Achilles Breathing Hard in QT w/ Copper Safe

[76fishman]

Hello,

As the title states, my Achilles is breathing pretty hard in QT and I am trying to figure out some next steps.

Note: I had the Achilles in a 40G holding tank where it contracted ich/velvet for the better part of a month. Got better then worse, prompting me to set up a QT. Has eaten pellets from day 1 to now.

- QT was a brand new setup, no seeding or biological media present
- Running 2 power heads with surface agitation; no filter. Just added an air stone as I thought O2 might be the problem
- I have a 4” PVC T in there for hiding
- Tank is running ~82C
- Tank mates are a neon cleaner goby and yellow clown goby
- Ammonia badge reads 0
- Dosed ~20 mL of copper power into 20G QT tank. Only have filled to 16/17G which equates to a level of 2.1/2.2 ppm. API test kit confirms this reading.
- Achilles is eating pellets and brine
- Body looks clean with no white spots, just very rapid breathing

I am leaning towards a water change but am unsure how that will affect the whole QT process.

Please let me know what you think I should do or what is causing the problem. TIA

 

[fishguy242]

hi, only thing i can offer is hope the air stone helped .
would change 50% of water if not . best wishes.
@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

 

[bruno3047]

Heavy breathing is not unusual in a fish that is undergoing a copper treatment and is also infected with cryptocarion. There’s a good chance the crypt is in his gills, hence the heavy breathing. Copper also burns the gills. As long as he keeps eating, it’s all good. Keep him eating and he’ll be OK, assuming you know what you’re doing with the copper safe. No need to change the water if the ammonia and nitrite are zero.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Heavy breathing is not normal and signifies irritants from parasite or flukes
Treatments like prazi will reduce oxygen slightly but should not cause rapid breathing
One issue may be copper which is a little harsh on tangs and often contributes to HLLE
What is your copper level and what test kit are you using to monitor copper?
Again coppersafe is a better remedy.
Water change should be performed and retest:
Ammonia-ph-salinity- nitrate level and copper should be at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 at temperature 78-80

 

[Chrisv.]

Heavy breathing is not normal and signifies irritants from parasite or flukes
Treatments like prazi will reduce oxygen slightly but should not cause rapid breathing
One issue may be copper which is a little harsh on tangs and often contributes to HLLE
What is your copper level and what test kit are you using to monitor copper?
Again coppersafe is a better remedy.
Water change should be performed and retest:
Ammonia-ph-salinity- nitrate level and copper should be at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 at temperature 78-80

Op listed this in his original post.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hello,

As the title states, my Achilles is breathing pretty hard in QT and I am trying to figure out some next steps.

Note: I had the Achilles in a 40G holding tank where it contracted ich/velvet for the better part of a month. Got better then worse, prompting me to set up a QT. Has eaten pellets from day 1 to now.

- QT was a brand new setup, no seeding or biological media present
- Running 2 power heads with surface agitation; no filter. Just added an air stone as I thought O2 might be the problem
- I have a 4” PVC T in there for hiding
- Tank is running ~82C
- Tank mates are a neon cleaner goby and yellow clown goby
- Ammonia badge reads 0
- Dosed ~20 mL of copper power into 20G QT tank. Only have filled to 16/17G which equates to a level of 2.1/2.2 ppm. API test kit confirms this reading.
- Achilles is eating pellets and brine
- Body looks clean with no white spots, just very rapid breathing

I am leaning towards a water change but am unsure how that will affect the whole QT process.

Please let me know what you think I should do or what is causing the problem. TIA

You should check the pH of the tank to ensure it is above 8.0

I've been trying to help a person through PM with a similar/same problem and 20+ messages in, I was not able to solve it for them.

Achilles tangs are real problem fish - they have a really high metabolism, high oxygen requirements and are prone to many diseases. I personally haven't acquired one in over 20 years because of this. The guy who produces New Life Spectrum foods, Pablo Tepoot, has/had a tank with a group of them in it, amazing, but I don't know how he did that.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

You should check the pH of the tank to ensure it is above 8.0

I've been trying to help a person through PM with a similar/same problem and 20+ messages in, I was not able to solve it for them.

