Alk readings with GHL

Wolters_88 · Sep 11, 2020

Michael Gray said:
also look for when it backflushes does all the water push out the tube to the filter at end and actually filter is empty as well except maybe just a touch of water?

I don’t have a filter on it

Wolters_88 · Sep 11, 2020

Ditto said:
Are you using the filter on your KH water intake side for the aquarium? If you remove it does it stabilize? I had a problem where mine got clogged(it was in my sump) and I had to remove it and replace it with a new one.

Second questiion are you doing water changes and if is the water change being done on or around the time of your sample taking?

third make sure your vent tube for both the water water and the one off the back of the unit it not submerge in water.

forth and this was a mistake I did and never throught about it is your ato line close to your KH supply line? This can be amplified also if your using Kalk also. I was going days tearing down the KH and looking, recalibrated the probe each time the pumps and finally caught a break when during one of my KH samples I heard my ato kick on and went please not something this stupid. We did not have graphing of dosing pumps back when this happen but moved my ato line.

Fifth a larger sample of water, I have seen the best results, when the sample is larger then smaller.

I have three running, 1 stand alone and 2 connected to Profilux and after you dial them in they should not cause you any grief. Yes I have had a spike suddenly to 13, do I panic no I just do another test and it goes back to 7.5 and like ok good. I get one of those maybe every 5-6 months. I calibrate my probe every 3-6 months. Except for the one issue I outlined below :)

Last I was having a problem with one of my units, where it became very erratic to the point o what’s wrong with it. I did a support call and they asked me to take off the cover and noticed the supply lines were clogged. This was because I was not using the filter on the water sample side, I was like it in the return chamber of my sump it should be ok. This took about a year, I wish I took picture cause even the chamber that held the PH probe had gunk in it. I had to replace the tubing and I cleaned the chamber and it was back up and running like nothing was wrong.

PS: it is also very important to keep the distance from the KH solution to the pump to the shortest distance. If your also using a container other then the sticking the dosing line in the bottle make sure there are no leaks in where you attach the tub to the container but also also within the dosing container itself to the cap where you attach your dosing tube. I was helping a friend who was having an issue where the KH solution was not in a bottle he loved being color coordinated with dosing containers and started having an issue and thought his KH was bad.hoe we found it was he started to notice a small air bubble appear, so to confirm he stuck the tube in a new bottle of KH solution and the problem went away.

I’m not using a filter. The water changes Are automated and it happens at 9pm on Sunday. The director does tests at 12 and 12.

Ditto · Sep 11, 2020

Are you seeing a swing on Monday and Tuesday? And how much? Does it stabilize after Tuesday or are you getting wild readings all week?

Are you mixing new saltwater on Sunday also? And is the alk of the new saltwater close to your tank parameter?

Sorry for all the questions, I am doing auto water changes and use to get swings and had to change my salt to the alk that was closer to my tank parameter.

Wolters_88 · Sep 11, 2020

Ditto said:
Are you seeing a swing on Monday and Tuesday? And how much? Does it stabilize after Tuesday or are you getting wild readings all week?

Are you mixing new saltwater on Sunday also? And is the alk of the new saltwater close to your tank parameter?

Sorry for all the questions, I am doing auto water changes and use to get swings and had to change my salt to the alk that was closer to my tank parameter.

Here is the last week. My water is made ahead of time. It’s in a 35 gallon container. I use tropic marine pro salt.

t5Nitro · Sep 11, 2020

Honestly glad to read through this thread. I can't offer any advice as I don't have ghl products but was looking to get their KHD and doser to better automate my system. Looks like more than one person has been having issues, and any piece of testing equipment is useless here if the results are not reliable. I wonder if everybody trusts their apex trident as reliable or the alkatronic, or stick with the seemingly standard here being the hanna checker. I wish phos and alk could both be automated with a device that is reliable. Those 2 tests take up a small but decent amount of time every morning where I'd rather just have it displayed to me on an app.

Ditto · Sep 11, 2020

1. What is your water sample size for your test?
2. Can you give me a picture of your setup
3. Can you do a alkalinity test of your water station. How long after you make the salt do you change the water for your tank? Just trying to see how long it sitting
4. How much water you changing on Sunday? Is it all at once or done throughout the day? And how big is your tank?
5. Are you dosing anything? 2 part, 3 part?

sorry for all the questions trying to get a full picture :)

Wolters_88 · Sep 13, 2020

Ditto said:
1. What is your water sample size for your test?
2. Can you give me a picture of your setup
3. Can you do a alkalinity test of your water station. How long after you make the salt do you change the water for your tank? Just trying to see how long it sitting
4. How much water you changing on Sunday? Is it all at once or done throughout the day? And how big is your tank?
5. Are you dosing anything? 2 part, 3 part?

sorry for all the questions trying to get a full picture :)

1. Sample volume is 80 and sample tube is 22
2. Attached a pic
3. My brute reads 8.1 on my Hannah checker.
4. I change 5 gallons and it’s a 32G biocube.
5. I’m not dosing anything at all. That was the point of this system.

my GHL is saying 7.6 right now and Hannah is saying 7.2. But 5 days ago GHL was saying 8.9 and Hannah was reading...7.2 then too.

Wolters_88 · Sep 15, 2020

Can anyone tell me where To input the length of the water Intake hose? I know there is a place but I can’t seem to find it. Just trying to make sure my system knows it’s 65”.

Ditto · Sep 15, 2020

Water sample settings, click on the calculator I. The KH settings.

Wolters_88 · Sep 15, 2020

Ditto said:
Water sample settings, click on the calculator I. The KH settings.

