Algae scrubber ideas

[KleineVampir]

An Algae Scrubber is a long-term solution. Getting the base of growth to start can take anywhere from a couple weeks to a couple months. In some extreme cases, I've had customers have it take over 3 months for a scrubber screen to really get growing consistently. It all depends on your specific system, so there is no blanket answer that covers everyone.

But, 3 days is not a point where you can judge effectiveness. Now, if you have zero progress in growth and a completely bare white screen after a couple weeks, there's a problem.

Generally speaking, you will start getting a discoloration of the screen (usually brown, which is typically diatoms). If you take pics of the screen a couple times a week you can see this when you look at them side by side. If you want to get really specific about it, take the screen out and place it on a white cutting board and take a pic with the flash on. That really brings out the color progression (as long as you don't get flash glare).

So much for instant gratification, huh?

They say to let them know if you don't get anything after 2 weeks, but that still doesn't answer my question of when I can expect growth. But like you said, there isn't even an answer. Given this is a 0 water change system with GHA issues, you wouldn't think it'd be that hard! I think Steve was right about biofilm though. Seems like things that have been in the water for a while grow algae much faster. But at the same time, they did invent an entire material just for growing algae. I guess that got my expectations up a bit.

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

I haven't had time to fully read this thread, so I kinda jumped in and just picked that one thing to comment on, so there's that. I was just commenting generally, and on what I'm most knowledgeable on which is waterfall scrubbers. Now I see you are running a UAS, so my comment doesn't really directly apply, or at least not quite as well.

The part about it taking time to mature is still accurate. But in what I've seen posted over the years about UASs in general is that they are more hit or miss on the predictions about getting them going strong than waterfall scrubbers are.

As far as this:

they did invent an entire material just for growing algae.

It's quartz bonded in with epoxy, basically. It's technically not a "new material" but I get what you're saying - it's not roughed up canvas. My opinion is that was arrived upon because plastic canvas doesn't work well for upflow scrubbers - which is completely true. So the quartz material is more appropriate and does work better than plastic canvas.

Moreover, it's my opinion, based on results I and others have had, that the reason for canvas not being a good substrate underwater is because algae will, to an extent, adapt to it's environment. When algae is fully suspended underwater, it doesn't "need" to anchor strongly in order to survive. Compare this to an open-air algae scrubber (one not in an enclosure, or in a large one) - in such a case, for algae to stay attached in the presence of strong laminar flow, it will firmly anchor (over time) to the substrate (canvas) and will require strong scraping to remove it; some people have to use a knife or the corner of a plastic scraper.

Now, going into the middle of those 2 is the enclosed scrubber where you get an interesting result. As a disclaimer, I have to talk about my product here in order to explain this, so I don't mean to make this come off as just popping in here to toot my own horn. I made my growth chamber to specific dimensions and added a false bottom so that the chamber would encourage "3D growth". If you let it grow for a long enough period of time between harvests, the algae will form a "sandwich" of sorts, where the box/bottom and the mass of algae sort of supports itself. When this happens, the algae will basically weaken it's attachment to the screen (and this is where I guess) because it just doesn't require a strong attachment to a substrate to stay in place and thrive, so it diverts that energy to growth.

Now that all kinds makes it sound like algae is smart somehow...but it is one of the most primitive forms of life, so it goes to reason that it probably does a pretty good job adapting to it's environment.

Going back to the UAS though with the quartz, I believe the concept for that substrate follows along with my dissertation above - you have a microscopically porous surface where the algae forms a naturally stronger "foothold" so that it doesn't detach quite as easily in an environment where it doesn't require strong adhesion (underwater). This is why the quartz works better than the canvas, because plastic canvas isn't very porous, so algae that doesn't "need" a strong attachment ust won't stay very well attached to a relatively smoother surface.

It's a very good example of the saying "necessity is the mother of invention". It's just not something that is necessary in a waterfall scrubber, because the plastic canvas works just fine in that environment.

 

[KleineVampir]

I kinda feel like this is working the total opposite way it's supposed to. By day, the nutrients all get sucked out by the GHA in the display, then at night there's nothing left to grow with. Lol.

