Algae ID

[TylerJaid]

So today I tested all my parameters:
Salinity- 1.025
Temp- 79
Ph- 8
Alk- 8.1
Magnesium-1350
Calcium- 410
Nitrate- 0 (undetectable by api and salifert kits did them both twice)
Phosphate- .02 (measure same with salifert and hanna checker)

I have now shut my refugium light off but my skimmer is still on, should I leave it run and pull the cup so it doesn’t removing anything? Filter sock keep in or remove?

I know I need to get more nitrates in the tank, so should I dose it or remove this stuff offline, what I thought has been gha this whole time is more than likely dinos… what do we all think? Thanks everyone

Pics of this stuff growing in overflow box, it also gets on corals and on top of gha or some kind of algae, it doesn’t mat in the sand or clear up at night!

I've not gone through the entire thread so it's hard to tell for me if adding nutrients is really beneficial at this point, but if you really want to increase nitrate you should dose ammonia: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-ammonia-dosing-for-low-nitrate-systems.987087/

Nitrate has to be converted back to ammonia before it can be properly assimilated by coral (and algae). This requires trace elements and energy and is only done when there is no better nitrogen source. Adding small amounts of ammonia fixes this issue and provides a direct benefit to corals.

You can do the same with phosphate if needed: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-phosphate-dosing-recipe.1109919/

That being said: Increasing nutrients while experimenting algae growth will probably just feed the algae.

To identify dinoflagellates with certainty I would recommend a cheap/used compound microscope with at least 200x, better 400x magnification. I can help with the identification once you provide images

I am going to read into this, I have been told to fix my nutrient issues before than deal with algae after, it’s just hard because there are so many different ideas, thoughts and opinions on the internet on what to do, and I am just trying to find the best way to tackle my problem, that has been around for well over a year. The manual removal and cuc doesn’t seem to work for me like everyone say I have been doing it along time and have had “0” nitrates the whole time.

I want to buy a microscope but have been spending a lot on the tank trying to beat this stuff as I just put in a sump a few weeks ago, new skimmer, fuge so about 1500$ and I think my wife may be catching on lol. But I do know your right and that is the only way to truly know what it is.

Also side note my sea hare who has been in there for about three weeks has done little to nothing against whatever kind of algae this is, the hermit crabs do seem to keep it at bay wherever they tend to stick around so maybe I should get a bunch more of them? I’m honestly almost at a loss but don’t want to give up!

 

[EnterName]

I am going to read into this, I have been told to fix my nutrient issues before than deal with algae after, it’s just hard because there are so many different ideas, thoughts and opinions on the internet on what to do, and I am just trying to find the best way to tackle my problem, that has been around for well over a year. The manual removal and cuc doesn’t seem to work for me like everyone say I have been doing it along time and have had “0” nitrates the whole time.

I want to buy a microscope but have been spending a lot on the tank trying to beat this stuff as I just put in a sump a few weeks ago, new skimmer, fuge so about 1500$ and I think my wife may be catching on lol. But I do know your right and that is the only way to truly know what it is.

Also side note my sea hare who has been in there for about three weeks has done little to nothing against whatever kind of algae this is, the hermit crabs do seem to keep it at bay wherever they tend to stick around so maybe I should get a bunch more of them? I’m honestly almost at a loss but don’t want to give up!

I understand your frustration, but I'm sure there will be a solution that works, even if it is a chemical one in the end. I often recommend going "all approaches" after another, due to the large amount of different and contradicting suggestions you can find online.

1. First an ICP-MS test and adjusting all elements to the desired levels. This sets the foundation of all treatments.
2. Nutrient reduction, manual removal of nuisance algae, frequent and large water changes (preferably with salt that does not contain organics like amino acids). It's easier to add nutrients than to remove them, so I would try this approach first.
3. If this didn't work for quite a while, you can try the "increase nutrients" approach by dosing ammonia and phosphate. I don't recommend overfeeding or similar as this increases organics as well and can lead to other issues along the way.
4. If there is still no change, I would try the more experimental approaches like silicate dosing against dinoflagellates, ozone, bleach dosing etc. This obviously requires a proper identification of the underlying issue. If you confuse chrysophytes for dinoflagellates and start dosing silicates you will just make the issue worse
5. When everything else failed, I would start throwing nukes: Fluconazole for actual algae (e.g. green hair algae), Fauna Marin DinoX (now DinoM) or similar products for dinoflagellates, antibiotics for cyanobacteria.

