Alk low. Need dosing advice.

[Sdoutreefer]

Tested my Alk today and it was 6.0, might actually be lower, using Salifert. Other params are:
Ca: 420 (salifert)
Mag: 1400 (salifert)

I dose ESV B-ionic 2 part for calc and alk. And ESV Mag. I dose Alk and calc on seperate days, Around 10ml of both (2-3 times a week). This seems to be working for calc, but I honestly didn't think my Alk would be that low. Do any of you have a suggestion to raise it? I'm worried if I increase Alk too quickly my SPS will RTN/STN (yes, this happened to me before and I lost 2 colonies).

Another thing to add, I dose Red Sea NoPox daily (2ml/day). Could this have an effect on my alk? Just curious because I know GFO (being a phosphate reducer) can lower Alk..

 

[Sandyp1]

Not sure of the chemistry reason, but I also dose Bionic Calk Alk and Mag, but I think the calc and Alk should be dosed the same day. I dose 10ml a day an hour apart. Do that for a week and see if anything changes, then up each by 2ml and test every other day and see where you go.
What salt are you using? I would also test a batch of freshly mixed salt water and see what your numbers are there.

 

[Rob&Gab]

whats your PH?

 

[Sdoutreefer]

Not sure of the chemistry reason, but I also dose Bionic Calk Alk and Mag, but I think the calc and Alk should be dosed the same day. I dose 10ml a day an hour apart. Do that for a week and see if anything changes, then up each by 2ml and test every other day and see where you go.
What salt are you using? I would also test a batch of freshly mixed salt water and see what your numbers are there.

Ok I'll give it a shot. I use RSCP. My bucket so far has tested as advertised (except alk is not as high as advertised, but only slightly less, I can't remember the exact number).

I honestly don't know what my Ph is. I never test Ph and don't own any kit or strips. I should probably get something hehe.. I have had good growth the past couple of months..

 

[Sdoutreefer]

Do I have to dose an equal amount of calc to alk? Calc doesn't need raised, so is there a reason to dose it? Other then when it gets used up..

 

[mike007]

You can raise the alk. until you get It up to where you want it. Do it slowly not raising more than 1.5 dkh a day. Once you get it balanced with your ca. the you can figure out what your dosing regiment should be to keep levels stable. Better to dose small amounts every day.

 

[kingsofke]

I dose calcium and alkalinity separately (randy Holmes 3 part solution, google it). In my tank the dosing requirement is much higher for alkalinity then calcium. About 10:1 difference for my own made solutions. I use sodium bicarbonate for dosing. I have used baking soda in the past but right now am using drsfosterandsmith store brand. I keep alkalinity at 8-9 range. I use BRS Dosing pump to dose at night.

 

[kingsofke]

You can find online calculator to tell you how much bicarbonate you need to dose to being allkalinity up. Then make a solution in 5 gallon jug and drip it with airline tubing with valve with one drop every second or slower. Commercial 2 part solutions can only be used once any deficiency has been corrected and are usually required to be doses at equal amounts. They are more of buffers than actually replacing a big deficiency.

 

[Reefing Madness]

BAKING SODA & THE REEF AQUARIUM - REEFEDITION

 

[Sdoutreefer]

BAKING SODA & THE REEF AQUARIUM - REEFEDITION

I'll need to look into that more! Thanks for the link.

So, 2 part isn't a good way to go to increase params, but rather to keep params stable? With past tanks, I never dosed, and still don't completely like the idea of dosing. But I do agree that if used in a safe manner it could be beneficial. I'd rather just do water changes to keep params stable and at proper levels, especially after making a couple colonies RTN. As of recent, it seems like water changes aren't enough, even with a high end salt mix, to keep up with my increase of SPS corals, so now I'm looking into dosing something pretty seriously.

Also, I'm too broke to afford a dosing pump. I know with dosing you should have one but there's no way I could afford one, unless there's a cheap one I have yet to find. Does anyone have any links to good DIY ideas?

 

[mike007]

When your bio load increases water changes may not keep up with the demand. That's where you will need to dose calcium, alkalinity and magnesium. First thing to do is dose your tank to where you want your levels and then go three days without dosing. Then you will test these parameters and divide by three and that will tell you your daily consumption. After you do this then you can go to the reef calculator and it will tell you how much of each you need to add daily to maintain these levels. You can manually dose or better yet get a dosing pump where you can spread out doses throughout the day to keep everything good and stable. Most of us use the 2 part due to the value.

