Algae scrubber, Skimmer or both

[mr9iron]

I have been in the process of building a 93 gallon cube for a few weeks now. Traditionally, for the last 20 something years I have always used a protein skimmer to remove waste.

However, I have took a leap and bought my very first algae scrubber, the Santa Monica Rain 2. I’ve been reading about algae scrubbing and am intrigued by it hence my purchase.

Who here runs a scrubber only and why? Do you notice a difference in your PH running it?

Who here runs both and why? What do you see as a benefit to running both.

When/if I purchase a skimmer it will be the Deltec 600ix.

What are your experiences and thoughts?

 

[ca1ore]

I would view skimmer and scrubber as complementary. Former removes proteins before they breakdown, latter after.

 

[mr9iron]

I would view skimmer and scrubber as complementary. Former removes proteins before they breakdown, latter after.

Do you run both?

 

[ca1ore]

Since 1994, yes ..... recently upsized both skimmer and scrubber on my big tank.

 

[biecacka]

I agree with Simon. I run both and love it. They have truly worked together on my tank very well. I have increased my feeding and honestly feel like I could almost double it and be okay.

Corey

 

[mr9iron]

I agree with Simon. I run both and love it. They have truly worked together on my tank very well. I have increased my feeding and honestly feel like I could almost double it and be okay.

Corey

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. I guess I will go ahead and get that skimmer ordered.

 

[Water Dog]

Though my tank is only a few weeks old, I just hooked up my ATS a couple of days ago... hopefully it will help with the new tank uglies and nutrient control as the tank matures. I’m using a Turbo’s L2 so I’m hoping to have a bit of flexibility with nutrient uptake because of the adjustable/dimmable lights... we’ll see.

 

[20/20Doc]

I have a skimmer and Turbo’s L2 on my 120, after 3 weeks of running the ATS, my nitrates and phosphates were near zero. I haven’t ran my skimmer since and that was 4 months ago. It is my opinion that once the ATS is established that a skimmer is not needed. I also removed filter socks.

 

[OREGONIC]

I run both, but had to start dosing phosphates due to being undetectable and having high nitrates. A few months after that I had undetectable nitrates so I started dosing that as well. Everything has balanced out now and I dose 1 cap of NeoPhos and 2 caps of NeoNitro to my 5 gallon ATO when its filled. Phosphates stay right around .06 ppm and nitrates around 3ppm. Scrubber produces a thick mat of algae that needs to be cleaned every week and a half. Pod population has exploded and coral colors are amazing.

 

[mr9iron]

I run both, but had to start dosing phosphates due to being undetectable and having high nitrates. A few months after that I had undetectable nitrates so I started dosing that as well. Everything has balanced out now and I dose 1 cap of NeoPhos and 2 caps of NeoNitro to my 5 gallon ATO when its filled. Phosphates stay right around .06 ppm and nitrates around 3ppm. Scrubber produces a thick mat of algae that needs to be cleaned every week and a half. Pod population has exploded and coral colors are amazing.

That is exactly why I have asked the question. I’m not to sure about putting in what I have been taking out. $$$$$

 

[OREGONIC]

I know what you mean, but I look at it this way. The additives cost next to nothing and last me 3 months for nitrates and 6 months for phosphates. I only do a water change every 2 months now. I actually began dosing phosphates strictly because my levels were undetectable and I could never get my nitrates to stay below 25 without a 20% weekly water change and my corals never looked great. Getting phosphates to a detectable was the key I was missing in dropping nitrates, and I had tried everything, carbon dosing, bio pellets, mass water changes, scrubber, refugium.... The way I look at it now that everything is stable is the skimmer removes the larger particles, and the scrubber breaks removes the excess. The skimmer promotes gas exchange and the scrubber stabilizes ph when the display lights are off. I think it is easier to stabilize nutrients by adjusting how much I dose as it is easier to add something then remove. So in summary
Pros: stable ph, stable/ability to control of nutrient levels, save money on salt, save money on water bill, save time on water changes, faster coral growth, better colors, pod populations, biodiversity, allows me to run a low maintenance simple tank.
Cons: have to clean the scrubber screen every 10ish days, have to buy phosphate/nitrate additives (very cheap), have to remember to add the additives to to ATO, have to run the ATO revisor near empty before replenishing to ensure I add the same concentration.
Its just what works best for my tank and my style of reefing I have developed, all of our tanks and styles are different.

