A must watch for anyone wanting to better understand cycling a tank

[jpnegrete14]

If you're planning on cycling a tank or you simply just want to better understand nitrifying bacteria in the marine aquarium THIS is the video for you! Dr. Hovanec explains cycling your tank in a manner in which you can walk away from this video with a meaningful plan to action and not feel just as confused at the end of the presentation as you did at the beginning. Which quite frankly is not some thing you can say about every thread, video, article etc. in the reefing community. It gives you very easy and understandable direction in cycling your tank. IMHO this is a must watch video for any newbie or experienced aquarist.

I've done a fishless cycle with Dr. Tim's approach and it absolutely worked. Even without me doing all the tips and tricks he shares in this video, but I am def going to employ all the tips with any new tank moving forward.

I'm sure this video has already been shared on here before but it deserves a big BUMP. Happy reefing!

 

[Auquanut]

I couldn't agree more. I've watched this presentation before, and Dr. Tim really breaks down the relationship/interaction between nitrite producing bacteria and nitrate producing bacteria in a way that most of us have never considered. Definitely a must watch.

 

[jpnegrete14]

I couldn't agree more. I've watched this presentation before, and Dr. Tim really breaks down the relationship/interaction between nitrite producing bacteria and nitrate producing bacteria in a way that most of us have never considered. Definitely a must watch.

It’s interesting how you can still be successful without fully understanding what you did to get there. Which I believe isn’t uncommon when it comes to cycling a tank. Especially your first tank.

The problem with that tho is it can make repeating that path to success very challenging. That’s assuming it even worked out for you the first time.

Personally I’ve cycled many tanks many different ways ie. throw a damsel in there, ghost feed, bacteria in a bottle, lights on, lights off, different timelines, live rock, dry rock, different interpretations of my test kit results. Let’s be honest we have a natural inclination to change bits and pieces here and there when we’re not really sure what is causing what. And reading threads from a 100 different people and getting answers to questions with a 100 different opinions and experiences can be overwhelming.

The fishless cycle and more importantly the understanding of how it works makes successfully cycling a tank easily repeatable every time. Dr. Tim lays out a plan for you, gives you all the information you need to understand what’s going on in your tank. He helps you understand what you’re testing for throughout the process AND how to make decisions based off your test kit. And you don’t risk any fish dying or getting ammonia burns during the cycle.

IME this is head and shoulders above any other method of cycling and something I wish I would have know about with my first tank(if it even existed at that time)

My goal with this thread was to inform new hobbyist about using a very easy and repeatable method of cycling their tank which will get them started on the right foot and avoid many of the early pitfalls.

And no I am not a Dr. Tim’s spokesperson or investor hahaha

 

[brandon429]

I want to point out a detraction to the above material.

With nitrite being factored as a cycle-staller, we have collected hundreds of people in posts re-buying bottle bac to unstick a cycle, when in fact nitrite cannot stall a cycle in any case, ever. Not once. its causing false sales, that statement.

nitrite might stall ammonia control in a lab, teased out cells on a slide, but it will not happen in a display with rocks and sand/attachment points.

I have sufficient numbers of live thread examples on file/ready to show that nitrite has literally no bearing in any reef cycle, and we'd never purchase bottle bac in reaction to nitrite, Cease testing for nitrite in display-tank reefing, that saves money and is opposite information from above.


second issue: false stalled cycles from ammonia non control. See this thread below, 8ppm is said to stall anyone's cycle, did it stall here?

100% Water Change

So in my previous thread, I had an ammonia issue that was out of hand. As suggested, I did a 100% WC and now i’m wondering when I should start adding fish back. If anyone has suggestions, let me know!

www.reef2reef.com

Reef tank cycles cannot stall, forcing us to have to re-buy more $ dosers. Ever notice how the macna conventions never fail to reach a start date for any meeting for 25 years (no stalls, the sellers)


no doubt Dr. Tim's way is a strong way to cycle, but we have also found addressable gaps in the system and we changed some rules up, and it works exactly the same way, only cheaper.


Its important to know that not once has any reef tank cycle stalled, that's the third opposite claim to the info above.

here's what I mean by stall:

taking longer than the directions on the bottle says it will take. needing to repurchase another strain of bac, to address a 'stalled' one, is driving sales falsely in this hobby I have hundreds of examples on file of posts where they claimed stall, and they were not.

no reef cycles stall. see if seneye nh3 agrees or not with that statement, api never will.

challenge: find and post a seneye user who says ammonia control did not occur by the dates stated on a common cycling chart.

If I could change one thing about cycling paradigms, it would be to remove the risk of incompletion, cycles will always complete, depending on how you measure a completed cycle.

I have never seen a stalled cycle in reefing. Ive seen someone's brightwell cycle take twice as long as dr tim's, that's not a stall brightwell is slow like molasses but it still meets a consistent timeframe for that strain.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The fishless cycle and more importantly the understanding of how it works makes successfully cycling a tank easily repeatable every time.

