Air to air, or air to liquid intercooler/heat exchanger for skimmer line ran outside?

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Ok, another of my beat to death topic, with a twist, questions. Yes, for a few thousand dollars one can install an erv/hrv system. I know this. However, when in somewhat extreme climates, or for those not wanting to go through the hassle, or unable to install a ventilation system (like in an condo), is there a smaller scale option? From my gear head days, I’m thinking of an intercooler for a turbo/supercharger. Has anyone diy’d a device to cool/heat the air in your skimmer line that was ran outside? Summers here get to 120 degrees occasionally, and over 110 degrees pretty much everyday through the summer. I would think it would be pretty simple to fab an air to air radiator of sorts on the cheap. Of course, a liquid to air, stainless or titanium version mounted in the sump would be much smaller and much more efficient, but also much more expensive. Just thinking out of the box here. It should be a zero maintenance device. Even a keg chiller, tube setup might work I’m thinking. I think you can get a 120’ stainless keg chiller coil for around $150. My fab days are over, so it’s not something I can tackle anymore.Thoughts?

 

[HuduVudu]

Ok, another of my beat to death topic, with a twist, questions. Yes, for a few thousand dollars one can install an erv/hrv system. I know this. However, when in somewhat extreme climates, or for those not wanting to go through the hassle, or unable to install a ventilation system (like in an condo), is there a smaller scale option? From my gear head days, I’m thinking of an intercooler for a turbo/supercharger. Has anyone diy’d a device to cool/heat the air in your skimmer line that was ran outside? Summers here get to 120 degrees occasionally, and over 110 degrees pretty much everyday through the summer. I would think it would be pretty simple to fab an air to air radiator of sorts on the cheap. Of course, a liquid to air, stainless or titanium version mounted in the sump would be much smaller and much more efficient, but also much more expensive. Just thinking out of the box here. It should be a zero maintenance device. Even a keg chiller, tube setup might work I’m thinking. I think you can get a 120’ stainless keg chiller coil for around $150. My fab days are over, so it’s not something I can tackle anymore.Thoughts?

You can buy a Panasonic ERV for $400. If you really want to DIY you can run the ducts through a window, like a mobile AC.

ERVs aren't complicated you can look at my build thread and see my install.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

You can buy a Panasonic ERV for $400. If you really want to DIY you can run the ducts through a window, like a mobile AC.

ERVs aren't complicated you can look at my build thread and see my install.

Wich one?

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

You can buy a Panasonic ERV for $400. If you really want to DIY you can run the ducts through a window, like a mobile AC.

ERVs aren't complicated you can look at my build thread and see my install.

I’m limited in my capabilities as of late (I’ve lost most my functional vision and have motor control issues) so it’s not something I can do. It’s sad coming from a guy who has significantly modified every car, boat, motorcycle, and house I’ve ever owned. Plus, in talking with different manufacturers, an hrv is recommended in my area, and they did caution that my ac would run a lot more in the summer heat. I guess they are more efficient at keeping cold air out vs hot. They also recommended a stand alone system, not tied into my ac ducting. I would also need a large unit for the size of the house. I’ll read your thread though, out of curiosity and for ideas.

 

[Sean Clark]

I love heat exchangers but for the cost of implementing something like this you could justify a lot of co2 scrubbing media and just pull the already cooler air from inside the house. If you are set on a heat exchange system then setup some thermoelectric peltier plate coolers and some fans around the intake air.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

I love heat exchangers but for the cost of implementing something like this you could justify a lot of co2 scrubbing media and just pull the already cooler air from inside the house. If you are set on a heat exchange system then setup some thermoelectric peltier plate coolers and some fans around the intake air.

We’ll see on the co2 media. I just ordered a 5 gallon pail of jorvet. I was blowing through BRS and Ice Cap media every 5-6 days, so it hasn’t been cost effective.

 

[Sean Clark]

We’ll see on the co2 media. I just ordered a 5 gallon pail of jorvet. I was blowing through BRS and Ice Cap media every 5-6 days, so it hasn’t been cost effective.

Are you running it as a recirculating system?

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Are you running it as a recirculating system?

