Upgrading to bigger tank what do I do with DSB?

[Billyreef-ita]

Hi everybody,
I’m upgrading from 35G to 75G tank. Right now I’m running a DSB tank, my question is: could DSB be moved to the new tank?
Some people say it is not possible at it will release toxic substances when touched and it would be better to take just some old sand to inoculate a new substrate of sand in the new tank.
I thought that moving all the DSB to the new tank would have avoided or at least reduced the ugly phase.
What do I do?

 

[steveschuerger]

Just put in new. Get CribSea Ocean Direct. I used that when I moved from my previous 60 into the 90 I have now. Pretty much no ugly phase at all. And I recommend gettin at least 30-40 more lbs of live rock. Tampa Bay Saltwater and Gulf Live Rock I like a lot

 

[rc8t6353]

Don't reuse the sand. The beneficial stuff is mostly in your rocks anyway. I just upgraded tanks and got new sand but used all my old rock. I only got a slight diatom outbreak., but no cycle at all

 

[divewsharks]

Hi everybody,
I’m upgrading from 35G to 75G tank. Right now I’m running a DSB tank, my question is: could DSB be moved to the new tank?
Some people say it is not possible at it will release toxic substances when touched and it would be better to take just some old sand to inoculate a new substrate of sand in the new tank.
I thought that moving all the DSB to the new tank would have avoided or at least reduced the ugly phase.
What do I do?

Do not try to move it, will only cause you pain. Just go with new sand. You can save the DSB sand, wash/clean/dry and use for another tank. down the road.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

To reuse it, it would take a lot of prep work that may not be worth it. If you want to reuse it to contribute to a new DSB. Buy some new sand for a 1 inch sand bed and clean your old sand in a large container of SW and filter and carbon. But even that may not be worth the hassle.

 

[VintageReefer]

I tried to transfer (steal) 5 cups of sand from my sump to start my pico, and it took over a hour to clean it. And this was 5 cups

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

I tried to transfer (steal) 5 cups of sand from my sump to start my pico, and it took over a hour to clean it. And this was 5 cups

When I consolidated my two temperate nanos into a RS170. I had hundreds of microbrittles in the sand I did not want to lose. That was a week of hell...

 

[VintageReefer]

You saved yourself a lot of money! They are 10 for 50$ shipped online

 

[Billyreef-ita]

So everybody agrees to start with new sand
The point is that you spend one year to mature a good dsb and after it’s difficult to let it go

 

[aSaltyKlown]

It depends on your budget and/or how much work you want to put in. I combined a 13.5 Evo and a 20 Cube that was about 30lbs of sand that I rinsed and reused.

It's a straightforward process. I split the sand into two buckets and rinsed until it was clear water that I was dumping out. It's best if you have a hose that can get the water to the bottom of the bucket through the sand. This helps get it stirred. Rinse and repeat. It took an hour, maybe two. It does not have to be crystal clear, but clear enough you do not see cloudiness in the water. I don't do a final rinse in RO either as there is not enough tap water in the sand to make a difference.

Or use new and then you have 35lbs of sand you can prep for the next tank. I don't like to throw out good things or just have a bunch of sand sitting around so I reuse what I can.

 

[Billyreef-ita]

I agree, I’m using new sand for the new tank and store after cleaned the old one. You’ll never know

 

[mboley]

So everybody agrees to start with new sand
The point is that you spend one year to mature a good dsb and after it’s difficult to let it go

There is a ton of denitrification you're going to lose on the transfer. I would expect Nitrate issues. I switched an established tank one time; I rinsed the substrate and put it back in to disastrous results; rtn and stn on several SPS.

At a MACNA conference a few months later Dr Tim was there and asked him what happened. He said I killed my substrate, which is what you'll be doing with an all new substrate. I made the mistake of rinsing with freshwater; maybe rinsing with saltwater would have been different; I can't remember asking him that though. I'd be tempted to rinse at least a portion of your substrate with saltwater and reuse some of it mixed with new substrate.

 

[MoshJosh]

This is just hypothetical. . . NOT ADVISING THIS!!!