Achilles tangs are real problem fish - they have a really high metabolism, high oxygen requirements and are prone to many diseases. I personally haven't acquired one in over 20 years because of this. The guy who produces New Life Spectrum foods, Pablo Tepoot, has/had a tank with a group of them in it, amazing, but I don't know how he did that.

Jay

The only tang I had issues with
It was thrr we very fish that created my velvet outbreak a couple of years ago. Managed to save all the tangs but a sailfin

 

[76fishman]

Did a 5G water change last night and there is no noticeable change in the Achilles breathing. I did notice one if it’s eyes ha

Tang still eats the PE pellets and I am not seeing similar breathing in the cleaner goby and clown goby.

Copper reading is maybe 1.5 ppm? I’m not liking these API test kits, measurements are too subjective.

I am highly considering stopping the copper treatment altogether as the tang’s body looks clean and has looked clean for almost a week now.

Please let me know what you guys think.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Did a 5G water change last night and there is no noticeable change in the Achilles breathing. I did notice one if it’s eyes ha

Tang still eats the PE pellets and I am not seeing similar breathing in the cleaner goby and clown goby.

Copper reading is maybe 1.5 ppm? I’m not liking these API test kits, measurements are too subjective.

I am highly considering stopping the copper treatment altogether as the tang’s body looks clean and has looked clean for almost a week now.

Please let me know what you guys think.

API very known for false readings and have failed many reefers. Your readings are likely higher. Assure ammonia is not elevated as it will cause some burn on the eyes. Water change(s) may help eye clear on its own.
If your copper reading is from an api kit , it is likely wrong.
before any more action, it is important to know where your water sits. My suggestion is to take a good water sample to a trusted LFS that Does NOT use API kits for testing and have them check your water for Ammonia-ph-nitrate-sa;inity level and see what results they come up with.
With those results, you will know what recourse to take next. Assure airstone is running for added oxygen and air exchange.

 

[Spare time]

Might be flukes?

 

[76fishman]

API very known for false readings and have failed many reefers. Your readings are likely higher. Assure ammonia is not elevated as it will cause some burn on the eyes. Water change(s) may help eye clear on its own.
If your copper reading is from an api kit , it is likely wrong.
before any more action, it is important to know where your water sits. My suggestion is to take a good water sample to a trusted LFS that Does NOT use API kits for testing and have them check your water for Ammonia-ph-nitrate-sa;inity level and see what results they come up with.
With those results, you will know what recourse to take next. Assure airstone is running for added oxygen and air exchange.

Ok, I will try to get some tests done tomorrow and see what they say. Other than Hanna checkers is there another alternative? Air stone is still running and the power heads are providing turbulent water flow and surface agitation. Salinity is sitting around 1.026-1.027 via my refractometer.

Might be flukes?

I gave the Achilles a freshwater dip prior to adding to tank. I saw particles floating in the water but looked like sediment and not something I would have suspected to be flukes

 

[Spare time]

Ok, I will try to get some tests done tomorrow and see what they say. Other than Hanna checkers is there another alternative? Air stone is still running and the power heads are providing turbulent water flow and surface agitation. Salinity is sitting around 1.026-1.027 via my refractometer.

I gave the Achilles a freshwater dip prior to adding to tank. I saw particles floating in the water but looked like sediment and not something I would have suspected to be flukes

Freshwater dip only impacts some flukes and not all flukes can be easily seen too.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Ok, I will try to get some tests done tomorrow and see what they say. Other than Hanna checkers is there another alternative? Air stone is still running and the power heads are providing turbulent water flow and surface agitation. Salinity is sitting around 1.026-1.027 via my refractometer.

