trying to make money... but I dont want to be sitting, feeding 300 mouths with no where to sell them.
So I've been researching the current marine fish that have been bred in captivity and for a number of reasons. I've settled on wanting to build a mandarin specific tank and try to breed them when they mature. Specifically the red/blue type.
Due to things like limited space, money, wife and planning to move in hopefully 5ish years. I'm limiting myself to a medium/small sized tank. I was going to do a 40 breeder... but then saw the new 60 breeder and loved it, I don't like how tall the 75 is. The 60 is the perfect footprint, basically being the max size I can reasonably fit where I want to put it. I'm planning on using an old 40 breeder I already have as a diy sump. So it will be probably a 80 gallonish system with a big fuge and diy roller mat. I'm going to leave room for a protein Skimmer, but I'm hoping to not need one.

So... after the long explanation... here's my questions lol

1. Am I biting off more than I should be, given my inexperience? I know I need to wait for a mature tank and have a healthy pod colony. I know it will be years before they are breeder size. I plan to start with bred in captivity ones that should take frozen food. But im not counting on it and plan to have pods ahead of time.

2. I've seen posts where others have more than one pair of mandarins in their tanks. It seems the different varieties ignore each other and don't fight. Would it be reasonable to try and have a pair/trio of blues and a pair/trio of the smaller ruby red mandarians in the tank?

3. It seems the "red mandarin" and the "blue/green mandarin" are really the same fish with just different coloring. Would it be possible... or has anyone witnessed a blue breeding with a red? Or do they see each other as different fish?

4. As far as other fish for the tank, I'm not set on much other than wanting a pair of fancy clowns and a yellow tang... I know... the tanks too small... I plan to either upgrade to a larger tank down the road for the tang or trade it back to the lfs when it out grows it. Will there be any issue with the tang towards the mandarins and their hopeful breeding? Any other fish I add, I would want to be utilitarian fish and i would want to be certain they won't cause any problems for the mandarins. I'm open to suggestions. Though I think if I have 2 trios of mandarins, 2 clowns and a tang the tank will probably be getting pretty full?

I really like that there is a big push for captive bred in the hobby and would be happy if I can keep the whole tank only captive bred fish. Though it's not a requirement.

5. Should I just get the 75 gal for more volume? Is there any benefit in that extra height for the mandarins in health or for breeding?

Thoughts, concerns?

Am I crazy and missing something big?

 

[artieg1]

I would go slowly. I note that maintaining a disease-free healthy group of fish is itself not the easiest thing in the world. Read the disease forums to see dozens of heartache stories. I strongly recommend reading up on, thinking through and establishing a QT protocol.

 

[BurtG]

Thanks, yeah i already have a spot picked out for a couple QT tanks. I just need to read up and do the research on the different processes more. I'm not sure about all the different potential pretreatments people mention. But I have no issue doing the long term 76 day qt. I just want to read up more about the different treatments before I put the fish through more stress than really needed.

 

[Chrisv.]

This is a very cool idea. As I'm sure you have already learned, the big transformation that has allowed many marine fish to be aquacultured has been the development of appropriately sized live food. My understanding is that places like biota, who do this at scale, are even breeding things so that fish larvae can feed on invertebrate larvae. The trick to breeding many marine ornamentals seems to be getting the fry on a series of appropriately sized live food. So reliably producing the right live foods for each larval stage and reliably having them in quantities to be ready at relatively short notice is really what's super hard.

I think you will find this thesis very useful: https://researchonline.jcu.edu.au/47308/

 

[BurtG]

This is a very cool idea. As I'm sure you have already learned, the big transformation that has allowed many marine fish to be aquacultured has been the development of appropriately sized live food. My understanding is that places like biota, who do this at scale, are even breeding things so that fish larvae can feed on invertebrate larvae. The trick to breeding many marine ornamentals seems to be getting the fry on a series of appropriately sized live food. So reliably producing the right live foods for each larval stage and reliably having them in quantities to be ready at relatively short notice is really what's super hard.

I think you will find this thesis very useful: https://researchonline.jcu.edu.au/47308/

Thank you so much! This has more useful information in just the abstract than I've been able to find on the matter with a dozen hours of searching for and reading what little breeding info I can find online for these guys. I'm going to have to print the whole thing out and read through it over a few relaxing evenings. It's too much for a phone screen while I'm on break at work lol.

