algea trouble

[bam920]

I've been in the hobby a few years. Took a break and decided to start up saltwater again. I'm having trouble with swinging from cyano breakouts and hair algae. Its a 55 gallon tank, running a 20 gallon sump, skimmer, fuge with chateau and sea lettuce. 2 fans combined about 2000gph. Running 2 T5s 1 blue 1 white 10hrs during the day and grow light over the fuge 12hrs at night. About 50lbs of live rock. Been up about 6 months. I do between 10 and 20 gallon water changes once a week. I use rodi water TDS of 1. A month after the tank cycled i had this weird yellow algae breakout. I assumed it was just the ugly stage kept doing maintenance and checking levels. Ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 0, phosphate 0 at this point and continued. Prior to the algae my phosphates and nitrates were barley detectable. A few weeks later some red stuff shows up. It quickly over took the tank and had to do a blackout and large water change. After ammonia spiked and pH was out of wack and had to add some buffer. Then all was back to normal but then green hair algae started up. At this point the last 2 months I seem to swing from hair algae to cyano. When i do my maintenance and water change I clean the sand and remove the hair algae by hand and scrub the rocks. When the hair algae dies off the cyano starts, when i get rid of the cyano the hair algae blooms. I've even added a UV sterilizer which helped but continue to get these blooms. i also added a pencil urchin. He's done wonders on the hair algae but as soon as he cleans a spot cyano starts to take its place. The tank is in our office which has a patio door and gets a decent amount of sun. Maybe it's a bad location for a tank?

I've also been cycling a 90 the last month or so, readings indicated it should have cycled last week but noticed diatoms in the sand which is normal I hear but cyano appears to be starting on the rocks. I had detectable nitrates last week now everything is 0 in that tank. Any tips or advice would be appreciated. I'm concerned about having a cyano problem in my 90 that early and was hopping to start stocking it soon but I'm almost ready to throw my hands up with the 50.

 

[kingjames_dc5]

The light from the door is it direct light from outside. This will help with gha growth. Also I would cut off the lights completely until you have live stock that needs it to survive. Cyano and gha is usually caused by over feeding or to much light. These 2 also hold and store po4 But your test are coming out to zero. What are you using for test kits? I’m guessing they are the cause of very high nutrients in the water. Cause they are giving you zero. So your feeding habits haven’t changed even though your doing water changes. As for The second tank To correctly determine the algae pics would help identification process better.

 

[TexanCanuck]

In my experience, algae is unavoidable during the first 6 months of a new tank ... how quickly you can get rid of it is a function of how quickly you can get your water parameters STABLE ... and not just nitrates and phosphates, but pH, salinity, temperature, PAR levels, alkalinity, etc.

I hear you saying you have ZERO nitrates and phosphates, but that's hard to believe if you are bouncing back and forth between green hair algae and cyano ... what are your nitrates and phosphates when you are actively growing cyano?

The first thing I'd look at is your equipment ... make sure everything is running the way it ought to:
- are you cleaning your mechanical filtration media regularly?
- is your skimmer producing dark skimmate daily?
- is your sump clean?
- if you have media reactors, are they kept clean and are you changing the media regularly?

Then I'd look at what you are feeding, how much your are feeding, and how often you are feeding

From the perspective of your setup, the only two observations I'd offer are:

A) you seem to have a lot of light on your display, especially if it is near a window ... you might try reducing the photoperiod or raising the hight of the fixture from the tank.

B) What are you growing in your fuge? Chaeto? If so, what kind of light do you have over it? One way to think about this is to get your fuge to outcompete your display tank for nutrients ... you may have a longer photoperiod and more macroalgae in your fuge, but if you are lighting it with a bare bulb you aren't making much of an impact.

To get your tank clean again, I'd use some ChemiClean ... it works well against cyano. Just be aware that this is not a long-term fix ... it will get rid of the cyano you have today, but it won't stop it from coming back if you don't address the issues above.