 

[Reefing Madness]

I got stuff all under the tank, I just dose whats needed at the time Im testing. Not everyone has that luxury though.

 

[mike007]

Get a dosing pump my friend it will make your life so much easier. lol

 

[Sdoutreefer]

I got stuff all under the tank, I just dose whats needed at the time Im testing. Not everyone has that luxury though.

That's the boat I'm in now. Don't know any different!

Get a dosing pump my friend it will make your life so much easier. lol

Haha I need to win the lottery or something!

 

[Ddavis]

You can use cheap things like the toms aqua lifter for $17 to dose but I suggest that you get used to just adding so much alk per day to hold it at the right level. A ph probe can save your animals if something goes wrong and my input would be that this should be your next investment even if you get it off of eBay. My guess is that you have quite a few soft corals and are not doing weekly water changes so your alk has dipped. As long as the corals look alright then you are fine and focus on bringing it back up slowly.

When the time comes for a dosing pump the BRS route is a timer or controller plus the pump ($79 x 2 plus two timers)

The other way to go would be to look at fish street dot com for their doing pumps. I think they have something for about $130 with three heads so you colud dose two part and have one left over.

As for DIY you could rig up something like this to a 12 volt power supply: http://m.ebay.com/itm/281209900269?nav=SEARCH

It would also need a timer

At the end of the day I would not have a dosing pump without a ph probe because if something goes wrong it will show up on the ph probe.

Best of luck.

 

[MikeAndrews]

How large is your tank? May want to consider dose pumps to add 2 part. I have a 190 gal reef that the 2 part and bubble magus dose pump keeps my ca at 480, Alk at 9 and mg at 1300. Never any issues with significant swings.

 

[mcarroll]

Do I have to dose an equal amount of calc to alk? Calc doesn't need raised, so is there a reason to dose it? Other then when it gets used up..

It's not uncommon for the demand for alkalinity to be slightly higher than the demand for calcium because there are some other processes at work besides stony coral growth that also consume alkalinity. Once there's a significant volume of stony growth, the difference between alk and ca doses becomes pretty close to insignificant and both doses should end up being about the same.

[...]So, 2 part isn't a good way to go to increase params, but rather to keep params stable? With past tanks, I never dosed, and still don't completely like the idea of dosing. But I do agree that if used in a safe manner it could be beneficial. I'd rather just do water changes to keep params stable and at proper levels, especially after making a couple colonies RTN. As of recent, it seems like water changes aren't enough, even with a high end salt mix, to keep up with my increase of SPS corals, so now I'm looking into dosing something pretty seriously.

Also, I'm too broke to afford a dosing pump. I know with dosing you should have one but there's no way I could afford one, unless there's a cheap one I have yet to find. Does anyone have any links to good DIY ideas?

Making Adjustments
I wouldn't say 2-part isn't a good way to increase parameters....it's the best way. I think the concern is that if you use some of your two-part bottle for a "make-up dose" then your bottles don't contain equal amounts of doses anymore. I don't see the point in worrying about this. In the long run you're buying a million of these bottles and/or switching to baking soda.

I say make your corrections and just do better calculating your doses next time. Don't sweat the rest!

Commitment To Stonies?
Dosing pump or not, if you're going to respectably keep stony corals, the tank must be dosed every day. A solid 20%/weekly water change schedule will help a lot. If this sounds like too much of a commitment, then don't add more than 1 or 2 stony colonies. Otherwise an alkalinity crash and RTN is the guaranteed ultimate result.

Remember that there are lots of great corals out there that don't require dosing at all.

You Aren't Broke; You Just Don't Have Your Priorities Straight!
If you can cobble together a little money, for between ten and twenty bucks on eBaYmazon you can get a little peristaltic pump and 12v motor. Combined with any 12v/1A transformer/wall wart (and alternately a 12v dimmer or regular appliance timer, or both) it makes a super-cheap, very nice dosing solution. (Don't expect the motors or pump heads to last forever, but they're both easily serviceable/replaceable.)

Hope this helps!

-Matt

 

[Sdoutreefer]

You can use cheap things like the toms aqua lifter for $17 to dose but I suggest that you get used to just adding so much alk per day to hold it at the right level. A ph probe can save your animals if something goes wrong and my input would be that this should be your next investment even if you get it off of eBay. My guess is that you have quite a few soft corals and are not doing weekly water changes so your alk has dipped. As long as the corals look alright then you are fine and focus on bringing it back up slowly.

