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Apollo7235

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Hopefully you get something helpful from your test results. Keep watching your email because I got my notice from ATI that the sample was received just after midnight on Tues and had a notice that my results were ready 5 hours later!
Oh heck yeah! I’m hoping that will be the case!

I can’t even express how relieved I will be once I have these results. Reefing has literally gone from an immense joy to depression for me and I really want to get back to being able to enjoy my tank instead of having a sinking feeling every time I see it.
 

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Maybe I missed it, but what is your feeding regimen for your display and what your feeding regimen in your QT (coral and fish). How many times on what days are you feeding how much of what food?

Forgive me but it's a long thread at this point. All of your residual nutrients test to the same levels on both?

You get much better algae growth in your QT right?

If you're moving in a few mo I wouldn't worry to much about anything right now. You'll have to break everything down to move and restart when you get settled again anyway.
 

stephj03

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And I would ditch whatever LFS is taking care of you right now if they sent you home with NPS this early.

Or I would start listening to them if they tried to get you to bring a leather frag home and you left with a sun coral anyway.


Do not freak if the ICP doesn't show a slam dunk. As far as I can tell, new tanks are like new babies. There's a huge spread on how fast they grow and hit various milestones.

Your DT can clearly keep fish. At 3-4 mo that's about where I was and wanted to be.

And your QT can clearly keep corals.


That's actually a great place to be in the hobby.

Whatever tank that sun coral is plugging along in, you did that! Take time to appreciate that accomplishment.

You prob be shocked how many of the pp throwing advice at you haven't ever gotten one of those past 3wk in any system. Including me.HTH


PXL_20210120_085123941.PORTRAIT-01~2.jpeg
 
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Maybe I missed it, but what is your feeding regimen for your display and what your feeding regimen in your QT (coral and fish). How many times on what days are you feeding how much of what food?

Forgive me but it's a long thread at this point. All of your residual nutrients test to the same levels on both?

You get much better algae growth in your QT right?

If you're moving in a few mo I wouldn't worry to much about anything right now. You'll have to break everything down to move and restart when you get settled again anyway.
Before I realized there was a major problem, I was target feeding a frozen slurry (SBB Mysis, Baby Brine, Carnivore Cuisine, Coral Frenzy NLS A Plus pellets, and PE Mysis Flakes, all soaked in Selcon), twice a day.

Now, I feed the fish and shrimp each night and the coral in the QT every other day or every two days.

I have a ridiculous amount of algae in my QT presently, to the point that it is actually beginning to smother everything. I am going to peroxide scrub/dip my corals, scrape the glass, vacuum the sand bed, and do a 50% water change this weekend and get it back on my Vibrant dosing schedule.

When I tested both tanks and compared them, they weren't terribly different. Nothing majorly different, mostly just the nutrient levels considering the size and stocking differences in the tanks.
And I would ditch whatever LFS is taking care of you right now if they sent you home with NPS this early.

Or I would start listening to them if they tried to get you to bring a leather frag home and you left with a sun coral anyway.


Do not freak if the ICP doesn't show a slam dunk. As far as I can tell, new tanks are like new babies. There's a huge spread on how fast they grow and hit various milestones.

Your DT can clearly keep fish. At 3-4 mo that's about where I was and wanted to be.

And your QT can clearly keep corals.


That's actually a great place to be in the hobby.

Whatever tank that sun coral is plugging along in, you did that! Take time to appreciate that accomplishment.

You prob be shocked how many of the pp throwing advice at you haven't ever gotten one of those past 3wk in any system. Including me.HTH


PXL_20210120_085123941.PORTRAIT-01~2.jpeg
It wasn't the LFS that sold me the NPS, I actually bought them from a fellow R2R member. That was 100% my doing, not anyone else's. Fortunately, it worked out for all 5 of my NPS. ;)

I actually just got my ICP results this morning and I think I can see the problem(s). See my next post!
 
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Well, the results are finally in!! See attached or below!

//lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/6c33d5869dcac42e5f0c
//lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/2c6a247a84f6852f279e

I see that apparently I need to buy a new tool to measure my salinity because my refractometer (which I keep meticulously calibrated) always shows 1.025 on my tanks. I suppose I'll put in an order for a Hanna checker when I order what I need to correct the other issues with the tank. I also have Brightwell Kalkwasser on hand, so I will have to do some research on how to properly dose that into my ATO system.

So clearly, the silicon coming from my RODI water needs to be addressed and apparently RODI systems aren't the best thing for removing it from source water; any recommendations on the best way to do this? My TDS meter shows 0 on the output and my RODI cannisters are still fairly new, for reference.

As far as the copper, should I dose Cuprisorb? I honestly have absolutely no idea where this could be coming from. Copper has never been added to my system and I don't have any copper in my tank. All of my equipment is brand new and I checked it all when I tested for stray voltage a few weeks ago. Any ideas?

Could the extremely high level of Manganese be causing issues? If so, I honestly have no idea what to do about it. I am assuming it is coming from my salt mix and with such limited livestock, it isn't being consumed as quickly as it is being replenished... Do I need to take measures to correct this?

As far as the Zinc and Tin levels.... Help?
 

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tehmadreefer

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None of those are what is causing all your problems. The problems you have, are from an immature tank and too much change and fiddling around. Also take out marine pure and use rock instead.
 

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Well, the results are finally in!! See attached or below!

//lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/6c33d5869dcac42e5f0c
//lab.atiaquaristik.com/share/2c6a247a84f6852f279e

I see that apparently I need to buy a new tool to measure my salinity because my refractometer (which I keep meticulously calibrated) always shows 1.025 on my tanks. I suppose I'll put in an order for a Hanna checker when I order what I need to correct the other issues with the tank. I also have Brightwell Kalkwasser on hand, so I will have to do some research on how to properly dose that into my ATO system.

So clearly, the silicon coming from my RODI water needs to be addressed and apparently RODI systems aren't the best thing for removing it from source water; any recommendations on the best way to do this? My TDS meter shows 0 on the output and my RODI cannisters are still fairly new, for reference.

As far as the copper, should I dose Cuprisorb? I honestly have absolutely no idea where this could be coming from. Copper has never been added to my system and I don't have any copper in my tank. All of my equipment is brand new and I checked it all when I tested for stray voltage a few weeks ago. Any ideas?

Could the extremely high level of Manganese be causing issues? If so, I honestly have no idea what to do about it. I am assuming it is coming from my salt mix and with such limited livestock, it isn't being consumed as quickly as it is being replenished... Do I need to take measures to correct this?

As far as the Zinc and Tin levels.... Help?
Interesting indeed! Nothing really terrible there. To go from ug/l to ppm divide by 1000 so the copper at 30ug/l is .03ppm. I would pull the marine pure if they are as bad as you say. They could certainly be leaching something, not just Al. Some cuprisorb and or poly-filter might help remove some of the metals. I wouldn't worry about Manganese I don't think those levels are a concern. Algae will consume it, it will precipitate also.
According to Fauna Marine
"HI.
Sometimes is really hard to say what type of decoration and salts causes which type of high metals, But in case of manganese and iron it come mostly from the anticaking agent which wich is used in some salt brands. The detection if the manganese and iron in this ammount is salt based but this is not bioavailable and mostly after a few days the skimmer take it out"

What are you using to calibrate the refractometer?

You want to dose Kalk for?? Your alk is low and Mg is low but if your salinity is low that will affect the levels of other things. So bring your salinity up to 1.026sg and then check Alk/Ca/Mg. Good targets after you confirm salinity is correct - Alk 8, Ca 425ish ppm, Mg 1400ish ppm

Regarding Si in the RODI, I think the only way to deal with it is run a multi stage post RO system. In the long run if you have the space it will save you money on DI and produce better water. Mine goes through a Cation cartridge then Anion and a final mixed bed cartridge. The Cation and Mixed bed is almost never depleted the Anion is the one that gets used up much much faster so I only have to buy Anion media.
 