Chemi Clean Red Cyano Remover - Liquid

2oz Liquid (treats up to 720 gallons) Chemi Clean will effectively remove many different stains that can be formed by cyanobacteria (red slime). It is common to encounter a red slime or matting algae that can quickly smother your rocks and even corals which can lead unpleasing aesthetics but...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Also, for the Green Hair Algae, I'd add some Vibrant. Only use this AFTER you've gotten rid of all your cyano, and use it only after a water change. Use it for a period of a month or two after every water change. Again, this is not a cure-all ... it will help with any GHA you have in your tank now but won't stop it from coming back

Medications

Bulk Reef Supply - Saltwater Aquarium Supplies for Reef Tanks

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Bottom line ... the sooner you get your tank parameters STABLE and keep them there, the sooner this will go away.

 

[Lavey29]

O nitrates and 0 phosphates are bad and will cause continual problems in your tank. Do you have corals or fish. Cut you lights to 6 hours run blue and UV only no white. Cut your fuge light to. You need to double dose neophos and neonitro until you get 5 to 10 nitrates and .08 phosphates. Manually remove what you can. Keep good flow on the sandbed. Feed 3x per day. Biweekly water change instead of weekly.

 

[TexanCanuck]

check out this video/thread ...

(Video) Dealing with Cyanobacteria

Hello, I usually don't share my videos on the Generals subcategories of the forum, most of my video are hidden in my thread you can watch here...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[tharbin]

Lots of great advice above.

The one other thing that struck me reading your description was RODI with a TDS of 1. Your TDS should be 0 if your DI stage is working correctly. You may want to check it as you may be getting some contaminates that you're not testing for.

 

[bam920]

The light from the door is it direct light from outside. This will help with gha growth. Also I would cut off the lights completely until you have live stock that needs it to survive. Cyano and gha is usually caused by over feeding or to much light. These 2 also hold and store po4 But your test are coming out to zero. What are you using for test kits? I’m guessing they are the cause of very high nutrients in the water. Cause they are giving you zero. So your feeding habits haven’t changed even though your doing water changes. As for The second tank To correctly determine the algae pics would help identification process better.

I feed a small pinch of flakes once a day. I cut back from twice a day when algae started. I use API test kits and Hanna for phosphate. I have a toadstool coral. He does ok. The skimmer does come out black I clean it every couple days. Chateau and sea lettuce in the sump. The sump has some algae growing. I got A 450 W purple grow light that suppose to have a high par rating for the fuge. My RODI filters are all new. I run it off an adapter on faucet with a pump and flush kit. I read somewhere under like 10 was ok. Worked great when I ran a 30 gallon for bout a year no algae and ultra low nutrient levels. Then upgraded to the 50 and moved my stock over. I have wondered if my sump is working to well and need to cut back on water changes. Just afraid to do so and have more problems. My levels are always 0 for the last 3months. Besides occasional ammonia and pH fluctuation after bigger water change. I even took my water in to local hobbyist store they said my levels looked perfect. I'm still skeptical since the tank I had a few years ago never read 0s, though I didn't run RODI in that tank. They did tell me more people have been having cyano problems latley. I did switch to blue lights on my T5s today after reading on other forums. A lot of these things I've tried but thought about cutting my lights back due to it being about 5-6 feet from a window. My 90 I'm almost positive it is diatoms in the sand based on what I've read. But there is stringy slimy stuff on the rocks that looks like the cyano in my other tank. I just cleaned the sand and did a water change today so hard to get a pic.

 

[vetteguy53081]