When the time comes for a dosing pump the BRS route is a timer or controller plus the pump ($79 x 2 plus two timers)

The other way to go would be to look at fish street dot com for their doing pumps. I think they have something for about $130 with three heads so you colud dose two part and have one left over.

As for DIY you could rig up something like this to a 12 volt power supply: http://m.ebay.com/itm/281209900269?nav=SEARCH

It would also need a timer

At the end of the day I would not have a dosing pump without a ph probe because if something goes wrong it will show up on the ph probe.

Best of luck.

I actually have mostly stonies. All have good growth and color. I guess I shouldn't say ALL. A couple aren't too vibrant. Also, growth hasn't been very good for a couple of weeks, that's why I ended up testing everything also because I have started carbon dosing and wanted to see if it was affecting my params. But thank you for the advice!

How large is your tank? May want to consider dose pumps to add 2 part. I have a 190 gal reef that the 2 part and bubble magus dose pump keeps my ca at 480, Alk at 9 and mg at 1300. Never any issues with significant swings.

My tank is a 40 breeder with 50 lbs of live rock and a 30g sump. I usually do a 10g water change every week with red sea coral pro salt, but I'm going to be going out of town soon and changed my WC schedule to twice a week and it's been that way for the last month. I wanted to see how my tank would react before I left because the person looking after it will only be responsible for filling my ATO reservoir and feeding. So I'm going to need to change something or teach them exactly how to do water changes. Only thing is I know if they screw up, and with my somewhat small water volume, too much or too little of salt could dramatically effect my tank.

It's not uncommon for the demand for alkalinity to be slightly higher than the demand for calcium because there are some other processes at work besides stony coral growth that also consume alkalinity. Once there's a significant volume of stony growth, the difference between alk and ca doses becomes pretty close to insignificant and both doses should end up being about the same.



Making Adjustments
I wouldn't say 2-part isn't a good way to increase parameters....it's the best way. I think the concern is that if you use some of your two-part bottle for a "make-up dose" then your bottles don't contain equal amounts of doses anymore. I don't see the point in worrying about this. In the long run you're buying a million of these bottles and/or switching to baking soda.

I say make your corrections and just do better calculating your doses next time. Don't sweat the rest!

Commitment To Stonies?
Dosing pump or not, if you're going to respectably keep stony corals, the tank must be dosed every day. A solid 20%/weekly water change schedule will help a lot. If this sounds like too much of a commitment, then don't add more than 1 or 2 stony colonies. Otherwise an alkalinity crash and RTN is the guaranteed ultimate result.

Remember that there are lots of great corals out there that don't require dosing at all.

You Aren't Broke; You Just Don't Have Your Priorities Straight!
If you can cobble together a little money, for between ten and twenty bucks on eBaYmazon you can get a little peristaltic pump and 12v motor. Combined with any 12v/1A transformer/wall wart (and alternately a 12v dimmer or regular appliance timer, or both) it makes a super-cheap, very nice dosing solution. (Don't expect the motors or pump heads to last forever, but they're both easily serviceable/replaceable.)

Hope this helps!

-Matt

Thanks for the advice! Like I said in response to MikeAndrews, I used to do weekly 10g water changes but won't be able to soon.

 

[Ddavis]

The other way to handle this is by adding a certain amount of Kalkwasser to your ATO versus dosing two part. If you already have your ato setup then follow the instructions to start adding kalkwasser. You will need a power head in the ato container but I think you said that you already have that going. It will then replenish the alk and calcium in the tank when the water gets replenished. It all takes experimentation to figure out what will create the right levels over the time span until your WC happens.


Here is a video with someone setting it up:Kalkwasser, slow and steady - YouTube

 

[mcarroll]

Having automatic dosers is really the only reasonable way you get a vacation of more than a couple days away from an SPS tank.

Putting a sitter in charge of an SPS tank where water changes or dosing will be involved is a dicey, dicey proposition. Even if they are "SPS-aware". If not, I'd trust your cat just about as much as a sitter. I've seen it go wrong so many times that it literally may be better just to have your tank left alone while you're gone. Dim the lights to minimize alkalinity usage a little. Maybe run the tank a little cooler as well...maybe by 2 degrees or so? Fragging back your corals a lot will also reduce consumption.

There's no ideal way to go about leaving an un-automated SPS tank.

-Matt