It looks like my biggest hurdle will be developing or finding an easy and efficient diy means of fast copepod production since that seems to be the largest issue for stable growth and survival.

I'm really curious just how automated the process can be made on a diy scale. It seems a lot of people are turned off of breeding fish because of the constant food supply demands early on. I think there might be some improvements that could be made on those issues. I will have to read a lot more and get my hands wet trying it to really see though.

I think im going to try to document what I do or atleast take good notes to share as I go along (on the unlikely chance im successful lol). I was surprised how much trouble I've had finding information specific to breeding and raising these guys online. Given there are multiple mass producers, I thought it would be well documented online in the diy realm.
I'm used to researching something and finding a dozen tutorials on how to do it lol. I'm guessing the producers don't like to share their recipes for success?

 

[Chrisv.]

Thank you so much! This has more useful information in just the abstract than I've been able to find on the matter with a dozen hours of searching for and reading what little breeding info I can find online for these guys. I'm going to have to print the whole thing out and read through it over a few relaxing evenings. It's too much for a phone screen while I'm on break at work lol.

It looks like my biggest hurdle will be developing or finding an easy and efficient diy means of fast copepod production since that seems to be the largest issue for stable growth and survival.

I'm really curious just how automated the process can be made on a diy scale. It seems a lot of people are turned off of breeding fish because of the constant food supply demands early on. I think there might be some improvements that could be made on those issues. I will have to read a lot more and get my hands wet trying it to really see though.

I think im going to try to document what I do or atleast take good notes to share as I go along (on the unlikely chance im successful lol). I was surprised how much trouble I've had finding information specific to breeding and raising these guys online. Given there are multiple mass producers, I thought it would be well documented online in the diy realm.
I'm used to researching something and finding a dozen tutorials on how to do it lol. I'm guessing the producers don't like to share their recipes for success?

It would be amazing if you could do a breeding thread on this to document your progress.

My understanding is that many of the commercial producers actually patent the methods they use, or keep them as trade secrets. I just did a quick patent search on Google patents and there are a ton of filings for that come up when I search the term "mandarin fish". I'm sure there is a lot to be learned from the filings. You should have a look. Since you're doing this from the diy hobby perspective, it isn't violating IP laws (as long as you don't become a commercial breeder).

I think this will require a ton of detailed planning, but is probably doable if you really want to go for it. As for live food culture, I think it's way better to not try to make foods on demand, but rather to constantly produce them at some level and then expand production when needed. You will need both pods and rotifers, and it's essential for you to have the pods and rotifers at the right prey density in the tank water. To estimate prey density you will need a microscope and probably a hemocytometer. Not sure if that's what aquaculture people use, but it's how I would do it.

There is a fish breeding forum on here. I think you should start a thread in that section to organize your thoughts and plans, and to solicit feedback from experienced fish breeders.

 

[BurtG]

It would be amazing if you could do a breeding thread on this to document your progress.

My understanding is that many of the commercial producers actually patent the methods they use, or keep them as trade secrets. I just did a quick patent search on Google patents and there are a ton of filings for that come up when I search the term "mandarin fish". I'm sure there is a lot to be learned from the filings. You should have a look. Since you're doing this from the diy hobby perspective, it isn't violating IP laws (as long as you don't become a commercial breeder).

I think this will require a ton of detailed planning, but is probably doable if you really want to go for it. As for live food culture, I think it's way better to not try to make foods on demand, but rather to constantly produce them at some level and then expand production when needed. You will need both pods and rotifers, and it's essential for you to have the pods and rotifers at the right prey density in the tank water. To estimate prey density you will need a microscope and probably a hemocytometer. Not sure if that's what aquaculture people use, but it's how I would do it.

There is a fish breeding forum on here. I think you should start a thread in that section to organize your thoughts and plans, and to solicit feedback from experienced fish breeders.

I will be certain to make a thread once I get further along and get the tanks setup. It's going to be a long process for sure lol.

I never thought to look at patents for something like this... ive done that for other things that I was designing... but it never crossed my mind for fish breeding.

Yeah I was expecting the need to be growing a steady supply of pods and rotifers. I just need to figure out what's the easiest way to do that long term.

I might actually have an old microscope kicking around already... my wife had one years ago... need to see if she still has it.

 

[Chrisv.]

Hey Burt! How's this plan coming along?

