After first Aquarium, can't keep one healthy?!?

[Lorgalis]

I got in to this hobby in 2017.

I started with a Red Sea Reefer 450 and added a Red Sea Reefer 525 in 2019.

The 450 went great at first, then got Dino's in 2019 and crashed hard, wiping everything out (I was pretty new to the hobby and didn't know what to do or what dino's were). The 525 has been running healthy since it's startup and continues to do so.

Since then, I just can't start a new tank successfully and I just don't know why. I purged the 450 and let it sit fallow for over 6 months. I've tried rebooting it 4 or 5 times over these years but it just turns in to an algae infested disaster regardless of how I try to start it up (I have tried live rock setups, dry rock with seeding setups (Dr. Tim's aquatics cycling, live rock cycling, etc). You name it, I have tried it and every time this tank just hits the ugly stage, gets worse and never recovers.

I have a little IM 35 Gallon that has the same problem (never had dino's though). Every time I purge and clean it and try to reboot, it ends up a disaster of algae, slime and ugliness and never recovers.

The reboots always seem to hit 0 nitrates and phosphates and I can't bring them up even with dosing.

I'm just at a loss. I don't know what I am doing wrong here or how to change the pattern. The 525 continues to putt along nicely (corals, livestock, etc) and the other 2 tanks just end up a mess within a month or 2 after cycling is complete with no nitrates or phosphates.

Tanks have Skimmers, UV, Fleece filters. I use an Ice Cap 5 stage filter system for RO water and only use RO in the tanks and ATO's (change membrane and filters whenever required to keep TDS at 0), I have tried different salt mixes (I doubt salt is causing the issue, currently using tropic marin), 2 use Red Sea lights and the 35 gal uses AI.

I have tried not running UV, filters and skimmers in the tanks as well, but it's made no difference

Any help or advice out there? I'm just at a loss and pretty close to just packing it in due to frustration.

 

[Peace River]

Did you reuse rock, equipment, or anything else in the troubled tanks?

@ReefSquad

 

[Tahoe61]

No Nitrates or Phosphates? Did you try to correct that? How did you cycle the systems?

 

[Lorgalis]

Did you reuse rock, equipment, or anything else in the troubled tanks?

@ReefSquad

Nothing was reused. I started from scratch each time. New rock, new sand, new hardware (return pumps, etc) except for lights.

 

[Lorgalis]

No Nitrates or Phosphates? Did you try to correct that? How did you cycle the systems?

I have tried multiple ways of cycling over the last 3 years:

1. Using live rock and waiting out the process over a few months (this is how I first cycled the 450 and the 525)
2. Accelerated start with Marco rock using Dr. Tims one time and Brightwell Aquatics a different time.
3. Seeded rock from a healthy tank
4. With and without 'live' sand

I tried correcting the nitrates and phosphates using a few methods:
1. Overfeeding as suggested in many places
2. Dosing nitrate and phosphate using Brightwell products
3. Dosing nitrate and phosphate using Aquaforest products
4. Disabling the use of: socks, fleece, skimmers, UV, etc

Regardless, I'll get an initial showing of nitrate and phosphate, but it'll be 0 by the following day. I have used multiple different test kits (Red Sea, Salifert, Hanna) and replaced the kits and reagents to confirm the results weren't coming from a bad test kit. Also, the kits all test fine for samples from my healthy 525 tank.

It's truly baffling. My LFS that I have been shopping at for 8 years is at a loss as well. They are flat out of suggestions.

 

[Tahoe61]

Wow, it defies logic.

If it were a chemistry issue it would show up on an ICP. Have you run an ICP of the successful tank and one of the failed tanks?

You are using the same salt right? What about placement of tanks? Candles, air fresheners?

 

[BryanM]

Water source? RODI? Tested? Chlorine/chloramines in the water?

Something fatally bad with source water might explain all of the issues

 

[Liquid361]

My guess? Get your water source tested by sending off a sample.

 

[Lorgalis]

The healthy tank uses the same RODI water as the ones that can't catch a break. If it was the water source, all tanks should be crashing, not just the 450 and the small one the way I see it.

 

[vlangel]

The problem is nuisance algae from what I am reading. If that is so, then maybe try resetting more like a fish only tank. Once the tank is cycled you can add fish, and cuc but none of these animals need light. Algae, even nuisance algae does need light so greatly limit the time the light is on or use only ambient room light. This is only until you can get a good biofilter going full of biolife. Then slowly add low light coral and slowly lengthen the light cycle. If you start to get too much algae, cut the light cycle back. (Back in the 70s and 80s, this was the main way we controlled algae). Once your biolife is well established then add more coral and a more normal photophase period. It's gonna be slow progress before it's a reef running like your current reef but it should get there.

 

[Lorgalis]

The problem is nuisance algae from what I am reading. If that is so, then maybe try resetting more like a fish only tank. Once the tank is cycled you can add fish, and cuc but none of these animals need light. Algae, even nuisance algae does need light so greatly limit the time the light is on or use only ambient room light. This is only until you can get a good biofilter going full of biolife. Then slowly add low light coral and slowly lengthen the light cycle. If you start to get too much algae, cut the light cycle back. (Back in the 70s and 80s, this was the main way we controlled algae). Once your biolife is well established then add more coral and a more normal photophase period. It's gonna be slow progress before it's a reef running like your current reef but it should get there.

That's excellent advice. Thank you.

 

[vlangel]

That's excellent advice. Thank you.

I hope that helps. If you restart, let me know how it turns out.

I used to work at a lfs back in the 90s and although dinos wasn't a problem back then, algae was. Limiting light was always one of our first actions. After that we limited nutrients and just fed enough that the fish consumed most of it in 2 minutes.
Another thing you can do is add ornamental macroalgae, (pretty algae) to outcompete the nuisance algae. Not everyone likes the looks of a display with macroalgae but it's my first choice for my tank. All the red you see in my tank are ornamental macros. The challenge with macros is keeping them where you want them. They always need pruned or they themselves become a nuisance. Some are easier than others however so you can be discerning.