You know that because he told you that?

No one who follows his plan ever has issues?

 

[jpnegrete14]

You know that because he told you that?

No one who follows his plan ever has issues?

First off I have a tremendous amount of respect for you and everything you contribute to this community and am always willing to learn or admit I’m wrong if that’s the case but I don’t quite understand the point of your questions.

If the standard of being able to say something is easily repeatable with success can only be said if you know that no one has ever failed at it than I don’t think there’s really anything we can say in this hobby is repeatable. I don’t know of one thing in this hobby that at least one person hasn't failed at despite others having success with the same approach.

I certainly didn’t just make statements on a whim. Many hobbyist myself included have had success with a fishless cycle using his approach, the products have overall great reviews on trusted websites like BRS, BRS had a video on it and suggested watching the MACNA presentation. That to me personally holds a lot of weight. BRS videos are a huge part of my success in the hobby.

I’ve never spoken with Dr. Tim in my life nor did I suggest I have. When I said he laid out a plan, gives you the information etc. I was referring to the video of his presentation where he is speaking to anyone who’s watching.

 

[jpnegrete14]

I want to point out a detraction to the above material.

With nitrite being factored as a cycle-staller, we have collected hundreds of people in posts re-buying bottle bac to unstick a cycle, when in fact nitrite cannot stall a cycle in any case, ever. Not once. its causing false sales, that statement.

nitrite might stall ammonia control in a lab, teased out cells on a slide, but it will not happen in a display with rocks and sand/attachment points.

I have sufficient numbers of live thread examples on file/ready to show that nitrite has literally no bearing in any reef cycle, and we'd never purchase bottle bac in reaction to nitrite, Cease testing for nitrite in display-tank reefing, that saves money and is opposite information from above.


second issue: false stalled cycles from ammonia non control. See this thread below, 8ppm is said to stall anyone's cycle, did it stall here?

100% Water Change

So in my previous thread, I had an ammonia issue that was out of hand. As suggested, I did a 100% WC and now i’m wondering when I should start adding fish back. If anyone has suggestions, let me know!

www.reef2reef.com

Reef tank cycles cannot stall, forcing us to have to re-buy more $ dosers. Ever notice how the macna conventions never fail to reach a start date for any meeting for 25 years (no stalls, the sellers)


no doubt Dr. Tim's way is a strong way to cycle, but we have also found addressable gaps in the system and we changed some rules up, and it works exactly the same way, only cheaper.


Its important to know that not once has any reef tank cycle stalled, that's the third opposite claim to the info above.

here's what I mean by stall:

taking longer than the directions on the bottle says it will take. needing to repurchase another strain of bac, to address a 'stalled' one, is driving sales falsely in this hobby I have hundreds of examples on file of posts where they claimed stall, and they were not.

no reef cycles stall. see if seneye nh3 agrees or not with that statement, api never will.

challenge: find and post a seneye user who says ammonia control did not occur by the dates stated on a common cycling chart.

If I could change one thing about cycling paradigms, it would be to remove the risk of incompletion, cycles will always complete, depending on how you measure a completed cycle.

I have never seen a stalled cycle in reefing. Ive seen someone's brightwell cycle take twice as long as dr tim's, that's not a stall brightwell is slow like molasses but it still meets a consistent timeframe for that strain.

I appreciate the info. I didn’t realize people were buying more bacteria in the middle of a cycle using this approach. I’ll def check out that link you sent me. Thanks

 

[brandon429]

Here’s a bunch of not stuck cycles:

We should use the collective power of the chem forum to prove or deny the possibility of sustained .25 ammonia in reefing

Why does it matter if reef tanks can have stuck cycles? Because when you move homes you don't want to lose animals, cycling science needs precision and predictability in order to protect our tanks. perhaps an emergency setup is needed, no wait time permitted or If you are invited to show...

www.reef2reef.com

work threads are messy slogs of theory being tested forgive the rough arrangement + constant skepticism about rules

we use modified cycle rules above for pages and updates are seen in their posts. No stuck cycles no repurchases allowed

I did get to meet Dr Tim at aqua shella 2018 and I was really happy about that, very neat.


his bottle bac mix has worked well in our tracked cycles. Ten days avg

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If the standard of being able to say something is easily repeatable with success can only be said if you know that no one has ever failed at it than I don’t think there’s really anything we can say in this hobby is repeatable.

I'm just focusing on the pretty strong and unambiguous statement " The fishless cycle and more importantly the understanding of how it works makes successfully cycling a tank easily repeatable every time. "

While I certainly think Tim knows bacteria and cycling well, there are plenty of posted experiences with poor outcomes, often attributed to "dead" bacteria in the bottle, perhaps for lack of any other apparent reason.