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Apollo7235

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Interesting indeed! Nothing really terrible there. To go from ug/l to ppm divide by 1000 so the copper at 30ug/l is .03ppm. I would pull the marine pure if they are as bad as you say. They could certainly be leaching something, not just Al. Some cuprisorb and or poly-filter might help remove some of the metals. I wouldn't worry about Manganese I don't think those levels are a concern. Algae will consume it, it will precipitate also.
According to Fauna Marine
"HI.
Sometimes is really hard to say what type of decoration and salts causes which type of high metals, But in case of manganese and iron it come mostly from the anticaking agent which wich is used in some salt brands. The detection if the manganese and iron in this ammount is salt based but this is not bioavailable and mostly after a few days the skimmer take it out"

What are you using to calibrate the refractometer?

You want to dose Kalk for?? Your alk is low and Mg is low but if your salinity is low that will affect the levels of other things. So bring your salinity up to 1.026sg and then check Alk/Ca/Mg. Good targets after you confirm salinity is correct - Alk 8, Ca 425ish ppm, Mg 1400ish ppm

Regarding Si in the RODI, I think the only way to deal with it is run a multi stage post RO system. In the long run if you have the space it will save you money on DI and produce better water. Mine goes through a Cation cartridge then Anion and a final mixed bed cartridge. The Cation and Mixed bed is almost never depleted the Anion is the one that gets used up much much faster so I only have to buy Anion media.

I have to wonder if that little bit of copper is what keeps killing my snails and ticking off my corals.. it is toxic to them, correct?

I have a MarineDepot brand refractometer and the instructions say to use distilled water to calibrate it, so that’s what I do. It’s strange that it’s so far off.. I literally check the calibration almost every time I use it and it has never needed to be adjusted beyond the initial calibration.

I will definitely do that and re-check. I have always had low alk and pH, unfortunately. I think Tropic Marin Pro just mixes that way.

I currently have a 4-stage system, but I guess that’s no enough. Is there something I can buy singly and add to it? I really don’t want to but another system considering the one I have is barely a few months old.
 

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I have to wonder if that little bit of copper is what keeps killing my snails and ticking off my corals.. it is toxic to them, correct?

I have a MarineDepot brand refractometer and the instructions say to use distilled water to calibrate it, so that’s what I do. It’s strange that it’s so far off.. I literally check the calibration almost every time I use it and it has never needed to be adjusted beyond the initial calibration.

I will definitely do that and re-check. I have always had low alk and pH, unfortunately. I think Tropic Marin Pro just mixes that way.

I currently have a 4-stage system, but I guess that’s no enough. Is there something I can buy singly and add to it? I really don’t want to but another system considering the one I have is barely a few months old.
Yes the copper is very toxic to inverts.

Lots of info from Dr Randy Holmes-Farley on calibrating a refractometer and using DI/distilled water is a big no no.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/w...to-buy-for-refractometer.835974/#post-9037612
He has a DIY refractometer calibration solution which you could try before getting the Hanna.

Yes TM Pro is low on the alk side but should be around 7.5. I switched to a higher alk salt because I like to run around 8.8-9. Low salinity would explain some of the reason for low alk and pH also as there isn't as much buffer (carbonate) in lower salinity water.

Yes you could add DI stages. A simple two stage would work. You can change the DI on the RO unit to Cation when it needs changing and then run the output to the two stage cartridge system, with Anion in the first and Mixed bed in the last. BRS sells a nice add on. This one has resin too but not sure what type. You could always just use it and then when time to replace get the resin you need. https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/dual-deionization-canister-1.html

I would contact them and ask what type of DI resin is in the canisters. Looks like could be Anion and Mixed from the picture.
 
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Yes the copper is very toxic to inverts.

