861 TDS from the Tap... any ideas?

[OMGitsManBearPig]

Well, the title says it all... I have 861 TDS from my municipal water tap supply! (plus or minus 5ppm... it’s a cheap meter - but I know it’s accurate enough because I checked it against a much nicer one. It was off by about 5 TDS on average.)

I recently purchased a BRS 5 stage RODI and hooked up a TDS inline at the inlet and another at the outlet of the carbon blocks. I bypassed the memberane and am just dumping the water being produced. Results? After 150 gallons (I’m measuring it) of water produced through the 3 stages ((1) 1-micron fiber and (2) 1 micron universal carbon blocks) I’m seeing a drop in TDS of around 10 to get me to 855.

Unfortunately, I didnt read anything before embarking on this expensive journey - nor did I suspect my water was this bad - and I just hooked everything up and started flowing water through the system(I at least skipped the DI). It wasn’t until about 60 gallons that I suspected I was doing it wrong. For the record, the 75GPD memberanes (2 of them) did admirably under 42PSI of pressure - given the circumstances. They produced a 92% rejection rate to get me to 64 TDS.

I haven’t bothered with the rejected water. It’s probably has the viscosity of playdough.

Since I torpedoed my membranes - I figured screw it and made 30 more gallons of water with the DI plugged in - for science! And because I knew I would be making an order for more parts anyway - might as well learn how to handle DI resin!!! I was able to make 25 gallons or so of 0.0 TDS water before fully exhausting the DI resin. By the end of the 30 gallons I was producing 8 TDS water.

I used that up to do a nice water change in my tank. So - I’m back to just having the fiber and carbon filters running water through as fast as I can. The tap is 865 and the post side is 859.

Since I’m probably going to need to buy some new membranes and definitely some new resin... mine not even yellow anymore - its a dull brown - who wants to help me go shopping? Clearly (no pun intended) this isn’t going to be cheap. I’d prefer not to feed the membranes with 860... no... now its 884 TDS water. So, some additional prefiltering is needed.

My municipal water report makes mention of chloramines... so that’s fun. I’ll be adding some kind of prefilter to help with that. I’m thinking I need to go harder than 1 micron on the blocks. So, I guess I’ll be adding to that. In comparison, the fiber and carbon blocks are pretty cheap - I think I’ll just accept the fact that I’ll be using these up pretty regularly.

As this continues to add up... there could be a strong case made that it might actually be cheaper to purchase distilled water at the walmart over the cost of making my own.... fascinating.

Thoughts for next steps, anyone?

@AZDesertRat - if you are still lurking around....

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

For the cloramines, it’s the carbon that does the heavy lifting. I have high cloramine too and as soon as the carbon is burned the di goes out fast. Bulk carbon the even the good stuff is cheap.

If you hook up the rodi correctly it should pass correctly through those fileers and and increase efficiency.

Let’s get some better Rodi guys here.
#reefsquad

 

[Muttley000]

Your membrane shouldn't be shot. I wonder if there is a way to get dual membranes? Seems like it would make a lot of reject water but your DI resin would last a long time. If not BRS has a 3 resin system that would at least only have you replacing the part of the resin that is being used up.

 

[OMGitsManBearPig]

Thanks salty. I’m pretty sure I’ve got it hooked up right.

I know much, much more today than I did Thursday. It just wasn’t until today I had the clarity of thought to put a TDS meter on the tap... everything you see in the post above is my honest story of how I got from ignorant to how RO/DI works on Thursday to where I am today.

 

[Trickman2]

This could help - I added one to my system https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-reverse-osmosis-chloramines-monster.html

 

[Lasse]

I´m not a RoDi guy but I know a little about Chloramines. Some of them normally pass through the membrans but it is not any problems - normal ascorbic acid (vitamin C) in small quantities take it away. One teaspoon to around 100 litre of water do the thing and you can´t overdose. Do you have any idea what it is that makes so high TDS. Calcium? If your tap water is high in Calcium - the membran will be clogged very fast.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[JoshH]

You definately need to handle the choramine issues first. Your membranes shouldn't be and don't seem to be shot given the numbers you've provided 92% is standard for most 75GPD membranes and you have to understand if you did plumb them in series your first membrane is dealing with your 880 TDS and the second is dealing with probably 1000 +TDS.

 

[OMGitsManBearPig]

Your membrane shouldn't be shot. I wonder if there is a way to get dual membranes? Seems like it would make a lot of reject water but your DI resin would last a long time. If not BRS has a 3 resin system that would at least only have you replacing the part of the resin that is being used up.

I completely agree, Muttley. I do have the dual 75GPD membranes hooked up what BRS markets as their 5 stage water saver model (2 carbon stages and a dual membrane before the DI). And yes - it’s probably an overstatement to say they are shot... but my ignorance - at minimum - severely limited their lifespan. I’ve been dumping 850+TDS water into them. That’s fine - I’ll just do better next time.

I also agree about the three stage DI. It would be very interesting to see if one is depleting faster than the other. But I’m not going to put 65 TDS water into any DI resin. I’ve got to get those membranes working harder.

 

[jsker]

What is your water pressure?

I notice after adding a booster pump my TDS went from 9 ish to zero and I thought my TDS was high at 185. I have the pressure now at 80 lbs compared to 45 lbs I run a double carbon filtration.