 

[BurtG]

Oh its still moving forward! I've been preparing to setup the main tank and have been reorganizing my basement to make a corner into the "fish area". I'm going to be building a couple basic stands/racks to maximize how many tanks I can cram into the area. I've got a good rodi system, a couple Brute cans and am planning a water mixing system to keep maintenance simple and easy. Im trying to setup everything smartly from the start so once it's rolling it will be as easy as possible, so I can just focus on the actual fish.

It's all just moving slow since I'm buying a little bit each paycheck. I just picked up the lumber this weekend for the stand and tank rack. I've started buying equipment. But still need to buy the main tank. I guess I'm still torn on if I should go with the 60 breeder or just go with the standard 75 gallon for the extra volume. I like the look of the shorter 60 breeder, but I'm worried it being short will have some negative effect on trying to get them to breed. I'm worried that it being a short tank may dissuade them from breeding since they tend to swim out into the open towards the top/open water. Though I guess the real challenge with mandarins is feeding the babies and not the breeding part...

I was just planning to have the tank loaded with live rock and the sump setup with a diy roller mat, protein Skimmer (if really needed) and the largest space I can squeeze in for the fuge to maximize pods grown in the main tank for the breeders. But then I saw paulb mention in a past post that he runs a reverse gravel filter in his tank and it produces a ton of pods because of that... so now I'm curious if I should go that route... which also makes me wonder what the "perfect mandarin" tank setup would actually be...

I've been considering the Copepods supply aspect and I think I'm going to try a mix of running pods and algae different ways to try and find a low maintenance scalable solution. I might try a season based plan where I plan the broods for the spring and grow an extra large food supply outside to produce enough to get them past the larval stage over the summer. Then try and get them onto prepared foods before fall sets in and I become limited to producing pods and algae inside. Either way I will have multiple cultures and batches running inside to keep a steady supply.

 

[Tamberav]

Hopefully this isn't too long of a rant to explain where I'm at on this plan... Soooooo.... im new to this.. kinda sorta...
So about 15 years ago, my father and I got into breeding and selling freshwater fish. Just the basics. Angels, guppies, cories and what not. At one point we had over 30 tanks running (some just seasonally in and old chicken coup lol). We were selling to a few local shops regularly and even hit up a few auctions. But anyways... I joined the Army and needed to shut my tanks down. Then a few years later a disease wiped out all his breeders and he shut down most of his.
So fast forward 15 years... and I'm getting back into it... basically what pulled me back in is my wife asked if I could move a 15 gallon tank with our lone fish, out of her at home office for more space... its a stubborn blue velvet damsel that's well over a decade old. We have him from a tank my buddy had back when we were all roommate's several years ago. I've not really cared about it much other than keeping him alive to keep the girl friend turned wife happy lol. I've never really liked him because he's just too aggressive and basically wrecked every tank he's ever been in... but anyways... so his tank was in rough shape... I decided it would be easier to setup a new tank to move him to. That started a 2 month deep dive into YouTube research of how to set a tank up better... ive watched soooooooo many BRS videos.... because I figured if I was going to setup a new tank I wanted to add some stuff that interested me... like some basic soft corals and LPS. Now... I set up a basic 20 gallon that is doing "ok". It's still in the ugly stage, but it's doing good numbers wise. However, I've been re reminded that blue destroys all which enters his tank... and he had proceeded to throw sand all over the few zoa frags in there every day... and basically reorganize the tank regularly...
So... the obvious solution is I need to setup another tank just for my own use while blue keeps the 20gal for himself as a retirement home.
I have learned from my mistakes of the past... and don't want to just set up a tank and throw random stuff in to watch half of it die from my ignorance. I did that too much with fresh water... I also know I won't be happy with just having a dt... theres something in my family blood where if we have living things, we feel a need to be propagating them lol. (Probably something to do with having a farmer/greenhouse owner for a father) so... ive been researching different things to grow... im planning to make it a mixed tank coral wise and plan to just try and stick to corals that interest me and fit the tank setup for more of a dt focus ( atleast until I learn a lot more about coral growth). But after looking at the fish currently being bred, I think I want to focus on trying to breed mandarins. I like clowns... but it seems like everyone and their mother is breeding them... my lfs has no less than 15 different fancy versions... so im worried if I breed those, I will end up with the same problem that we had with angels back 15 years ago.... a whole ton of babies and no one willing to buy them for what they cost in food. I'm not trying to make money... but I dont want to be sitting, feeding 300 mouths with no where to sell them.
So I've been researching the current marine fish that have been bred in captivity and for a number of reasons. I've settled on wanting to build a mandarin specific tank and try to breed them when they mature. Specifically the red/blue type.
Due to things like limited space, money, wife and planning to move in hopefully 5ish years. I'm limiting myself to a medium/small sized tank. I was going to do a 40 breeder... but then saw the new 60 breeder and loved it, I don't like how tall the 75 is. The 60 is the perfect footprint, basically being the max size I can reasonably fit where I want to put it. I'm planning on using an old 40 breeder I already have as a diy sump. So it will be probably a 80 gallonish system with a big fuge and diy roller mat. I'm going to leave room for a protein Skimmer, but I'm hoping to not need one.