You will find used compound microscopes for $50 or $100 (sometimes even new ones) that can go up to 200 or better 400x magnification with sufficient quality, so you don't have to spend too much, but I absolutely understand that it's not a necessity for the hobby and you can't just throw money at things to hope it gets better.

I assume you have multiple nuisance algae issues at the same time which makes this especially frustrating. The mucus that gets caught in between what I suppose to be GHA could very well be Dinoflagellates. This might also cause the hair algae to be a bit off-color. Chrysophytes sometimes also grow into something that looks similar, so I wouldn't completely rule them out. Have you checked the TDS of your RO/DI by any chance?

​

Besides the obvious algae issue you might want to take a look at the large yellow spot in the photo.

As someone said earlier, this is most likely a sponge. It's probably an encrusting one that won't be scraped off easily (and doing so won't help much as they recover fast). If it is spreading aggressively you will need to take the rock out sooner or later to apply a proper treatment. Sponges cannot be treated within the tank and require you to nuke the rock with hydrogen peroxide or bleach.

 

[TylerJaid]

I am going to read into this, I have been told to fix my nutrient issues before than deal with algae after, it’s just hard because there are so many different ideas, thoughts and opinions on the internet on what to do, and I am just trying to find the best way to tackle my problem, that has been around for well over a year. The manual removal and cuc doesn’t seem to work for me like everyone say I have been doing it along time and have had “0” nitrates the whole time.

I want to buy a microscope but have been spending a lot on the tank trying to beat this stuff as I just put in a sump a few weeks ago, new skimmer, fuge so about 1500$ and I think my wife may be catching on lol. But I do know your right and that is the only way to truly know what it is.

Also side note my sea hare who has been in there for about three weeks has done little to nothing against whatever kind of algae this is, the hermit crabs do seem to keep it at bay wherever they tend to stick around so maybe I should get a bunch more of them? I’m honestly almost at a loss but don’t want to give up!

I understand your frustration, but I'm sure there will be a solution that works, even if it is a chemical one in the end. I often recommend going "all approaches" after another, due to the large amount of different and contradicting suggestions you can find online.

1. First an ICP-MS test and adjusting all elements to the desired levels. This sets the foundation of all treatments.
2. Nutrient reduction, manual removal of nuisance algae, frequent and large water changes (preferably with salt that does not contain organics like amino acids). It's easier to add nutrients than to remove them, so I would try this approach first.
3. If this didn't work for quite a while, you can try the "increase nutrients" approach by dosing ammonia and phosphate. I don't recommend overfeeding or similar as this increases organics as well and can lead to other issues along the way.
4. If there is still no change, I would try the more experimental approaches like silicate dosing against dinoflagellates, ozone, bleach dosing etc. This obviously requires a proper identification of the underlying issue. If you confuse chrysophytes for dinoflagellates and start dosing silicates you will just make the issue worse
5. When everything else failed, I would start throwing nukes: Fluconazole for actual algae (e.g. green hair algae), Fauna Marin DinoX (now DinoM) or similar products for dinoflagellates, antibiotics for cyanobacteria.

You will find used compound microscopes for $50 or $100 (sometimes even new ones) that can go up to 200 or better 400x magnification with sufficient quality, so you don't have to spend too much, but I absolutely understand that it's not a necessity for the hobby and you can't just throw money at things to hope it gets better.

I assume you have multiple nuisance algae issues at the same time which makes this especially frustrating. The mucus that gets caught in between what I suppose to be GHA could very well be Dinoflagellates. This might also cause the hair algae to be a bit off-color. Chrysophytes sometimes also grow into something that looks similar, so I wouldn't completely rule them out. Have you checked the TDS of your RO/DI by any chance?

