Adding 'Beneficial' Bacteria

[ReefGeezer]

This is very informative - thank a bunch folks. Learned something today :) Thanks. Doesn't BRSTV endorse such practice, again perhaps given that they do sell such products, it can be part of the entire 'conspiracy'.

Question then becomes what happens to the system if one doses these products - does it cause algae bloom or other problems - has there been a study on such before I wonder?

BRS is great at marketing. That doesn't mean these products don't have a place in the hobby. It is a buyer beware kind of thing though. These products can cause problems. Used incorrectly, they can drive down nutrient levels and set the stage for Dinos, and they can cause bacterial blooms that rob the system of oxygen and cause a slime to grow.

 

[SunnyX]

to the next bottle bac seller:


please include four strains, label it as diversity boosting/ you will make hand over fist money.



*you know what I'd rather add to my reef vs a lifetime free supply of anyone's bottle bac?

an ounce of reef water from fiji. unfiltered, all rafts in place, I'd pay $20 for a shot of that if was legit from fiji into my pico reef. now that's diversity, one ounce of reef water. in fact get me an ounce from fiji, seychelles, and cayman east end I'd pay $24.99 for a combined mix of that as a booster. that's real diversity.


*team

every frag you add brings in the suited strains to your tank

bottle bac is a huge gimmick for ongoing support, though it sure does quick cycle nicely/ it is not useless.

I think that you’re on to something here. One thing that I have noticed over the years is that every single local aquarium that I have given water, to aid in start up, has thrived and avoided many of the issues that plague new setups.

I do dose bacteria, and cycle between MB7 and Zeobak, but my systems have always been stable. Quite a bit of that has to do with my own maintenance and maniacal husbandry, but there is something to be said about quality water directly from the ocean or an established source.

The water currently in use in my systems has been going now for about 25 years, through various setups, from large to small. Even when I took a multi year hiatus from the hobby due to illness, I kept some rock and water going in the hopes of coming back one day.

In the beginning I did experience all manner of algae and issues, but since then every new setup that had rock and water transferred avoided many issues and kept on running as if it was one large chain of a continuous system. Back then, I ordered rock directly from Fiji and it was incredible stuff. Every couple years when I would transfer systems, a couple new pieces of Fiji rock were added to give the system a shot in the arm.

The diversity further increased when I launched Pro Corals and started importing corals from all over. The small rocks attached on corals from Australia were incredible. The PC Superman Acro came in on one of those Aussie shipments.

One thing that I have been playing around with is Zeolites. I shake them off daily via a Zeoreactor and the response of the corals has been incredible. My corals now are growing at a faster pace than I have ever experienced. Everything from SPS, LPS to Zoas is growing at an incredibly well. Its to the point that when my system hits the one year mark this spring, people may doubt the images of growth.

Concerning the disturbing trend of starting fallow systems, I believe that bottled bacteria has its place and will aid in startup, but is not a substitute for the real thing. 9/10 times when someone approaches me with a system issue, provided that all parameters are in check, we solve it by simply adding some real live rock. Now, it’s getting tougher to obtain live rock from the ocean, and I don’t even know if KP Aquatics is still shipping rock, so we need to find some new sources. Starting up a barren system to “avoid pests” is completely misguided and causes so much needless suffering and loss of live stock.

When you get down to the basics, and allow nature to take its course, success is sure to follow. Trust the process and trust in nature.

Now, if anyone would like some water, I’ll be selling it for $19.99! :p

-Sonny

 

[brandon429]

Well said

I don’t know anything about zeolite but that sure was a staple in the hobby late 90s through 2000s I’m reading up on that to refresh. Isn’t zeolite used for ammonia binding?

 

[LovinlifeinGuam]

I think that you’re on to something here. One thing that I have noticed over the years is that every single local aquarium that I have given water, to aid in start up, has thrived and avoided many of the issues that plague new setups.

I do dose bacteria, and cycle between MB7 and Zeobak, but my systems have always been stable. Quite a bit of that has to do with my own maintenance and maniacal husbandry, but there is something to be said about quality water directly from the ocean or an established source.

The water currently in use in my systems has been going now for about 25 years, through various setups, from large to small. Even when I took a multi year hiatus from the hobby due to illness, I kept some rock and water going in the hopes of coming back one day.

In the beginning I did experience all manner of algae and issues, but since then every new setup that had rock and water transferred avoided many issues and kept on running as if it was one large chain of a continuous system. Back then, I ordered rock directly from Fiji and it was incredible stuff. Every couple years when I would transfer systems, a couple new pieces of Fiji rock were added to give the system a shot in the arm.

The diversity further increased when I launched Pro Corals and started importing corals from all over. The small rocks attached on corals from Australia were incredible. The PC Superman Acro came in on one of those Aussie shipments.