So... after the long explanation... here's my questions lol

1. Am I biting off more than I should be, given my inexperience? I know I need to wait for a mature tank and have a healthy pod colony. I know it will be years before they are breeder size. I plan to start with bred in captivity ones that should take frozen food. But im not counting on it and plan to have pods ahead of time.

2. I've seen posts where others have more than one pair of mandarins in their tanks. It seems the different varieties ignore each other and don't fight. Would it be reasonable to try and have a pair/trio of blues and a pair/trio of the smaller ruby red mandarians in the tank?

3. It seems the "red mandarin" and the "blue/green mandarin" are really the same fish with just different coloring. Would it be possible... or has anyone witnessed a blue breeding with a red? Or do they see each other as different fish?

4. As far as other fish for the tank, I'm not set on much other than wanting a pair of fancy clowns and a yellow tang... I know... the tanks too small... I plan to either upgrade to a larger tank down the road for the tang or trade it back to the lfs when it out grows it. Will there be any issue with the tang towards the mandarins and their hopeful breeding? Any other fish I add, I would want to be utilitarian fish and i would want to be certain they won't cause any problems for the mandarins. I'm open to suggestions. Though I think if I have 2 trios of mandarins, 2 clowns and a tang the tank will probably be getting pretty full?

I really like that there is a big push for captive bred in the hobby and would be happy if I can keep the whole tank only captive bred fish. Though it's not a requirement.

5. Should I just get the 75 gal for more volume? Is there any benefit in that extra height for the mandarins in health or for breeding?

Thoughts, concerns?

Am I crazy and missing something big?

1. A healthy pod population is very easy in a macro algae dominated tank, even more with a fuge as well. Be sure to feed the pods too. More food = more pods.

2. This is possible but it depends on individual fish, hiding spots, and food. Yes spotteds will sometimes fight blues and vise versa. Females will fight other females even. I am not sure a trio is more appropriate since the females can also fight. The good news is scooters and mandarins do not seem to fight at all.

3. They can pair and see each other as the same fish.

4. Tang isn’t a problem other then it may eat desirable algae that makes keeping mandarins much easier. Pods love algae.

As far as captive bred. It’s worth knowing that mandarins will reject and fight each other if the other is not viewed as a suitable mate.

A male may attack a female that is too tiny as they are no use for having enough eggs. Likewise a female will attack a male that is too small since a small male is also not a suitable mate. Ideally you want a large size difference. A big male and a fairly small but not tiny/juvi female.

This is difficult to pull off with captive specimens around the same age. It may be possible as long as they have enough hiding space to grow and hopefully the male will outgrow the female in time.

I kept 6 dragonetts in a heavily macro dominated tank that spawned for 5 years so this was my observations in that time. You can also watch videos of wild mandarins in the ocean and see them spawning and you will immediately notice the size difference and the pure aggression of these fish when they decide to reject another or fight off the same sex.

In the coral magazine about mandarins. Matt Peterson has spawning pair in his biocube with macros and it’s fairly easy to replicate.

I never had to culture pods. My whole tank cultured enough for all 6.

 

[Chrisv.]

Oh its still moving forward! I've been preparing to setup the main tank and have been reorganizing my basement to make a corner into the "fish area". I'm going to be building a couple basic stands/racks to maximize how many tanks I can cram into the area. I've got a good rodi system, a couple Brute cans and am planning a water mixing system to keep maintenance simple and easy. Im trying to setup everything smartly from the start so once it's rolling it will be as easy as possible, so I can just focus on the actual fish.