Could you sort of encapsulate the old DSB within new sand? Transfer the still wet DSB into the new EMPTY tank. Spread the DSB out into a thinner layer covering most of the bottom with a one inch gap between the DSB and the walls of the tank. Then lay new caribsea sand over the top of that in a thick later. Then very carefully, and without disturbing the bed, fill the tank up. . .

I know this is apples to oranges, but people do this from time to time in freshwater tanks to transfer over the nutrient rich aquasoil and some bacteria while still getting a clean look with new substrate on top.

Again, I am NOT advising you do do this. Just wondering if it has been done?

 

[SKEETER1978]

i would wash clean and reuse... maybe save some to seed new sand

 

[brandon429]

Here's sixty pages of tank transfers all using tap water rinsing
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/official-sand-rinse-and-tank-transfer-thread.230281/Dr Tim wasn't correct about the biome lost but it made sense at the time i get it

The end fact on file is all those tank transfers were full tap rinses, and no other method runs a giant tank transfer thread.

If you want a variable outcome, don't rinse your dsb and transfer it

If you want the exact results from the work thread, you'd fully tap rinse it 100% ripped clean. Laser clear starts with live rock positioned on the sandbed skips the cycle. The sandbed bacteria aren't required biomass, which is why rinsing them out isn't a problem

The live rock has the bacteria you need, the sandbed mainly collects and fills with waste.

Directly opposite are the findings of the work thread regarding biome control: power rinsing out a reef tank like a dentist does to a human mouth to prevent organic tooth decay let's existing biome function naturally. Removal of bulk waste provided the balance, fancy dosing and purchases not required.

In the description above about the failed rinse system, a step we use is missing in the description. Any tanks ran through the sand rinse thread will be doing great afterwards and I wish that example didn't crash.

The real truth is that within the biofilms attached securely to live rock surfaces are the strains of bacteria that run your biome

Not subjecting those crucial bacterial layers to be insulated in layers and layers of waste detritus is our study

We show by quality of the system afterwards the biome was never harmed. The keen reader will spot a few aquabiomics reports after a full system rip clean.

What outcome do the patterns show: happy tanks, all 60 pages using one tightly controlled single variable point: the full tap water rinse bed rinse to absolute cloudlessness

 

[brandon429]

The truth on using "seeds" such as handfuls of established sand to input into other systems:

If you can find a sixty page tank transfer work thread using that method please post it

I have examples where that caused harm, made fish die soon after.


People don't lose their fish here, soon after.

Until then, the only 100% method is to post there, rinse and verify the cloudless state of samples for the bed, rasp off any rock invasions while it's disassembled and then: immediately lower your tanks overall lighting -30%

And sustain over ten or so days long slow ramp up. That order of ops is what skip cycles all those tanks, it can be done.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The truth on using "seeds" such as handfuls of established sand to input into other systems:

If you can find a sixty page tank transfer work thread using that method please post it

I have examples where that caused harm, made fish die soon after.

Sand, rock, coral, fish, anything that comes from another system can bring good and bad.

One can find any number of reasons for a system crashing. To go and tell people that adding a cup of live sand from another system is bad is as ludicrous as telling them not to add live rock from another system.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Hi everybody,
I’m upgrading from 35G to 75G tank. Right now I’m running a DSB tank, my question is: could DSB be moved to the new tank?
Some people say it is not possible at it will release toxic substances when touched and it would be better to take just some old sand to inoculate a new substrate of sand in the new tank.
I thought that moving all the DSB to the new tank would have avoided or at least reduced the ugly phase.
What do I do?

You can't move a DSB that is not in a container of some kind. A true DSB is comprised of several different zones that will be destroyed when you try to move it. Other than the detritus that is trapped and will be released, there is a significant amount of fauna living in the bed and the act of scooping and moving this will kill a tremendous amount of this life. Delicate pods and worms do not hold up well.

AS others have mentioned, washing sand is valid, but it is a LOT of work. I would start with new sand and seed it with a few cups of the old. You don't need to do this (you are moving your rock) but it will not hurt and can help speed up the process.

With new sand there is the potential for ugly, but like anything it will pass.