One thing that I have been playing around with is Zeolites. I shake them off daily via a Zeoreactor and the response of the corals has been incredible. My corals now are growing at a faster pace than I have ever experienced. Everything from SPS, LPS to Zoas is growing at an incredibly well. Its to the point that when my system hits the one year mark this spring, people may doubt the images of growth.

Concerning the disturbing trend of starting fallow systems, I believe that bottled bacteria has its place and will aid in startup, but is not a substitute for the real thing. 9/10 times when someone approaches me with a system issue, provided that all parameters are in check, we solve it by simply adding some real live rock. Now, it’s getting tougher to obtain live rock from the ocean, and I don’t even know if KP Aquatics is still shipping rock, so we need to find some new sources. Starting up a barren system to “avoid pests” is completely misguided and causes so much needless suffering and loss of live stock.

When you get down to the basics, and allow nature to take its course, success is sure to follow. Trust the process and trust in nature.

Now, if anyone would like some water, I’ll be selling it for $19.99! :p

-Sonny

Same offer i gave @brandon429 I'll give you. A bottle of water filled up from a pristine Thai island reef. I'm seriously not kidding when I say I'll sell it to you. Going this month to at least one of the islands...

 

[SunnyX]

Well said

I don’t know anything about zeolite but that sure was a staple in the hobby late 90s through 2000s I’m reading up on that to refresh. Isn’t zeolite used for ammonia binding?

Correct. I don’t know if it’s really done much to keep my system clean, as I have always down well in that regard. I run about half the recommended amount of zeolites. My main reason for using the zeolites is the daily release of bacteria that it provides. On a daily basis, I will shake the zeolites and realize a cloud of bacteria so thick that it will obscure the water by at least 40%. SPS corals will extend feeding tentacles and the overall response has been positive. Most certainly, the corals are growing faster and looking more colorful and robust.

When carbon dosing, you walk a fine line between thriving and starving of corals. Getting the balance just right can be tough. With the aid of the bacteria, I am accomplishing two things: the bacteria consume nutrients, and once released into the system that same bacteria will feed the corals.

In combination with the Coral Snow, I have avoided any reoccurrence of cyano slime up to now, which is quite a feat for me as I have always had it somewhere in my systems. The experimenting never ends and I love this hobby.

-Sonny

 

[brandon429]

Your bac dosing thread has all happy entrants that’s a heck of a start for sure

 

[brandon429]

every coral publication in existence says sps and corals and anemones and the whole ocean feeds directly or indirectly from suspended bacterial rafts/plankton salad that comes with it. the stuff you're shaking; legit feed. nice feeding response noted.

that's also interestingly how we think cross-seeding of cycling bacteria via water/ tank to tank occurs

not by bacteria swimming in the water but by inevitable attachment of filter bacteria from a living system to any substrate in the tank; even suspended micro rafts.

when that water is transferred, it's rafts go with it. the nature of high shear water gliding onto reef surfaces always keeps rafts in production. sloughing, stacking of surfaces/all very reefy activity is always transmitting cycling bacteria to new areas


but we were told reef water doesn't have the bacteria...only the surfaces-



the old adage about reef tank water not having viable bacteria was really kicked into gear when Dr. Tim said the same thing in his cycling video. I'm sure technically, cycle bacteria aren't releasing and free-swimming in the water

but the macro truth is rafting always happens with reefing

and I have a thread where we cycled a completely dry sand dry rock 200 gallon reef system in 20 days using only water from an old tank. cycled to the degree it took all of Tuffloud's 15 year bioload from an old tank, into the test-cycled one. a full tank's bioload carried in 20 days, no feed, no dosing of bac, no use of living substrate like rock or sand.
(we verified oxidation on salifert ammonia with a rise/drop in test ammonia dosed)

reef water from his running reef was chock full of substrate

see that's what they won't tell us when trying to sell us bottle bac via the angles of cycle stalling and water sterility

the way you are using it Sunny is respectable, well done. Using it to create castable food webs is really good and innovative, you're not trying to address ammonia control issues with it.

an aquarist can't set up an all dry reef, add only new/inert water, and have it self-ready by day 20

only a form of boosting can accomplish that, and it came from the water. We think a truly unassisted marine cycle, the rarest of all marine cycles I've only seen once (page 98, MSteven1, Dr. Reef's bottle bac thread) takes about 4 months or so to set in. if something is ready by day 20, a notable source of inoculation and feed provided that.

macna needs an update video to match the charted results. I truly did not think there was one single use for bottled bac after the cycle, after battling it from eight different weak sales approaches in my opinion. You sure have shown a valid reason to work with it electively. I fully believe that adding extra loading of bac would increase scums, adherents and aggregates on catch surfaces over time and that those sticky nets can catch goodies for store+ release.