It's all just moving slow since I'm buying a little bit each paycheck. I just picked up the lumber this weekend for the stand and tank rack. I've started buying equipment. But still need to buy the main tank. I guess I'm still torn on if I should go with the 60 breeder or just go with the standard 75 gallon for the extra volume. I like the look of the shorter 60 breeder, but I'm worried it being short will have some negative effect on trying to get them to breed. I'm worried that it being a short tank may dissuade them from breeding since they tend to swim out into the open towards the top/open water. Though I guess the real challenge with mandarins is feeding the babies and not the breeding part...

I was just planning to have the tank loaded with live rock and the sump setup with a diy roller mat, protein Skimmer (if really needed) and the largest space I can squeeze in for the fuge to maximize pods grown in the main tank for the breeders. But then I saw paulb mention in a past post that he runs a reverse gravel filter in his tank and it produces a ton of pods because of that... so now I'm curious if I should go that route... which also makes me wonder what the "perfect mandarin" tank setup would actually be...

I've been considering the Copepods supply aspect and I think I'm going to try a mix of running pods and algae different ways to try and find a low maintenance scalable solution. I might try a season based plan where I plan the broods for the spring and grow an extra large food supply outside to produce enough to get them past the larval stage over the summer. Then try and get them onto prepared foods before fall sets in and I become limited to producing pods and algae inside. Either way I will have multiple cultures and batches running inside to keep a steady supply.

Fantastic to hear. Do you live in an area with a local reef club? If so, I recommend that you keep phyto and pod cultures going constantly and sell the pods and phyto you don't need. One of the guys in my local club has been doing this and there has been insane demand. I was at his house tonight to buy phyto. It might be a good way to offset the expense of the setups. Also, it would give you practice in reliably producing the live food which will be essential for this project to work. You could start right away while you're waiting for the tank to mature and to acquire brood stock
Anyway, just an idea.

Wanted to share this video, which I think will be of interest:

 

[Tamberav]

Fantastic to hear. Do you live in an area with a local reef club? If so, I recommend that you keep phyto and pod cultures going constantly and sell the pods and phyto you don't need. One of the guys in my local club has been doing this and there has been insane demand. I was at his house tonight to buy phyto. It might be a good way to offset the expense of the setups. Also, it would give you practice in reliably producing the live food which will be essential for this project to work. You could start right away while you're waiting for the tank to mature and to acquire brood stock
Anyway, just an idea.

Wanted to share this video, which I think will be of interest:

Thank you. This video is perfect and shows mandarins in the wild and the size different you are looking for when selecting a pair.

 

[Chrisv.]

Thank you. This video is perfect and shows mandarins in the wild and the size different you are looking for when selecting a pair.

I thought it was pretty amazing!

 

[Jay'sReefBugs]

I would make sure your whole breeding tank is designed with copepods in mind . Also you will be blowing through phytoplankton at a very high rate . As long as you can keep the copepods fed they will reproduce ( copepods) on average every 14 days .

 

[BurtG]

1. A healthy pod population is very easy in a macro algae dominated tank, even more with a fuge as well. Be sure to feed the pods too. More food = more pods.

2. This is possible but it depends on individual fish, hiding spots, and food. Yes spotteds will sometimes fight blues and vise versa. Females will fight other females even. I am not sure a trio is more appropriate since the females can also fight. The good news is scooters and mandarins do not seem to fight at all.

3. They can pair and see each other as the same fish.

4. Tang isn’t a problem other then it may eat desirable algae that makes keeping mandarins much easier. Pods love algae.

As far as captive bred. It’s worth knowing that mandarins will reject and fight each other if the other is not viewed as a suitable mate.

A male may attack a female that is too tiny as they are no use for having enough eggs. Likewise a female will attack a male that is too small since a small male is also not a suitable mate. Ideally you want a large size difference. A big male and a fairly small but not tiny/juvi female.

This is difficult to pull off with captive specimens around the same age. It may be possible as long as they have enough hiding space to grow and hopefully the male will outgrow the female in time.

I kept 6 dragonetts in a heavily macro dominated tank that spawned for 5 years so this was my observations in that time. You can also watch videos of wild mandarins in the ocean and see them spawning and you will immediately notice the size difference and the pure aggression of these fish when they decide to reject another or fight off the same sex.