 

[KleineVampir]

Do you guys think I can check the scrubber too much? I've been checking it about once a day, now a little less. Every time I check it, it comes out of the water. Does that hurt the situation any?

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

It doesn't hurt at all to check it. But it's kind of like the whole "watched pot" thing. It's hard not to check it...

 

[sp1187]

SURF4X. took me 10 days to get growth.
very consistent now.

 

[KleineVampir]

It doesn't hurt at all to check it. But it's kind of like the whole "watched pot" thing. It's hard not to check it...

Ok thanks. In that case I guess I'll go check it again! But yeah maybe I should actually just forget about it...and it'd go faster.

 

[KleineVampir]

SURF4X. took me 10 days to get growth.
very consistent now.

Got any pictures?

 

[sp1187]

Got any pictures?

 

[KleineVampir]

So is that actually hair algae that looks like that when it's dry?

 

[KleineVampir]

Hm...the ultimate question is; is the algae on the strings just loose hair algae that became trapped by the device or is it actually growth? There seems to be more accumulating but I thought it was just sucking in loose GHA which does exist right next to it. This is what, night 10? I figured I'd leave that GHA in there and take the shade out. I figure maybe some algae in there isn't a bad thing even if it didn't originate in there. Also there's a chance it did.

Does anybody know enough about this unit (or a similar one with strings) to be able to say that the strings grow the algae first? If they do, it might stand to reason that it's actually growing algae in there.

 

[KleineVampir]

Well we're coming into night 14 here. Should I use a toothbrush and clean it out? Seems like that would just be like starting over. I still don't really see anything growing in there. Just some random hair algae that probably just got sucked in.

 

[sp1187]

mine is in my sump. the algae in it is what grew in it.

 

[KleineVampir]

I brushed some slime off it yesterday. I probably should have given it a brush earlier.

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

You definitely want to keep the slime at bay regularly for the first few weeks or so, because that tends to inhibit algae from getting a foothold. You can brush quartz lightly, or if it's a screen, swipe with your palm/rub with fingers and rinse. You can do this a couple times/week until you start to get visible algae growth, then just be careful not to remove the algae growth when you do that type of cleaning

 

[KleineVampir]

You definitely want to keep the slime at bay regularly for the first few weeks or so, because that tends to inhibit algae from getting a foothold. You can brush quartz lightly, or if it's a screen, swipe with your palm/rub with fingers and rinse. You can do this a couple times/week until you start to get visible algae growth, then just be careful not to remove the algae growth when you do that type of cleaning

Yeah that's what I was worried about. But at about day 14 I took a toothbrush to the inside of it, since it is quartz as you say. Much of it seemed like a clear slime which was kinda misleading because it's not like I could see that there was slime there. Eager to get this thing off the ground. So far, not a ton of luck. Plenty of GHA in the display though!

 

[Scrubber_steve]

If I had given a blow by blow of my scrubber's screen/algae progression to maturity it would have been a very long thread indeed.

 

[KleineVampir]

If I had given a blow by blow of my scrubber's screen/algae progression to maturity it would have been a very long thread indeed.

I just wish I was in business already! I want a solid brick of algae every 3 days!

How long would you say it might take for me to finally be "in business?"

 

[Scrubber_steve]

I just wish I was in business already! I want a solid brick of algae every 3 days!

How long would you say it might take for me to finally be "in business?"

I think its been made fairly clear that, that is like asking - how long is a piece of string?

 

[KleineVampir]

I think its been made fairly clear that, that is like asking - how long is a piece of string?

Lol well I thought maybe at this point you could make an educated guess based on my particular situation. Given that there's some nutrients in your water, and you're getting the slime out, isn't there a point when it has to be working? Or haven't you noticed that after a certain period of time, 100% of your scrubbers have started growing?

Or also I wonder if the red light is throwing this operation off. The algae I've been growing has always had at least some blue light. I'm wondering if the particular strain in my tank needs to adapt a bit before it can use just red light.