For the last six months or so, yes. Previously it was not recirculating. It’s a newer home so it’s sealed tight and insulated very well with styrofoam and spray. I’m not chasing crazy numbers. Without co2 media it drops to 7.7 or so overnight. With media, 8 over night and I have it bypassed at 8.2. I ran a 1/2” line up to the attic when I installed the tank three years ago and before I ran into my physical issues. If I use the outside line to feed to skimmer my ph drops to 8 and hits 8.22 by 3pm and levels out. BUT, my chiller runs twice as long everyday and that’s only at high 90s, low 100s. It will be 115 this weekend so I’m sure it would run even more. So, if something could take the bulk of the edge off the temp for a few hundred bones while being super simple to implement, it would be well worth it.

 

[Sean Clark]

Would it be possible to raise your alk to get the pH you are looking for?
Another Idea is that you could run the line through a mini fridge that you also keep your frozen food in. The length of tubing will affect the skimmer efficiency but you could run a short tube into the mini fridge connected to a wide flat cooler inside the fridge and then out of the fridge and on to outside. The wide flat cooler will eliminate the need to have a coil of tubing in the cold environment and keep the resistance down.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Would it be possible to raise your alk to get the pH you are looking for?
Another Idea is that you could run the line through a mini fridge that you also keep your frozen food in. The length of tubing will affect the skimmer efficiency but you could run a short tube into the mini fridge connected to a wide flat cooler inside the fridge and then out of the fridge and on to outside. The wide flat cooler will eliminate the need to have a coil of tubing in the cold environment and keep the resistance down.

I’m at 9 now, and everything is happy. I’m a two part guy and can’t really switch to a calrx with Kalk yet. They do have that fancy electronic bubble counter regulator, but not being able to see much I doubt I could set that up. The BRS pre measured two part has been a life saver. As the stuff grows more it will not be as cost effective, but it is something one that can’t see can still manage. The mini fridge isn’t a bad idea. Keeping the resistance down is probably important. I should try to see if someone can help me with my manometer. I’m curious to see what the pressure drop is on my canister full of media,

 

[Sean Clark]

I never measured the differential but when I ran my line outside it was only about 3 aditional feet. I still upsized the tubing to 1/2".

 

[HuduVudu]

Wich one?

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

c02 media goes so quick and is so expensive,

It doesn't seem like very high cfm for a whole house, but im not familiar with these, I know my bath fan is like 120cfm and it moves some good air

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Umm, I am wondering about the purpose of this? It is not heat that you are wanting to exchange, but CO2 right? So you can't have any barrier to the passage of gas. This whole premise seems to be wrong unless I am missing something.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Umm, I am wondering about the purpose of this? It is not heat that you are wanting to exchange, but CO2 right? So you can't have any barrier to the passage of gas. This whole premise seems to be wrong unless I am missing something.

I dont understand, any more information? What do you mean "you can't have any barrier to the passage of gas"?

 

[Dennis Cartier]

I dont understand, any more information? What do you mean "you can't have any barrier to the passage of gas"?

Isn't the OP asking about putting a heat ex-changer on his skimmer line ran outside? The normal purpose of running outside air to your skimmer is to get a low CO2 source of air. So an inline heat ex-changer would defeat the base purpose right?

 

[Dennis Cartier]

As for using an HRV/ERV, that is far superior to using outside air to the skimmer. I use one myself.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Isn't the OP asking about putting a heat ex-changer on his skimmer line ran outside? The normal purpose of running outside air to your skimmer is to get a low CO2 source of air. So an inline heat ex-changer would defeat the base purpose right?

I think they were worried about raising tank temperature by using outside air to pull into the skimmer that can get to 120°f . One suggestion was the erv.

And yes that does seem like a potential issue using 120° air would probably increase overall tank temperature

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There's no barrier to the passage of gas to the inside of the house or to the outside. The thin barrier is between outgoing gas and incoming gas that allows some heat exchange, so you get some mitigation of the temp on the incoming fresh air.

 

[Jon's Reef]

I ran a 1/2” line up to the attic when I installed the tank three years ago

If you are pulling the air from the attic, it is much hotter than the outside temp.

Just get a roll of 25-50’ of 1/2-3/4” copper tubing to connect in the outside air line. Don’t even have to uncoil it. If you need more temp drop, blow a fan on the coil.