In the coral magazine about mandarins. Matt Peterson has spawning pair in his biocube with macros and it’s fairly easy to replicate.

I never had to culture pods. My whole tank cultured enough for all 6.

Thats amazing, thanks for the answers! I wasn't even thinking about making it a macro tank. But that makes complete sense. I did want to do a mixed reef so I could play around with easier to grown corals. Maybe I will do a hybrid... half the tank macros and half corals.

I knew there was a size difference between the M/F. But I didn't realize just how big of a difference there should be. I was planning to by the pair at the same time. But maybe I will buy a male first and grow him out a little before getting the female. Then try to fatten the female up with eggs in the qt tank before introducing her. I will stick to a pair instead of pushing my luck on trios.

I managed to hunt down that issue of the magazine and order it.

 

[BurtG]

Fantastic to hear. Do you live in an area with a local reef club? If so, I recommend that you keep phyto and pod cultures going constantly and sell the pods and phyto you don't need. One of the guys in my local club has been doing this and there has been insane demand. I was at his house tonight to buy phyto. It might be a good way to offset the expense of the setups. Also, it would give you practice in reliably producing the live food which will be essential for this project to work. You could start right away while you're waiting for the tank to mature and to acquire brood stock
Anyway, just an idea.

Wanted to share this video, which I think will be of interest:

Thats a great idea, thanks!

Thanks for the video it's fantastic. I can't believe the typical size difference between m/f. It looks like they were sill breeding in amongst rock work and not reallt out in the "open" water like I was thinking.

 

[Tamberav]

Thats amazing, thanks for the answers! I wasn't even thinking about making it a macro tank. But that makes complete sense. I did want to do a mixed reef so I could play around with easier to grown corals. Maybe I will do a hybrid... half the tank macros and half corals.

I knew there was a size difference between the M/F. But I didn't realize just how big of a difference there should be. I was planning to by the pair at the same time. But maybe I will buy a male first and grow him out a little before getting the female. Then try to fatten the female up with eggs in the qt tank before introducing her. I will stick to a pair instead of pushing my luck on trios.

I managed to hunt down that issue of the magazine and order it.

Thats amazing, thanks for the answers! I wasn't even thinking about making it a macro tank. But that makes complete sense. I did want to do a mixed reef so I could play around with easier to grown corals. Maybe I will do a hybrid... half the tank macros and half corals.

I knew there was a size difference between the M/F. But I didn't realize just how big of a difference there should be. I was planning to by the pair at the same time. But maybe I will buy a male first and grow him out a little before getting the female. Then try to fatten the female up with eggs in the qt tank before introducing her. I will stick to a pair instead of pushing my luck on trios.

I managed to hunt down that issue of the magazine and order it.

Yes mixing corals in is totally fine too

They are easy fish to keep and spawn if you set up a tank that is basically a species tank for them. You can ofc keep them other ways too but I find this the least amount of work which for me brings more enjoyment.

 

[BurtG]

I would make sure your whole breeding tank is designed with copepods in mind . Also you will be blowing through phytoplankton at a very high rate . As long as you can keep the copepods fed they will reproduce ( copepods) on average every 14 days .

Absolutely. My bigger concern is producing enough pods for raising the fry outside of the breeder tank. I was thinking that I can try to maximize the growth rate of a pod growing system with a ton of food and temp/flow control. I was reading about a different pod from the NW that reproduced significantly faster when kept at colder Temps. So now I'm wondering what the best temperature is to produce copepods at....

 

[BurtG]

Yes mixing corals in is totally fine too

They are easy fish to keep and spawn if you set up a tank that is basically a species tank for them. You can ofc keep them other ways too but I find this the least amount of work which for me brings more enjoyment.

Thats music to my ears. I want to have it as low maintenance as possible, so my time can be spent dealing with the fry.

 

[BurtG]

Is there any reason to favor one size aggregate sand over another for mandarins? I was originally going to go with the regular 1.0-2.0mm stuff. But after dealing with an angry damsel that likes to throw sand everywhere in a differner tank. I'm thinking of going with the larger crushed coral type that's like 2.0-6.0mm range. So far I've read that the larger stuff is better for inverts but just traps more detritus and will require heavier vacuuming. I don't really mind doing vacuuming, but was wondering if there were any other negatives or positives with it specifically for a mandarin tank. Maybe the larger void sizes between the aggregate will supply more area for pods to grow in?