 

[mr9iron]

I know what you mean, but I look at it this way. The additives cost next to nothing and last me 3 months for nitrates and 6 months for phosphates. I only do a water change every 2 months now. I actually began dosing phosphates strictly because my levels were undetectable and I could never get my nitrates to stay below 25 without a 20% weekly water change and my corals never looked great. Getting phosphates to a detectable was the key I was missing in dropping nitrates, and I had tried everything, carbon dosing, bio pellets, mass water changes, scrubber, refugium.... The way I look at it now that everything is stable is the skimmer removes the larger particles, and the scrubber breaks removes the excess. The skimmer promotes gas exchange and the scrubber stabilizes ph when the display lights are off. I think it is easier to stabilize nutrients by adjusting how much I dose as it is easier to add something then remove. So in summary
Pros: stable ph, stable/ability to control of nutrient levels, save money on salt, save money on water bill, save time on water changes, faster coral growth, better colors, pod populations, biodiversity, allows me to run a low maintenance simple tank.
Cons: have to clean the scrubber screen every 10ish days, have to buy phosphate/nitrate additives (very cheap), have to remember to add the additives to to ATO, have to run the ATO revisor near empty before replenishing to ensure I add the same concentration.
Its just what works best for my tank and my style of reefing I have developed, all of our tanks and styles are different.

This was one of the best explanations I’ve read in a while. Thank you for sharing it with me as it gives me something to consider now.

Out of curiosity what additives are you adding to your ATO? What size is your tank?

 

[mr9iron]

This was one of the best explanations I’ve read in a while. Thank you for sharing it with me as it gives me something to consider now.

Out of curiosity what additives are you adding to your ATO? What size is your tank?

Also, what phosphate and nitrate additives are you using? Where do you purchase them from?

 

[OREGONIC]

I have an red sea e170 with a sump added red sea sump, total water volume is roughly 45 gallons when factoring water displacement. I converted the ATO that came with the sump into a DIY scrubber, and just use a 5 gallon bucket to hold my ATO water. My tank goes thru 5 gallons of ATO water every 5-7 days depending on humidity. I dose NeoPhos and NeoNitro by Brightwell and get it from Bulk Reef Supply. I try to keep my setup pretty simple, I dose Aquaforest 123 to keep Alk, Cal, Mag, and trae elementals in check. In the sump I have my scrubber, a small reactor for carbon, a reactor that has bio media, and a bubble magus skimmer. I dont run filter socks, I just cut the ring off one and glued it to a plastic jug I bought at tap plastics that is the same size and drilled holes in the bottom. I put filter floss in the bottom of that occasionally but I can also put a bag of carbon in there if I feel something contaminated my tank, had a heater blow up one time and just added additional carbon to the tank and only did a 10% water change and had zero losses. I believe the carbon and the algae on the scrubber removed any of the heavy metals/toxins that leached out from the blown heater.

 

[OREGONIC]

Also it is moderately stocked for its size.
2 clown fish
1 yellow clown goby
1 bicolor blenny
1 leopard wrasse
1 watchman goby with pistol shrimp

 

[TinyTinCans]

I’m very thankful that this is being discussed.I have been debating this very subject in my mind for the past 6 months. I’m Getting back into the hobby after a 5 year sabbatical. I had a 2 year awesome 75gal mixed reef, but when I moved it was unpractical to move the reef the distance so I sold it. After a bout of depression from the the sale of my reef I’ve recovered and am sourcing parts for my new Tank. I found a 150gal 48”x 24”x 30” tall acrylic .(Craigslist $200)

On my last tank I only used a protein skimmer. However with my new tank the sump/overflow is Incorporated inside the tank like a big overflow box. It is only 4” wide so my skimmer options are basically an external skimmer or drilling and adding a sump which I would like to avoid. My question is this and I’m sorry for Hijacking your post I just felt like this was a great place to add it. How successful can you be with a scrubber only?

 

[OREGONIC]

This was an interesting discussion I saw a few days after this thread.

 

[TinyTinCans]

That video was awesome. He answered my question in five minutes but I felt compelled to keep watching. Thank you!

One thing I have noticed reading on this subject is that a lot of people remove their filter sock. I also noticed that you said you where not using filter socks. Is that Because you want the solids to break down into food for the algae? I was still thinking of running a socks Im assuming that any kind of nitrate removal would be beneficial. Did you ever try running just your scrubber and socks?

 

[Orm Embar]

When I last had a reef tank decades ago, it was a live rock/sand/downdraft skimmer setup. With my current tank (2+ years), I run a skimmerless Chaeto-refugium filtered tank.

Personally, I see algal filtration as a highly effective method that can be cheap and easy as well. A $30ish 36w LED grow bulb over a refugium with some Chaeto, and my tank generally does very well without any problems besides periodic slow growing Valonia (which is irritating).

Per Advanced Aquarist, skimmers remove 20-35% dissolved organics, so you need something else for the remainder.

On the dual skimmer/refugium front, skimmers improve gas exchange and provide a buffer in case things go wrong. I have a small in-sump Tunze which I keep around in case I need it.

For future tanks, I don't ever plan on having one without a refugium/reactor/scrubber.

 

[Jon Fishman]

I was going to do Skimmer, Scrubber AND Fuge..... but I'm just planning on Skimmer/Scrubber now.