Adding Probiotic Bacteria...Do They Actually Work?

[livinlifeinBKK]

I love the idea of dosing probiotic bacteria personally but have doubt that's it's very beneficial honestly. I've used Tropic Marin Nitribiotic in the past and was thinking about buying more but why? I e looked into the research and although probiotics can be greatly beneficial in aquaculture, those conditions are far different than our aquariums. Also the fish generally has to directly eat food soaked in or somehow containing live bacteria in high enough concentrations to colonize the fish's gut....I just have my doubts it helps fish or coral health much if any but would love to heat the opinions of others!

 

[Gumbies R Us]

Good question and I am curious as well!!

 

[JamesTh]

I also have dosed TM nitribiotic in the past, I stopped simply because I switched to TM Syn-biotic salt, which contains both nitribiotic, and the carbon dosing element ‘reef-actif’. Like the OP, I like the idea of dosing probiotic bacteria.

I also dose other bacteria such as fauna Marin bacto-therapy, and also their bacto-blend. Once the bottles are empty I probably won’t replace them.

I’m not really sure what I expected by dosing them, as I’m no marine biologist. I do notice that my water is crystal clear for a while after dosing. I dose all of the different probiotic bacteria, after I have done my weekly maintenance checks. The other thing I’ve noticed, is that I’ve had no ugly stage - my tank is now 6 months old. Can this be attributed to dosing probiotic bacteria? No idea.

I’ll probably stick with using the TM Syn-biotic salt for the foreseeable future though. I can’t see it doing any harm.

 

[jda]

I am not using it unless Jamie Lee Curtis endorses it.

In all honesty, not sure what it could add if you have fish gut bacteria entering the tank with every dump.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I also have dosed TM nitribiotic in the past, I stopped simply because I switched to TM Syn-biotic salt, which contains both nitribiotic, and the carbon dosing element ‘reef-actif’. Like the OP, I like the idea of dosing probiotic bacteria.

I also dose other bacteria such as fauna Marin bacto-therapy, and also their bacto-blend. Once the bottles are empty I probably won’t replace them.

I’m not really sure what I expected by dosing them, as I’m no marine biologist. I do notice that my water is crystal clear for a while after dosing. I dose all of the different probiotic bacteria, after I have done my weekly maintenance checks. The other thing I’ve noticed, is that I’ve had no ugly stage - my tank is now 6 months old. Can this be attributed to dosing probiotic bacteria? No idea.

I’ll probably stick with using the TM Syn-biotic salt for the foreseeable future though. I can’t see it doing any harm.

Probiotic Bacteria do have a lot of science backing them which is why I like the idea of their use (also no real downsides of probiotics as long as you have some detectable nitrate and phosphate). The only thing with is that the vast majority of studies focus on aquaculture operations and not aquariums. There are a few ornamental aquaculture studies on clownfish but dosing during the larval stage and early stages of life are different from dosing to a mature tank.
I'd use a salt mix that incorporates probiotics like the one you use or AF Probiotic Reef Salt but unless you use it continuously I doubt any benefits would be visible so just trying it for a month probably wouldn't do much. Just wish the price of those salts wasn't significantly higher here than others.
I probably won't buy another $25 bottle of Nitribiotic for the reasons I listed but I am interested in PNS Probio since the bacteria it contains is vastly different from other probiotic bacteria. It's primarily for reducing mulm and detritus buildup from my understanding but it's not available here yet.

 

[JamesTh]

I intend to keep with the TM syn-biotic salt at least a year, and see how it goes I found a stockist here in the UK that offers it at a reasonable price - approx 10% higher price than TM pro-reef salt, so I’m happy!

I wish that manufacturers of probiotic bacteria would list the bacteria that they have in their product, much like an Ingredients list. Would be so useful I think, but I can’t see it happening though.

I’ve also tried the PNS pro-bio again I found it difficult to find an outcome of using it. I did notice that both the TM nitribiotic and the pro-bio both contain ‘purple’ bacteria though. Are they the same bacteria? I’m not sure, really.

I notice that you can send off a water sample and you can find out what kind of bacteria you have in your tank. But it doesn’t really say much other than, your tank contains bacteria a,b, and c. So I’ve yet to understand really how useful something like this type of bacteria test actually is.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I intend to keep with the TM syn-biotic salt at least a year, and see how it goes I found a stockist here in the UK that offers it at a reasonable price - approx 10% higher price than TM pro-reef salt, so I’m happy!

I wish that manufacturers of probiotic bacteria would list the bacteria that they have in their product, much like an Ingredients list. Would be so useful I think, but I can’t see it happening though.

I’ve also tried the PNS pro-bio again I found it difficult to find an outcome of using it. I did notice that both the TM nitribiotic and the pro-bio both contain ‘purple’ bacteria though. Are they the same bacteria? I’m not sure, really.