I sent you a PM the other day to try to get your input.

arking_mark · Sep 15, 2020

My fellow reefer, GHL is a lab quality device that needs lab quality calibration. Additionally, CUSTOM tank automation is difficult due to the way they obfuscate the actual sensors and controls. That being said, if you can wrap your head around their logic, it can really do anything. The learning curve is not to steep once you understand their approach to sensors and controls.

Specifically around the KH Director, as stated by other reefer, you need to precisely calibrate all 3 pump heads, the ph probe, and the volume of the sample tube. After setup, it takes about 3 tests to start getting accurate results. Then after a couple weeks of break in, it needs to be recalibrated. I know, I fought this battle and feel that such an expensive piece of equipment shouldn't be this hard.

How do you know its working right? Well you can test it against reference solution they sell and you can measure the waste water to see if everything adds up. If it doesn't, something was not calibrated precisely. Its not written anywhere, but you can monitor the pumps as they operate. For my setup that has a sample tube and filter volume of 40ml and sample size set to 65ml, it performs as follows:
1. The sample pump will pull in volume + 12ml to prep the test chamber. 52ml for me.
2. The waste cannot be measured by pump and only puts out about 10ml. (If you manually run the pump, you can squeeze out the 1-2ml of fluid that I believe is the wetness of the initial rinsing)
3. Then the sample pump pulls in sample volume. 65ml for me.
4. Then the reagent pump pulls 1-2ml
5. The waste pump dumps everything
6. The sample pump reverses and empties

In the end you should have wasted 12 + sample volume + reagent volume. Or for me 12 + 65 + ~2 or 79ish.

My issues with precise calibration was with the sample tube and filter volume. The sample tubing was not fully emptying at the end of the cycle so I was ending up with extra sample water. The culprit is the filter. Depending on how it is installed will change the volume it accounts for. Its best to install vertically.

I found that the best way to calculate the volume is to measure it.
1. Unplug the sample tube from the KH Director
2. Run the sample pump until it is dumping water. (Simulates the initial draw)
3. Then calibrate the pump (might as well)
4. Then run the pump in reverse with the other end of the sample tube now into a graduated cylinder until it out of water. This simulates the clearing of the sample tube. That volume is the sample tube and filter volume. Your thinking why can't I just run the pump forward into a graduated cylinder to get the volume? Its because the direction of the filter will effect its ability to be vacated.

Hope this helps.

Wolters_88 · Sep 15, 2020

arking_mark said:
My fellow reefer, GHL is a lab quality device that needs lab quality calibration. Additionally, CUSTOM tank automation is difficult due to the way they obfuscate the actual sensors and controls. That being said, if you can wrap your head around their logic, it can really do anything. The learning curve is not to steep once you understand their approach to sensors and controls.

Specifically around the KH Director, as stated by other reefer, you need to precisely calibrate all 3 pump heads, the ph probe, and the volume of the sample tube. After setup, it takes about 3 tests to start getting accurate results. Then after a couple weeks of break in, it needs to be recalibrated. I know, I fought this battle and feel that such an expensive piece of equipment shouldn't be this hard.

How do you know its working right? Well you can test it against reference solution they sell and you can measure the waste water to see if everything adds up. If it doesn't, something was not calibrated precisely. Its not written anywhere, but you can monitor the pumps as they operate. For my setup that has a sample tube and filter volume of 40ml and sample size set to 65ml, it performs as follows:
1. The sample pump will pull in volume + 12ml to prep the test chamber. 52ml for me.
2. The waste cannot be measured by pump and only puts out about 10ml. (If you manually run the pump, you can squeeze out the 1-2ml of fluid that I believe is the wetness of the initial rinsing)
3. Then the sample pump pulls in sample volume. 65ml for me.
4. Then the reagent pump pulls 1-2ml
5. The waste pumps dumps everything
6. The sample pump reverses and empties

In the end you should have wasted 12 + sample volume + reagent volume. Or for me 12 + 65 + ~2 or 79ish.

My issues with precisely calibration was with the sample tube and filter volume. The sample tubing was not fully emptying at the end of the cycle so I was ending up with extra sample water. The culprit is the filter. Depending on how it is installed will change the volume it accounts for. Its best to install vertically.

I found that the best way to calculate the volume is to measure it.
1. Unplug the sample tube from the KH Director
2. Run the sample pump until it is dumping water. (Simulates the initial draw)
3. Then calibrate the pump (might as well)
4. Then run the pump in reverse with the other end of the sample tube now into a graduated cylinder until it out of water. This simulates the clearing of the sample tube. That volume is the sample tube and filter volume. Your thinking why can't I just run the pump forward into a graduated cylinder to get the volume? Its because the direction of the filter will effect its ability to be vacated.

Hope this helps.

I don’t run a filter in mine.

I have an issue with my sample volume. On the app it says one thing and on the computer it says another and both are 65” plus the 2.5” Vinny says to add in the video for the length of the machine itself. So 67.5” overall. Now look at the pictures I have attached.

arking_mark · Sep 15, 2020

Again. I would physically measure the volume and not use the calculations. If there is an extra 2.5" for the machine...I'm not accounting for that.

Based on a support ticket, they recommended physically measuring it to be more precise.

arking_mark · Sep 15, 2020

2.5" = .8ml

Do you have link to video? I don't recall that being in the written instructions.

arking_mark · Sep 15, 2020

Also 67.5 inches with 4mm tubing should be 21.5ml.

arking_mark · Sep 15, 2020

Their GHL YouTube video #3 for setting up the KHD just mentions including the beige dosing pump tube which is 4.7".

Wolters_88 · Sep 15, 2020

arking_mark said:
2.5" = .8ml

Do you have link to video? I don't recall that being in the written instructions.

It’s the on computer setup video Vinny did on YouTube. Don’t know if I’m allowed to post that here. Oh, well hell. I added 2.5” and not 4.7”. Did you see how it’s telling me two different measurements on computer vs app? what the heck?