​

Besides the obvious algae issue you might want to take a look at the large yellow spot in the photo.

As someone said earlier, this is most likely a sponge. It's probably an encrusting one that won't be scraped off easily (and doing so won't help much as they recover fast). If it is spreading aggressively you will need to take the rock out sooner or later to apply a proper treatment. Sponges cannot be treated within the tank and require you to nuke the rock with hydrogen peroxide or bleach.

I think you are spot on on what I am dealing with without having a microscope it is just a guess but I am going to go about fighting it that way.

I believe I have a fair amount of gha which is sucking all the nitrates and a lot of phosphates out of the water collumn. Also with me upgrading skimmers and adding a filter sock and refugium this past month it has compounded this issue of low nutrients. Before this I was using hob skimmer and filters for tank and pretty much only ever fought gha. So with that said I think the gha is using most of the nutrients and therefore ostreopsis (my guess) is taking a foothold now. It forms very long stringy bubbles on the gha and rock work not really ever on the sand.

I have removed the cup off of my skimmer, shut the light off on my refugium, added beneficial bacteria, am dosing phyto at 1ml per 2 gallons. On top of that I’m going to do a five day complete blackout.

In theory I am hoping that the blackout will kill the gha at least a little bit to raise nitrates for the beneficial bacteria to feed on and hopefully starve out the Dino’s overtime. I think it is pretty safe to say that the bad stuff is outcompeting the good in my tank and would like to do this as natural as possible.

I have also thought about buying a chuck of live rock to throw in or some ocean sand to give my tank more of a biodiverse microbiome.

Side note thank yellow spot on my rock is just from splitting the rock when I was aquascaping, it was white but looks that yellowish color due to green algae growing on the white spot.

I am going to let this run its course. After the blackout is over I am going to manually remove as much as possible while continued dosing of phyto plus beneficial bacteria weekly. While tracking nitrates and phosphate of course I know a I’ve sterilizer is probably what I need but that is even more out of my budget than a microscope so I am going to try this first while saving up some money if this doesn’t work at all. I would think that in the long run if I add enough beneficial bacteria that it would start to balance out with the bad and hopefully give my tank some stability in the sense of microfauna. I will try to update this as I am seeing it in case any one else is dealing with “gha starving the tank and leading to a form a dinos” I only have soft corals so the five day blackout may be tough on them but hope they will be okay and I’m hoping that this will give my bacteria a enough of a start to start working against the bad.

Does this sound like a okay plan to you guys any thoughts or improvements? It’ll be a few months before a uv sterilizer or microscope will be in my budget! Just doing what I can with what I have!

 

[TylerJaid]

I forgot to mention I use distilled water but it does read 0 on the tds I always check it before adding the salt into my bin!

 

[TylerJaid]

Better pictures of what the algae in the tank looks like just for everyone’s info

 

[EnterName]

[...]
Does this sound like a okay plan to you guys any thoughts or improvements?
[...]

Sounds like a plan. You can certainly try, but a blackout will starve your corals faster than GHA or dinoflagellates, so don't overdo it . I could image that the dinoflagellate issue will be solved once the GHA is gone, so I would concentrate on the GHA.

 

[TylerJaid]

[...]
Does this sound like a okay plan to you guys any thoughts or improvements?
[...]

Sounds like a plan. You can certainly try, but a blackout will starve your corals faster than GHA or dinoflagellates, so don't overdo it . I could image that the dinoflagellate issue will be solved once the GHA is gone, so I would concentrate on the GHA.

I have done a 4 day before and it knocked it back pretty well, I’m hoping a five day will loosen it from the rocks so it’s easier to suck out I don’t wanna do damage to the coral but in the long run with the way this stuff grows I need to get it out.

After I get most out I’m going to add more to my cuc, do weekly dosing of bacteria1/2 dose and turn my filters back on hope it works as good as it sounds