I notice that you can send off a water sample and you can find out what kind of bacteria you have in your tank. But it doesn’t really say much other than, your tank contains bacteria a,b, and c. So I’ve yet to understand really how useful something like this type of bacteria test actually is.

The Nitribiotic does list the bacteria in it...i don't think the purple bacteria are PNS bacteria though so not the same. I couldn't get a definite answer when I asked so I'm going to assume probably not.

 

[jda]

They never likely will and you do not want them to. If they listed out the actual bacteria, then not only would less people buy them, then the people who did buy the products would not have the mystery of wondering if they actually work. If there ended up being some probiotic bacteria from a venus fly trap gut in there, then the gig is up.

This is like when aminos were hot... one company listed out the few aminos that were in their product. The got crushed by the smart folks who know that corals are not deficient in any of these and also likely cannot metabolize the building blocks in them very well - so maybe helpful to other things in the tank, but not corals as promised. Then, people who used AcroPower were extolling the virtues without knowing what is in there like it was sliced bread or space travel.

I don't want illegal things being sold in this hobby such as antibiotics that need a Rx, algaecides inconsistent with EPA regulations, etc... but anybody selling a product that is not covered by laws and stuff is best not to tell you what is in it. The truth is that nearly none of these work, so just let peoples imaginations go wild, right?

 

[JamesTh]

They never likely will and you do not want them to. If they listed out the actual bacteria, then not only would less people buy them, then the people who did buy the products would not have the mystery of wondering if they actually work. If there ended up being some probiotic bacteria from a venus fly trap gut in there, then the gig is up.

This is like when aminos were hot... one company listed out the few aminos that were in their product. The got crushed by the smart folks who know that corals are not deficient in any of these and also likely cannot metabolize the building blocks in them very well - so maybe helpful to other things in the tank, but not corals as promised. Then, people who used AcroPower were extolling the virtues without knowing what is in there like it was sliced bread or space travel.

I don't want illegal things being sold in this hobby such as antibiotics that need a Rx, algaecides inconsistent with EPA regulations, etc... but anybody selling a product that is not covered by laws and stuff is best not to tell you what is in it. The truth is that nearly none of these work, so just let peoples imaginations go wild, right?

Actually I really would want them to list them out like an ingredients list. That way I can make more of an informed decision, and I would better know what to look out for re: improvements in my tank. By not showing them, then yes they could indeed be snake oil, as you suggest. But it’s not going to stop me from trying these products, at the very least.

I have no axe to grind, one way or another regarding bacteria. I genuinely know so little about it, that I can’t make an informed decision. But the only thing we can do as hobbyists, is to try these products, and watch to see if they seem to have any kind of effect on our daily reefing adventures. From a bigger picture perspective, only time will tell if they’re actually going to be useful or not.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

They never likely will and you do not want them to. If they listed out the actual bacteria, then not only would less people buy them, then the people who did buy the products would not have the mystery of wondering if they actually work. If there ended up being some probiotic bacteria from a venus fly trap gut in there, then the gig is up.

This is like when aminos were hot... one company listed out the few aminos that were in their product. The got crushed by the smart folks who know that corals are not deficient in any of these and also likely cannot metabolize the building blocks in them very well - so maybe helpful to other things in the tank, but not corals as promised. Then, people who used AcroPower were extolling the virtues without knowing what is in there like it was sliced bread or space travel.

I don't want illegal things being sold in this hobby such as antibiotics that need a Rx, algaecides inconsistent with EPA regulations, etc... but anybody selling a product that is not covered by laws and stuff is best not to tell you what is in it. The truth is that nearly none of these work, so just let peoples imaginations go wild, right?

If they were backed by research why would people stop buying them after knowing what bacteria were in the product? That would actually make more people want to buy them. There are a few products that list the bacteria in them and I like that...as for whether they work or not, part of that depends on if you're expectations are realistic or not. Most people don't have realistic expectations but telling them what's in the product and showing the studies backing their effectiveness would actually make people believe they were doing more in some cases. The primary reason they don't list them is because if you know what's in each brand then people will just go for the cheapest option containing X bacteria.

 

[jda]

If they were backed by independent research and proven to work, then great. However, that is not likely to ever happen. The research would likely prove that it was not necessary at best and snake oil at worst... so they can just make up some stuff about what they put in a bottle and people will buy it and wonder.

You could say that you have pelagibacter (or pick one) in a supplement and that it help with the saltwater holobiont. This is true. Then, somebody smart would point out that every tank has those anyway.

Besides, why would anybody list anything for even the slightest possible retort if people are going to buy them anyway?

I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but Jay this the best in this other post:

None of these aquarium companies have real labs - they just skim the literature for ideas.

Edit: since Aquarium Systems and Marineland closed their small labs.