 

[Trickman2]

Is the filter is
CRFC20-BB Pentek CRFC20-BB Radial Flow C

Housing I used is

Pentek 20" Big Clear Filter Housing with 1" Ports and Pressure Release 1 $89.00 $89.00

 

[OMGitsManBearPig]

I´m not a RoDi guy but I know a little about Chloramines. Some of them normally pass through the membrans but it is not any problems - normal ascorbic acid (vitamin C) in small quantities take it away. One teaspoon to around 100 litre of water do the thing and you can´t overdose. Do you have any idea what it is that makes so high TDS. Calcium? If your tap water is high in Calcium - the membran will be clogged very fast.

Sincerely Lasse

Lasse,

Thanks, man.

Yes - I live in Odessa, TX. We have a waiver from EPA max TDS and other figures. In fact, as far as the municipality is concerned, We are passing all metrics.
Here is a copy of the Water quality report for everyone to take a look at:
http://www.odessa-tx.gov/home/showdocument?id=6115


There is a bunch of bad “stuff” in the water from FRAC’ing and other oilfield related activities.

 

[OMGitsManBearPig]

What is your water pressure?

I notice after adding a booster pump my TDS went from 9 ish to zero and I thought my TDS was high at 185. I have the pressure now at 80 lbs compared to 45 lbs I run a double carbon filtration.

Thanks , JSKER
Low - It’s 39-42 PSI.

I already have an Aquatec 8800 and solenoid on order from Amazon. It’ll be here Tuesday.

Thanks for the suggestion for EVERYONE!!
Please keep the feedback coming.

I love Reef2Reef

 

[OMGitsManBearPig]

This could help - I added one to my system https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-reverse-osmosis-chloramines-monster.html

I’m looking at that right now, actually... Nice suggestion!

 

[JoshH]

Have a quick look through this thread, there are a few others who have to deal with as high, and higher TDS than you, you might be able to snag some ideas from them..

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/so-whats-everyones-tap-tds-and-how-do-you-handle-it.355965/

The booster pump will definately help, I would suggest for now, running a single membrane instead of dual and see what your numbers are like.

 

[jsker]

Thanks , JSKER
Low - It’s 39-42 PSI.

I already have an Aquatec 8800 and solenoid on order from Amazon. It’ll be here Tuesday.

Thanks for the suggestion for EVERYONE!!
Please keep the feedback coming.

I love Reef2Reef

Seems like when you add the pressure, youe Ro membrane work so much more efficiently from what I am see myself and from what I read. I use to burn through DI fast at the lower pressure even with having to the carbon filters.

 

[KStatefan]

I would look at getting a treated membrane in addition to the pump. I would also just use one membrane.

 

[OMGitsManBearPig]

Have a quick look through this thread, there are a few others who have to deal with as high, and higher TDS than you, you might be able to snag some ideas from them..

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/so-whats-everyones-tap-tds-and-how-do-you-handle-it.355965/

The booster pump will definately help, I would suggest for now, running a single membrane instead of dual and see what your numbers are like.

OK that should be interesting to see what happens when I swap to a single Membrane. It didnt click for me that this could actually help until just now... interesting.

Seems like when you add the pressure, youe Ro membrane work so much more efficiently from what I am see myself and from what I read. I use to burn through DI fast at the lower pressure even with having to the carbon filters.

Yes - these membranes are rated (read: marketed) at 99%. So - I should be in the single digits - barely - even at 860TDS.



Here’s what I’m thinking, everyone.
I’ve bought a booster that will arrive Tuesday:
I’ll test the single membrane without booster
I’ll test a single membrane with a booster at 75-80PSI

I’ll be getting the three stage DI:
I will remove the single stage DI and convert it into some kind of additional prefilter.
I’m still exploring options - but I need to learn more about how to read this water report first.

I’ll consider a really big prefilter that uses inexpensive media - like a 20” carbon block or fiber block or something like that.

I’ll also consider the chloramine monster - though this seems a bit expensive for what it is... I’ll read more about it’s effect on membrane health. My membrane(s) need all the help they can get!

PS - TDS update on pure tap/post carbon: 866/853 with another 50 gallons through them.
I’m going to go ahead and shut down this massive money sink until more parts arrive.

 

[Amoo]

so just some food for thought. I realize the city of published a drinking water test, but if it were me I would grab a water sample and take it to your local Ag Extension and have it tested. You'll get a more comprehensive test and have a better idea of what exactly you need to remove.

As an example, based on my specific water sample out of my well I run an Anion only DI Resin before my mixed bed resin. I also don't have chlorine, because well water so I run 5 micron, 1 micron, into carbon just to feel better about myself.

 

[OMGitsManBearPig]

so just some food for thought. I realize the city of published a drinking water test, but if it were me I would grab a water sample and take it to your local Ag Extension and have it tested. You'll get a more comprehensive test and have a better idea of what exactly you need to remove.

As an example, based on my specific water sample out of my well I run an Anion only DI Resin before my mixed bed resin. I also don't have chlorine, because well water so I run 5 micron, 1 micron, into carbon just to feel better about myself.

I wish I could like this post twice.
Thank you for the suggestions. I will do this.

 

[KStatefan]

PS - TDS update on pure tap/post carbon: 866/853 with another 50 gallons through them.
I’m going to go ahead and shut down this massive money sink until more parts arrive.

The sediment and carbon filters will not have much effect on TDS they are just to protect the membrane