Lots of info from Dr Randy Holmes-Farley on calibrating a refractometer and using DI/distilled water is a big no no.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/w...to-buy-for-refractometer.835974/#post-9037612
He has a DIY refractometer calibration solution which you could try before getting the Hanna.

Yes TM Pro is low on the alk side but should be around 7.5. I switched to a higher alk salt because I like to run around 8.8-9. Low salinity would explain some of the reason for low alk and pH also as there isn't as much buffer (carbonate) in lower salinity water.

Yes you could add DI stages. A simple two stage would work. You can change the DI on the RO unit to Cation when it needs changing and then run the output to the two stage cartridge system, with Anion in the first and Mixed bed in the last. BRS sells a nice add on. This one has resin too but not sure what type. You could always just use it and then when time to replace get the resin you need. https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/dual-deionization-canister-1.html
Okay, I’ll give that a try. I like the convenience of the refractometer, so I’m hesistant to buy something different. Hopefully the calibration fluod solves that issue.

So, the cuprisorb and the poly filter are what you think the best options would be?

Also, thank you for the link; I will look into getting something to add on. At least that’s better than buying a whole new system!

Which salt mix do you use and why, if you don’t mind my asking?
 

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In post 323, you indicated that you never went above 2.0ppm?
That would be where your copper came from.
Things just don’t die like you have experienced unless they are infected or poisoned.
 

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So just reading what you have posted in this page 19 alone. What salinity did yoy think you were running and what is your target? It seems reasonable to me-little low.
Are you planning on starting the Vibrant as per post 365? Even after getting the results or was that before you got them?
 

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Okay, I’ll give that a try. I like the convenience of the refractometer, so I’m hesistant to buy something different. Hopefully the calibration fluod solves that issue.

So, the cuprisorb and the poly filter are what you think the best options would be?

Also, thank you for the link; I will look into getting something to add on. At least that’s better than buying a whole new system!

Which salt mix do you use and why, if you don’t mind my asking?
If you can’t find the dyi refractometer calibration solution recipe let me know.
Cuprisorb poly-filter couldn’t hurt. I’m not an expert on Cu toxicity so I don’t know if .03ppm would cause the invert problem but it certainly isn’t helping.
I use hw-marinemix reefer salt. Very clean and dkh around 9
 

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There's a time and place for stuff bruh.

You don't go to Fred's funeral and announce down the Reception Line, "Well, it's OK that Fred is gone. He was a horrible driver. I'm surprised he never ran anyone over"

Always know your audience when trying to share less than glowing comments.

Best to praise publicly and criticize privately

.
Hey I am Fred and I am ok with that
 
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In post 323, you indicated that you never went above 2.0ppm?
That would be where your copper came from.
Things just don’t die like you have experienced unless they are infected or poisoned.
No, the copper treatment was performed in my fish QT, not my display. I have since consolidated and taken down the fish QT as I will only be purchasing pre-quarantined fish from this point forward.
 
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If you can’t find the dyi refractometer calibration solution recipe let me know.
Cuprisorb poly-filter couldn’t hurt. I’m not an expert on Cu toxicity so I don’t know if .03ppm would cause the invert problem but it certainly isn’t helping.
I use hw-marinemix reefer salt. Very clean and dkh around 9
Nice, I haven't heard of that! I have been looking to switch my salt, but I love how cleanly the TM mixes. I will take a look at the hw-marinemix reefer salt, though.

I'll have to do some research on that once I get home. I will definitely let you know, though! Thank you!
 

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I mean sure you can go down the rabbit hole of perfect salinity, perfect Cu and knock down the Si a bit, but are you finding a lot of threads from others where this level of these issues is causing this much of a problem for others?

I'm not saying don't try to optimize. Im just saying I think some ppl like me mean a different thing when they use the word patience.

But by all means throw a poly pad in the sump and get some silica buster media in an extra stage on your RO. Check your magnets and anything metal around the tank for corrosion. That could explain the copper as well.
 
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