Advice on nitrates

PhishFriends

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I've run my tank for nearly a year now, and no matter what I've done I've never been able to keep nitrates. I'm currently feeding my fish 3 times a day both pellets and frozen (more than they eat) and spot feeding reef chili and broadcast AB+.. and yet still my nitrates are at .1 ( using side view from Salifert test). I have no skimmer, I shut my fuge light off days ago, and always run it only a few hours.
I'm wondering if its the large amount of rock I have. I only have 2 clowns, a starry blenny and cleaner shrimp to feed. I'm losing a stylopora because of this.
I know of sodium nitrate dosing, but figured more as a last resort.
Lastly. The more I feed the more this brown covers my rock. I think it's cyano. When I'm feeding normal it's very thin, it has thickened up now. It's more brown than red, brushes off very easily (but makes a mess and my corals get mad) and only covers the brightest spots in the tank. I've never seen it develop into what I know red slime to look like.

PXL_20221129_132100813.jpg PXL_20221129_132840107.jpg
 
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PhishFriends

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Also I change the water bi weekly. About 10% (5g in the reefer 200xl). I rinse the stock filter it came with and stick it back in.
I have some more mature rock than the rest and that does not develop the weird brown cyano
 
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Pics of non stringy, never goes away or grows much brown alage
 

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PhishFriends

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I'd dose some form of N, either ammonia, sodium or calcium nitrate, or amino acids.

Have you monitored phosphate?
Ya, always get the closest thing to zero. Salifert again. I've only a few times ever seen the slightest hue of color in the sample.
I use redsea AB+, that's aminos.
Reason I've been hesitant to start dosing, is that I don't want to have to dose nitrates forever.. will it in time find stability of it's own?
 

ReefGeezer

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I really like AB+ and use it also. However, AB+ has a very high organic carbon content. While it does contribute nitrogen, it may also encourage bacteria that bind the resulting nitrate. The result is no rise in inorganic nitrate and a high organic load in a system that has little capacity to remove it.

Personally, I would stop the AB+. Like @Randy Holmes-Farley said, dosing nitrate directly might be preferable. A skimmer (or addition of a many corals) to reduce the organic load could be of value also.

I use many Salifert kits, but the phosphate kit isn't very useful for most reef tanks. Its resolution just isn't high enough. I use a Hanna ULR. It will read over .1 ppm of phosphate when my Salifert kit shows roughly 0.
 
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PhishFriends

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(or addition of a many corals) to reduce the organic load could be of value also.
Are you talking about specific corals, or just saying corals are a great filter?
I have a dozen or so frags I'm feeding. I've been resistant to getting a protein skimmer because I wanted to use my sump at a fuge, and was told with a 50g I could get away without one. Am I just making my life more difficult?
I ordered sodium nitrate. In reading more I'm realizing that I will probably just cause my cyano to thrive by feeding the way I am.
Lastly, should I continue with regular water changes?
 

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You can dose nitrates till you start to maintain a steady level of around 5-10ppm. If it goes up or down, adjust the dose.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Ya, always get the closest thing to zero. Salifert again. I've only a few times ever seen the slightest hue of color in the sample.
I use redsea AB+, that's aminos.
Reason I've been hesitant to start dosing, is that I don't want to have to dose nitrates forever.. will it in time find stability of it's own?

Dosing nitrate now has no real bearing on the need in the future. It's not an addictive drug. lol
 
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PhishFriends

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Dosing nitrate now has no real bearing on the need in the future. It's not an addictive drug. lol
Hahaha I am 100% treating it that way. I've tried the 'holistic' approach probably for that reason. I studied chemistry and marine bio, and still my hippy ways insert themselves when not needed.
 

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I am trying to understand your setup. What type of lighting are you running and do you monitor your pH? If your test kit is correct, and that’s something to look at, it seems odd that you have no nitrates with your setup.
 
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PhishFriends

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I am trying to understand your setup. What type of lighting are you running and do you monitor your pH? If your test kit is correct, and that’s something to look at, it seems odd that you have no nitrates with your setup.
Xr-15 set at 85% and my UV is at 50% cause some corals got mad when it was up at 100%. pH is steady at 8.15.
I have an old API test kit I'll dig out to make sure. Definitely buying a Hanna Phos tester.
I run a small grow light in my fuge. Some 100w pink light that grows algae just fine.
I also thought it was strange. I've always been cautious about feeding, but not I'm dumping the stuff in and nothings budging. That's why I thought maybe the large amount of rock I have is harboring so much nitrifying bacteria that I won't be able to touch it. It sounds more ridiculous writing it than just thinking it.
 

ReefGeezer

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Are you talking about specific corals, or just saying corals are a great filter?
I have a dozen or so frags I'm feeding. I've been resistant to getting a protein skimmer because I wanted to use my sump at a fuge, and was told with a 50g I could get away without one. Am I just making my life more difficult?
I ordered sodium nitrate. In reading more I'm realizing that I will probably just cause my cyano to thrive by feeding the way I am.
Lastly, should I continue with regular water changes?
Most corals don't really need "Feeding". Adequate light, and some dissolved or particulate organic carbon is about all they need. Most will get their N&P from the organic carbon, but a little available N&P in the water column helps also. When feeding them, you may just be increasing the organic load without really benefitting them. I like to feed the fish and let their wastes feed the corals and other organisms in the food web.

Some rapidly growing corals use organic carbon and even the bacteria it promotes. These are usually soft corals like Toadstools, Finger Leathers, & Zoas. Clams & Scallops also do a good job. I term these a "Nutrient Users". These are more likely to help reduce organic levels than slower growing hard corals.

I think that a skimmer makes life easier until these above nutrient users start to do the job. Don't go overboard though. A properly sized, moderate quality, skimmer is sufficient. Too much skimmer will limit organics too much and starve the corals.
I run a small grow light in my fuge. Some 100w pink light that grows algae just fine.
The algae you are growing in the sump is using nitrogen and phosphate also. It might not be needed right now.
 

92Miata

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I've run my tank for nearly a year now, and no matter what I've done I've never been able to keep nitrates. I'm currently feeding my fish 3 times a day both pellets and frozen (more than they eat) and spot feeding reef chili and broadcast AB+.. and yet still my nitrates are at .
Frozen: Good
Pellets: High phosphate
Reef Chili: High phosphate
AB+: High phosphate and carbon

Stop feeding coral foods. Nitrate, phosphate, and carbon consumption are all tied together. One of the best ways to drive nitrates down is to dose phosphate and carbon. In your situation - you're nitrogen limited - and high phosphate foods will make it harder to get out of this hole.

The only people who really need coral foods are coral farmers who are keeping fishless systems.

I know of sodium nitrate dosing, but figured more as a last resort.
Why?

Give your tank what it needs.
 

shootingstar_reef

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Food grade sodium nitrate from Amazon.
is this usable to the organisms? it's what our test kits read, but is that relevant to the organisms? wouldn't adding extra food (or a supplement like AB+ or coral snow or something) be a 'better' solution to low nitrates?
 
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CMO

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All my systems run at or near zero without dosing (varying factors but to your point, yes a high proportion of rock can result in this). IMO that is a great place to be which gives you a nice starting point to achieve your goals with dosing. Dosing NO3 and PO4 to achieve a 100:1 ratio with a target of 5ppm NO3 to .05ppm PO4 has worked extremely well with nearly every type of coral IME.
 
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