A few issues I see here- Not sure what are your parameters but API kit is notorious for false readings hence the low price.
Very high wattage for a fuge light and may be setting algae off so great in sump that its feeding the algae in the tank.
IS YOUR TANK AT OR NEAR A WINDOW? If so, ther UV will cause this continuous issue.
One of first things in battling Cyano is to find its' source. Cyano blooms typically start when water nutrient concentrations go haywire. Just like when you eat too much sugar and your waistline starts to bloom, the same happens in your tank when concentrations of phosphate, nitrate and other organic compounds are too high.
Some of the most common causes include:
- Protein skimmer which fills water with tiny air bubbles. As bubbles form from the reaction chamber, dissolved organic compound molecules stick to them. Foam forms at the surface of the water and is then transferred to a collection cup, where it rests as skimmate. When the protein skimmer does not output the best efficiency or you do not have the suitable protein skimmer to cover the tank, the air bubbles created by the skimmer might be insufficient. And this insufficiency of air bubbles can trigger the cyano to thrive.
- Overstocking / overfeeding, your aquarium with nutrients is often the culprit of a cyano bloom
- Adding live rock that isn’t completely cured which acts like a breeding ground for red slime algae
- If you don’t change your water with enough frequency, you’ll soon have a brightly colored red slime algae bloom. Regular water changes dilute nutrients that feed cyanobacteria and keeps your tank beautifully clear
- Using a water source with nitrates or phosphates is like rolling out the welcome mat for cyano. Tap water is an example
- Inadequate water flow, or movement, is a leading cause of cyano blooms. Slow moving water combined with excess dissolved nutrients is a recipe for pervasive red slime algae development

I recommend to reduce white light intensity or even turn them off for 5-7 days. Add liquid bacteria daily for a week during the day at 1.5ml per 10 gallons. Add Hydrogen peroxide at night at 1ml per 10 gallons. Add a pouch of chemipure Elite which will balance phos and nitrate and keep them in check.

After the week, add a few snails such as cerith, margarita, astrea and nassarius plus 6-8 blue leg hermits to take control.

 

[bam920]

A few issues I see here- Not sure what are your parameters but API kit is notorious for false readings hence the low price.
Very high wattage for a fuge light and may be setting algae off so great in sump that its feeding the algae in the tank.
IS YOUR TANK AT OR NEAR A WINDOW? If so, ther UV will cause this continuous issue.
One of first things in battling Cyano is to find its' source. Cyano blooms typically start when water nutrient concentrations go haywire. Just like when you eat too much sugar and your waistline starts to bloom, the same happens in your tank when concentrations of phosphate, nitrate and other organic compounds are too high.
Some of the most common causes include:
- Protein skimmer which fills water with tiny air bubbles. As bubbles form from the reaction chamber, dissolved organic compound molecules stick to them. Foam forms at the surface of the water and is then transferred to a collection cup, where it rests as skimmate. When the protein skimmer does not output the best efficiency or you do not have the suitable protein skimmer to cover the tank, the air bubbles created by the skimmer might be insufficient. And this insufficiency of air bubbles can trigger the cyano to thrive.
- Overstocking / overfeeding, your aquarium with nutrients is often the culprit of a cyano bloom
- Adding live rock that isn’t completely cured which acts like a breeding ground for red slime algae
- If you don’t change your water with enough frequency, you’ll soon have a brightly colored red slime algae bloom. Regular water changes dilute nutrients that feed cyanobacteria and keeps your tank beautifully clear
- Using a water source with nitrates or phosphates is like rolling out the welcome mat for cyano. Tap water is an example
- Inadequate water flow, or movement, is a leading cause of cyano blooms. Slow moving water combined with excess dissolved nutrients is a recipe for pervasive red slime algae development

I recommend to reduce white light intensity or even turn them off for 5-7 days. Add liquid bacteria daily for a week during the day at 1.5ml per 10 gallons. Add Hydrogen peroxide at night at 1ml per 10 gallons. Add a pouch of chemipure Elite which will balance phos and nitrate and keep them in check.

After the week, add a few snails such as cerith, margarita, astrea and nassarius plus 6-8 blue leg hermits to take control.

Yeah I kinda wondered about API kits. Though the Hanna phosphate tester I got says 0 also. Any recommendations on a decent test kit? The skimmer is pulling a lot out and was rated for my tank on high bio-load. I have to clean it sometimes every other day since the algae bloom. Before was like twice a week. I do about 10 gallon change every week which is 20% unless the tank is real bad or I did a black out and killed off a bunch then I do 20 gallons. I've used some of the chemical stuff and that mixed with the maintenance helped. I added an urchin, cerith, I've got some emeralds, cleaner shrimp, sally light-foot, and a conch. Waiting for stock to come in other snails and stuff. I hadn't seen cyano in several weeks bout a month, until my urchin went to town on the hair algae then the cyano started coming back. I've dialed back my lights each about 2 hrs. The grow light is 2 feet above my fuge could tat really be the problem? if so would shortening the time help or just get a different light. I was under the assumption bigger was better for fuge lights. I might give it another week to see if I'm over reacting then maybe try another black out and round of bacteria and stuff.