I gave the Achilles a freshwater dip prior to adding to tank. I saw particles floating in the water but looked like sediment and not something I would have suspected to be flukes

Salinity high- You want 1.024-1.025, and may be contributing the the breathing rate
Salifert is another good kit

Lastly- flukes dont float- they sink and look like sesame seeds or fish scales

 

[HudsonReefer2.0]

Did a 5G water change last night and there is no noticeable change in the Achilles breathing. I did notice one if it’s eyes ha

Tang still eats the PE pellets and I am not seeing similar breathing in the cleaner goby and clown goby.

Copper reading is maybe 1.5 ppm? I’m not liking these API test kits, measurements are too subjective.

I am highly considering stopping the copper treatment altogether as the tang’s body looks clean and has looked clean for almost a week now.

Please let me know what you guys think.

Hanna make a great copper kit.

 

[bruno3047]

Did a 5G water change last night and there is no noticeable change in the Achilles breathing. I did notice one if it’s eyes ha

Tang still eats the PE pellets and I am not seeing similar breathing in the cleaner goby and clown goby.

Copper reading is maybe 1.5 ppm? I’m not liking these API test kits, measurements are too subjective.

I am highly considering stopping the copper treatment altogether as the tang’s body looks clean and has looked clean for almost a week now.

Please let me know what you guys think.

Did a 5G water change last night and there is no noticeable change in the Achilles breathing. I did notice one if it’s eyes ha

Tang still eats the PE pellets and I am not seeing similar breathing in the cleaner goby and clown goby.

Copper reading is maybe 1.5 ppm? I’m not liking these API test kits, measurements are too subjective.

I am highly considering stopping the copper treatment altogether as the tang’s body looks clean and has looked clean for almost a week now.

Please let me know what you guys think.

I would follow whatever directions are given on the bottle of copper safe as far as duration of treatment.

 

[Spare time]

Salinity high- You want 1.024-1.025, and may be contributing the the breathing rate
Salifert is another good kit

Lastly- flukes dont float- they sink and look like sesame seeds or fish scales

The ocean is often at 1.026/1.027. That wouldn't do anything at all

 

[vetteguy53081]

The ocean is often at 1.026/1.027. That wouldn't do anything at all

Average ocean salinity is 35ppt which is industry standard and many fish especially captive bred cannot tolerate higher range. This is a closed environment and not ocean. Saltwater fish better tolerate lower salinity levels than higher salinity levels. which can lead to sceptic shock - Reason we acclimate our livestock.

 

[bruno3047]

Don’t end the copper treatment prematurely just because you don’t see any spots. There are phases of the disease where you won’t see any spots, but they’re either in the fish below the skin surface, the fish’s gills, or free-floating in the aquarium. Following the instructions is the safest bet.

 

[Spare time]

Average ocean salinity is 35ppt which is industry standard and many fish especially captive bred cannot tolerate higher range. This is a closed environment and not ocean. Saltwater fish better tolerate lower salinity levels than higher salinity levels. which can lead to sceptic shock - Reason we acclimate our livestock.

The red sea is above 35ppt and is one of the most vibrant reefs in the world so keep that in mind.

Captive bred fish can tolerate higher than 35ppt. They are not that genetically distinct from wild populations to where they could not tolerate the conditions their behavior and physiology has been selected to tolerate. Captive fish can tolerate a wide range of salinity. Dripping is to not "shock" them with rapid changes, not because they can't tolerate changes. I'm not going to detail this thread so I'll stop here haha

 

[bruno3047]

Did a 5G water change last night and there is no noticeable change in the Achilles breathing. I did notice one if it’s eyes ha

Tang still eats the PE pellets and I am not seeing similar breathing in the cleaner goby and clown goby.

Copper reading is maybe 1.5 ppm? I’m not liking these API test kits, measurements are too subjective.

I am highly considering stopping the copper treatment altogether as the tang’s body looks clean and has looked clean for almost a week now.

Please let me know what you guys think.

Looks like his right eye is clouding up. That’s not good. Indications of secondary bacterial infection. If it develops into a case of pop eye it’s going to require special treatment. But deal with the ich first.