a working dsb

[Wiz]

Hey guys. Just wanted to show how my dsb is working. And how you know its healthy.
A healthy dsb should be whte with exception to algae between glass and sand. When you disturb it the shifting of the sand will kill micro and macrofauna. The death of which will create a pocket of bad gas in the sand which will show as black in the sand. If a dsb endores too much death the entire thing can die and cause this gas to build which is where the horror stories come from. Release of this build up into the water column will cause mass death in your reef.
On the other hand, a healthy dsb will repair itself as long as the damage is not to bad. The micro and macrofauna will eat away at this bad gas and cycle it out of the sand like waste. Returning the afflicted area to health. I just happen to have an example as I recently added a mangrove.
So I dug up the corner of my dsb and planted the mangrove. In a day or two the black death appeared. The first pic was taken a week or so later. It did not occur to me it would be a good example until later. But the second pic is about a month later. You can see how the bed is cleaning the area. Its my understanding that a healthy dsb is no worry. My bed is about 8 months old when I disturbed it with no ill affect on the tank. The large black area in lower right corner and a half dollar size spot to the upper left of it. See the almost dissappearence of the smaller area and the reduction of size and darkness in the large spot.
I am no expert, this is my understanding of it. Anyone who can correct, expand or clarify this more is welcome

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Hi Wiz. Genius Idea for a thread. Thank you. Can you add a FTS of the fuge?

Im quite surprised to not see more worms deep in the sand after 8 months. Esp you my fellow bug lover.

What many don't understand is, the mud(oolitic sand and buildup of organics and macro organisms & waste creating soil = mud) needs to breathe naturally and keep water circulating through it. Also its the mechanism that delivers nutrients to the beneficial bacteria deep in the sand.

Its the worms and some snails are that burrow tunnels through the mud allowing for off gassing of nitrogen, and preventing the build up of pockets of anaerobic areas that bacteria will build up in and produce sulphur dioxide(rotten egg smell), that when poked or disturbed kill everything (red tide and several deep freshwater lakes) , as you had mentioned.
The constant circulation factor provided by the worms is also I believe is what mitigates the possible sulfur production if there is a large die off in the sand.

Thus its also my theory (and I havent checked with Ron Shimek), thats its actually ok to have smaller burrowing sand animals(tiny mantis?) in a true DSB as it allows further the needed circulation, but larger sand sifters like starfish and horseshoe crabs are obviously a bad choice as they eat the micro flora and fauna that are the workforce needed to maintain circulation as well as eat detritus further breaking it down for the nitrifying bacteria to consume.

Ive read just about everything Ron Shimek has published on the internet, and his brain is very Large, so this is what I understood from his writing in my tiny brain.

So if you want a DSB you must luv bugs.

 

[Wiz]

Yeah, I dont have a huge population of worms. I honestly believe the oolitic sand that shimek recomended is too small in grain size to allow for easy movement through the sand. At night I get a bunch of spagetti type worms in the top inch where the sand grain is larger. But I only see one type of worm in the oolitic sand. Ill get a pic and vid tonight. I am hoping to order from ipsf in the spring to expand my macrofauna. But its hard to find a good variety. :-( luckily the bed seems to function well. My pod pop is awsome. So hopefully I can make it better. I thought about slowly adding some more large grain sand to the lower level but I don't want to mess it up. That oolitic sand moves like water though. Its very hard to tunnel in it without collapse. Which makes me wonder why it was recomended by shimek.

 

[Wiz]

This was yesterday after clean out.

 

[Wiz]

Not to mention I have atleast one inhabitant that shouldn't be in there. (Small horseshoe) and I wonder about the nassarius snails also. But I figured they would help turn the sand a bit.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Yeah, I dont have a huge population of worms. I honestly believe the oolitic sand that shimek recomended is too small in grain size to allow for easy movement through the sand. At night I get a bunch of spagetti type worms in the top inch where the sand grain is larger. But I only see one type of worm in the oolitic sand. Ill get a pic and vid tonight. I am hoping to order from ipsf in the spring to expand my macrofauna. But its hard to find a good variety. :-( luckily the bed seems to function well. My pod pop is awsome. So hopefully I can make it better. I thought about slowly adding some more large grain sand to the lower level but I don't want to mess it up. That oolitic sand moves like water though. Its very hard to tunnel in it without collapse. Which makes me wonder why it was recomended by shimek.