 

[melonheadorion]

Yeah I kinda wondered about API kits. Though the Hanna phosphate tester I got says 0 also. Any recommendations on a decent test kit? The skimmer is pulling a lot out and was rated for my tank on high bio-load. I have to clean it sometimes every other day since the algae bloom. Before was like twice a week. I do about 10 gallon change every week which is 20% unless the tank is real bad or I did a black out and killed off a bunch then I do 20 gallons. I've used some of the chemical stuff and that mixed with the maintenance helped. I added an urchin, cerith, I've got some emeralds, cleaner shrimp, sally light-foot, and a conch. Waiting for stock to come in other snails and stuff. I hadn't seen cyano in several weeks bout a month, until my urchin went to town on the hair algae then the cyano started coming back. I've dialed back my lights each about 2 hrs. The grow light is 2 feet above my fuge could tat really be the problem? if so would shortening the time help or just get a different light. I was under the assumption bigger was better for fuge lights. I might give it another week to see if I'm over reacting then maybe try another black out and round of bacteria and stuff.

i will agree with the API kit. the API tester for phosphate has read .25 reading on a tank where a more reputable tester will show 0. it might be a good kit to use to just get a general idea, for example, if you need to see if you have really high levels quickly, but thats the only trust i would have in it, and that wouldnt be much at all

 

[vetteguy53081]

Yeah I kinda wondered about API kits. Though the Hanna phosphate tester I got says 0 also. Any recommendations on a decent test kit? The skimmer is pulling a lot out and was rated for my tank on high bio-load. I have to clean it sometimes every other day since the algae bloom. Before was like twice a week. I do about 10 gallon change every week which is 20% unless the tank is real bad or I did a black out and killed off a bunch then I do 20 gallons. I've used some of the chemical stuff and that mixed with the maintenance helped. I added an urchin, cerith, I've got some emeralds, cleaner shrimp, sally light-foot, and a conch. Waiting for stock to come in other snails and stuff. I hadn't seen cyano in several weeks bout a month, until my urchin went to town on the hair algae then the cyano started coming back. I've dialed back my lights each about 2 hrs. The grow light is 2 feet above my fuge could tat really be the problem? if so would shortening the time help or just get a different light. I was under the assumption bigger was better for fuge lights. I might give it another week to see if I'm over reacting then maybe try another black out and round of bacteria and stuff.

Yes shorten fugue hours to about 6-7 hrs and add 1ml of liquid bacteria per gallons during the day and salifert and Hanna are both good kits

 

[kingjames_dc5]

A few issues I see here- Not sure what are your parameters but API kit is notorious for false readings hence the low price.
Very high wattage for a fuge light and may be setting algae off so great in sump that its feeding the algae in the tank.
IS YOUR TANK AT OR NEAR A WINDOW? If so, ther UV will cause this continuous issue.
One of first things in battling Cyano is to find its' source. Cyano blooms typically start when water nutrient concentrations go haywire. Just like when you eat too much sugar and your waistline starts to bloom, the same happens in your tank when concentrations of phosphate, nitrate and other organic compounds are too high.
Some of the most common causes include:
- Protein skimmer which fills water with tiny air bubbles. As bubbles form from the reaction chamber, dissolved organic compound molecules stick to them. Foam forms at the surface of the water and is then transferred to a collection cup, where it rests as skimmate. When the protein skimmer does not output the best efficiency or you do not have the suitable protein skimmer to cover the tank, the air bubbles created by the skimmer might be insufficient. And this insufficiency of air bubbles can trigger the cyano to thrive.
- Overstocking / overfeeding, your aquarium with nutrients is often the culprit of a cyano bloom
- Adding live rock that isn’t completely cured which acts like a breeding ground for red slime algae
- If you don’t change your water with enough frequency, you’ll soon have a brightly colored red slime algae bloom. Regular water changes dilute nutrients that feed cyanobacteria and keeps your tank beautifully clear
- Using a water source with nitrates or phosphates is like rolling out the welcome mat for cyano. Tap water is an example
- Inadequate water flow, or movement, is a leading cause of cyano blooms. Slow moving water combined with excess dissolved nutrients is a recipe for pervasive red slime algae development