I certainly wouldn't quibble with a more balanced statement like "this is a great way to cycle a reef tank."

 

[jpnegrete14]

I'm just focusing on the pretty strong and unambiguous statement " The fishless cycle and more importantly the understanding of how it works makes successfully cycling a tank easily repeatable every time. "

While I certainly think Tim knows bacteria and cycling well, there are plenty of posted experiences with poor outcomes, often attributed to "dead" bacteria in the bottle, perhaps for lack of any other apparent reason.

I certainly wouldn't quibble with a more balanced statement like "this is a great way to cycle a reef tank."

Okay now we’re on the same page.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

I love a vicious cycle thread. ;Vamp

I have never had an issue with cycling and find his wording fairly accurate. I think Dr. Tims speedy process is successful a majority of the time and we hear about the failures on occasion. No one would be posting a thread if a cycle works out exactly how it is supposed to.

 

[jpnegrete14]

Here’s a bunch of not stuck cycles:

We should use the collective power of the chem forum to prove or deny the possibility of sustained .25 ammonia in reefing

Why does it matter if reef tanks can have stuck cycles? Because when you move homes you don't want to lose animals, cycling science needs precision and predictability in order to protect our tanks. perhaps an emergency setup is needed, no wait time permitted or If you are invited to show...

www.reef2reef.com

work threads are messy slogs of theory being tested forgive the rough arrangement + constant skepticism about rules

we use modified cycle rules above for pages and updates are seen in their posts. No stuck cycles no repurchases allowed

I did get to meet Dr Tim at aqua shella 2018 and I was really happy about that, very neat.


his bottle bac mix has worked well in our tracked cycles. Ten days avg

No worries. It’s challenging enough to correctly interpret tones in messages with people you know! Lol

 

[jpnegrete14]

I love a vicious cycle thread. ;Vamp

I have never had an issue with cycling and find his wording fairly accurate. I think Dr. Tims speedy process is successful a majority of the time and we hear about the failures on occasion. No one would be posting a thread if a cycle works out exactly how it is supposed to.

Oh let’s go! And all the people of all the land said, “They were known as the the great cycle talks” haha

 

[brandon429]

there is something fun about investigating gaps in reefkeeping rules and practice
it all seems like such firm rules at the start, noncompliance is a dead reef tank lost cash.

1998:
you cannot keep small reefs they'll die.
15 gal was smallest we'd seen/the article about Julian's nano
then someone did 14 gal, then 13 lol on and on till 1/4 gallon with sps in it was alive, rendering the initial rule as flexible and not firm.


nowadays its cycling. they can stall, you wait longer.
i noticed not one macna, not one aquashella, not a reefstock, not the ten other conventions had to delay a day or three over nitrite readings lol.

or .25

So what I like to do is aim the firm rule against alternate findings and see what the real truth is regarding cycling.


if I type stalled cycle into google then a bunch of cycles that are not stalled come up, plus the retail means to fix the issue claimed. that to me is interesting. literally 100% of the posters stating stuck .25 ammonia and some + nitrite had fully working reefs, open corals, clean water, happy fish feeding etc, not one iota of being burned was apparent


and then in veterinary or human medicine, we read that ammonia noncontrol/kidney malfunction is a fast killer and no higher organisms live without kidney function (acting normally) for three days, but a reef can be "stuck" in ammonia control and these delicate organisms live> I dont think so, ergo the cycles were never stuck in the first place.

agreed dead bottle bac would not complete on time, the system will revert to the unassisted cycle time which means add saltwater, rocks and sand, and wait weeks until it self-cycles off contaminations alone/all the 1980's.



Something else interesting about our cycling charts, the one million cycling charts we can see on google

they're for freshwater


nobody has a marine one, wow. I am 100% sure that if we set up a dry reef system per those charts and wait ten days we do not get ammonia control, nor nitrite compliance by day ~22, in marine systems we have to dose for that.


*or just skip the cycle by inputting already cycled rocks (how marine conventions start on time)


There is still a lot left to learn about marine aquarium cycling.

nobody knows how long an unassisted marine cycle takes, its not charted. freshwater is

I am 100% sure an epoxy gravel, plastic filter, plastic plants freshwater nano system on day one will not keep a group of platies and swords alive for three days, they'll all die and the water will go gray

but if you set up the tank, wait 30 days, they all live, because we know freshwater unassisted cycle times- reliable and does not stall either

 

[brandon429]

a new reefer is safe using Dr Tim's methods agreed. its just fun to hack them for different outcomes as we all get bored at home in quarantine

 

[jpnegrete14]

a new reefer is safe using Dr Tim's methods agreed. its just fun to hack them for different outcomes as we all get bored at home in quarantine

And that’s really what I was trying to drive home. IME it’s an excellent option especially for a beginner. I guess the caveat is getting through it with only purchasing one bottle of bacteria ;Happy and yes quarantine stinks! So over it