Hes using olite as the base, I did a mix, but got too thick, not enough oolite. So mine is a bit of a Faux DSB. Once the mud settles naturally under weight it compacts, and the animals figure it out. we over think and they just work around us. Most of the worms are excreting mucus to bind the sand like tube worms, and some are hard shells some are soft. evolution based on environment. ever watch the plain white ones build a tube from a rock to a sand bed by picking up rocks from the sand below then travel through it to the sand? and my spaghetti's have told me the sand grain is too thick by not burrowing, now they are finding places to cling instead of burrow.
Im a bad worm daddy.

Edit, I kinda have to believe Ron, he did spend a lifetime learning all this.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Not to mention I have atleast one inhabitant that shouldn't be in there. (Small horseshoe) and I wonder about the nassarius snails also. But I figured they would help turn the sand a bit.

unfortunately He will likely not make it. I wish and hope it is different.

 

[Wiz]

I put him in at the beginning. I just saw him 2 weeks ago. He does stay hidden most of the time.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

@Eckolancer would you chime in. tryin to kick it oldschool.

 

[Eckolancer]

When I had a DSB back in the day I used a larger grain size. I would see thousands of pods burrowing from the bottom to the top of the sandbed. I did have nassarius and sand sifting star for years in there. I did have a sand sifting goby that one day moved his home and dug a whole about 6" under a rock. This is what caused that tank to crash on me. The little bit of black you are seeing might be ok, as I would have some from time to time.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

When I had a DSB back in the day I used a larger grain size. I would see thousands of pods burrowing from the bottom to the top of the sandbed. I did have nassarius and sand sifting star for years in there. I did have a sand sifting goby that one day moved his home and dug a whole about 6" under a rock. This is what caused that tank to crash on me. The little bit of black you are seeing might be ok, as I would have some from time to time.

Thank you. Its always best to combine good research and compare it to actual user experience.

 

[Alucard]

Wow pretty cool. Im thinking of doing this with my 20l once my 40b is established. How large a grain do you guys recommend and how deep?

 

[jamie callard]

Following in detail question if sand starts black is there a way to tell that your bed is dieing. I have. 90g tank adding a 56g fuge that will have a deep sand bed but it will be black photos to come on friday

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Following in detail question if sand starts black is there a way to tell that your bed is dieing. I have. 90g tank adding a 56g fuge that will have a deep sand bed but it will be black photos to come on friday

black sand?

 

[Alucard]

black sand?

Maybe he means tahitian moon

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Yea, I have my doubts about black sand. Ive done very little Little research on the theory. But If the grains are imbued with so much with carbon and minerals I dont see as to how its porous enough to hold a good bacterial population and allow flow. Looking at it in a jewelers loupe its much smoother.
I did one tank with black and wont again. Glass scratcher and higher nutrient, but that may have been due to other probs.

Wow pretty cool. Im thinking of doing this with my 20l once my 40b is established. How large a grain do you guys recommend and how deep?

I did oolite with sugar and then thicker moving up and capped with the sugar for eye appeal. Looking for guidance too. Ron Shimek says OoLoite I believe and calls it mud. see above.
currently my DSB is about 3.5in and im not seeing a lot of bugs (and boy I love bugs)so Id been wondering if I had gone too thick a grain myself.

 

[TCFletch]

I just bought 200 lbs of sand for my 240g. I have about 80 lbs of Special Grade, 40 lbs medium sized, and 80 lbs sugar fine. I plan on putting the sugar on the bottom and mixing the other two together to add to the top for my shrimp goby/jawfish/pistol to hang out in. When I do a water change I will vacuum just the very top without disturbing the sand bed. What do you guys think?

 

[jamie callard]

Got 60 lbs of this live sand to put in the tank

 

[Alucard]

Yea, I have my doubts about black sand. Little research. But If the grains are imbued with so much with carbon and minerals I dont see as to how its porous enough to hold a good bacterial population. Looking at it in a jewelers loupe its much smoother.


I did oolite with sugar and then thicker moving up and capped with the sugar for eye appeal. Looking for guidance too. Ron Shimek says OoLoite I believe and calls it mud. see above.
currently my DSB is about 3.5in and im not seeing a lot of bugs (and boy I love bugs)so Id been wondering if I had gone too thick a grain myself.

Me too! I got a lot of my critters from garf, but always looking for diversity. I have a pretty cool video of a spaghetti worm on my tank thread

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Me too! I got a lot of my critters from garf, but always looking for diversity. I have a pretty cool video of a spaghetti worm on my tank thread

Sweet! Yea Ill be garfing on the next build. Or rebuild I should say