I recommend to reduce white light intensity or even turn them off for 5-7 days. Add liquid bacteria daily for a week during the day at 1.5ml per 10 gallons. Add Hydrogen peroxide at night at 1ml per 10 gallons. Add a pouch of chemipure Elite which will balance phos and nitrate and keep them in check.

After the week, add a few snails such as cerith, margarita, astrea and nassarius plus 6-8 blue leg hermits to take control.

This is a great starting point. I second this. Give it some time and patience.

 

[bam920]

Dialing back the lights. Gonna try different test kit. Looking at a smaller light for my fuge. Going to add more cleanup crew when stock comes in at the store. If doesn't help after awhile might look at relocating the tank or moving everyone over to my 90 once its ready and confident it's cycled. Kinda concerned its the light from the patio door that's feeding it.

 

[bam920]

Pics of the algae in my 90 that's been cycling the last few months. I'm pretty sure the brown stuff is diatoms which should be normal. The stringy stuff looks like the red slime in my other tank. My lights in this tank have been off for tge most part during the cycle.

 

[bam920]

So update on the 50. I turned the display to blue and dialed the refugium light back to 6hrs. My chateo seems to grow slower but it stopped the cyano in its tracks. I removed my rocks and manually removed/cleaned the hair algae off. I did only a couple at a time over the week so as not to throw the system out of whack. I added mb7 through out the week to keep the good bacteria up. Hair algae seems to have slowed and cyano hasn't come back.. yet. Tested my levels and finally have detectable phosphate around 0.2 ppm. Nitrates and ammonia still read 0. I ordered some stuff from brs to try if it starts back up again. Oh and my TDS is reading 0 again. I'm not sure what changed there.

 

[vetteguy53081]

So update on the 50. I turned the display to blue and dialed the refugium light back to 6hrs. My chateo seems to grow slower but it stopped the cyano in its tracks. I removed my rocks and manually removed/cleaned the hair algae off. I did only a couple at a time over the week so as not to throw the system out of whack. I added mb7 through out the week to keep the good bacteria up. Hair algae seems to have slowed and cyano hasn't come back.. yet. Tested my levels and finally have detectable phosphate around 0.2 ppm. Nitrates and ammonia still read 0. I ordered some stuff from brs to try if it starts back up again. Oh and my TDS is reading 0 again. I'm not sure what changed there.

There you go !! Maintain this regimen

 

[Lavey29]

So update on the 50. I turned the display to blue and dialed the refugium light back to 6hrs. My chateo seems to grow slower but it stopped the cyano in its tracks. I removed my rocks and manually removed/cleaned the hair algae off. I did only a couple at a time over the week so as not to throw the system out of whack. I added mb7 through out the week to keep the good bacteria up. Hair algae seems to have slowed and cyano hasn't come back.. yet. Tested my levels and finally have detectable phosphate around 0.2 ppm. Nitrates and ammonia still read 0. I ordered some stuff from brs to try if it starts back up again. Oh and my TDS is reading 0 again. I'm not sure what changed there.

Sounds like positive progress just need to get nitrates up or other problems will arise. Dose neophos and neonitro if you need to.

 

[bam920]

I thought about going back to twice a day feeding now that things seem to be heading in the right direction. That should increase nitrates I assume? Especially with adding the mb7.

 

[Lavey29]

I thought about going back to twice a day feeding now that things seem to be heading in the right direction. That should increase nitrates I assume? Especially with adding the mb7.

If you read the MB7 label it states removes nitrate and phosphate so you are working against yourself there.

 

[bam920]

Brs site says for use with mb7. So your saying I could stop using the mb7 see if nitrates rise and if not add then add Neonitro?