All fish struggling to breathe at bottom of tank

[StarfoxForever]

Temp 77.5
Salinity 35
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 10
Tank size 180 gallons
Sump 50 gallons

We bought a blue hippo tang and scopas tang from Petco, and shortly after noticed ich. We had put both into our main tank, so decided to pull all fish and quarantine with Fritz Coppersafe at a level of 2.0, and let our MT fallow for 70 days.

We slowly added our fish back in about two weeks ago, and everyone has been doing fine.

Day before yesterday we bought a flame angel and annularis angel, put them in quarantine, and I’ve been slowly upping the dose of Coppersafe as a preventative
Yesterday we bought 2 wavemakers (Jebao MCP-150), and removed the two powerheads (idk what brand, got them off Amazon over a year ago).


Woke up
and our coral beauty was dead in the sand.
Blue hippo tang was hiding and breathing heavy. I attached a video of her about half an hour before she passed.
Scopas tang is now in quarantine struggling very hard (attached video).
We decided to move our clownfish pair back into quarantine as well.

So now everyone’s in there and I’m pretty sure scopas is… beyond helping.

I was told by our LFS that it looks like a combination of lack of oxygen in the water and internal parasites. We were advised to move everyone back to QT for 2-6 weeks and treat with Coppersafe at 5.0, and were given an air stone to put in the QT.

I’m posting with the hopes that I can help our scopas (I know odds are low), and see what medication is recommended for this situation, and see if anyone might have more insight into what has happened to our fish.

Thank you in advance for advice and help.

 

[MnFish1]

Temp 77.5
Salinity 35
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 10
Tank size 180 gallons
Sump 50 gallons

We bought a blue hippo tang and scopas tang from Petco, and shortly after noticed ich. We had put both into our main tank, so decided to pull all fish and quarantine with Fritz Coppersafe at a level of 2.0, and let our MT fallow for 70 days.

We slowly added our fish back in about two weeks ago, and everyone has been doing fine.

Day before yesterday we bought a flame angel and annularis angel, put them in quarantine, and I’ve been slowly upping the dose of Coppersafe as a preventative
Yesterday we bought 2 wavemakers (Jebao MCP-150), and removed the two powerheads (idk what brand, got them off Amazon over a year ago).


Woke up
and our coral beauty was dead in the sand.
Blue hippo tang was hiding and breathing heavy. I attached a video of her about half an hour before she passed.
Scopas tang is now in quarantine struggling very hard (attached video).
We decided to move our clownfish pair back into quarantine as well.

So now everyone’s in there and I’m pretty sure scopas is… beyond helping.

I was told by our LFS that it looks like a combination of lack of oxygen in the water and internal parasites. We were advised to move everyone back to QT for 2-6 weeks and treat with Coppersafe at 5.0, and were given an air stone to put in the QT.

I’m posting with the hopes that I can help our scopas (I know odds are low), and see what medication is recommended for this situation, and see if anyone might have more insight into what has happened to our fish.

Thank you in advance for advice and help.

1. It would be nice to see your parameters (today)?
2. The treatment with copper may not have been adequate. Did you frequently test levels?
3. You're buying a lot of fish 'quickly' - and my guess - is that you had a failed QT - and this is some disease - or an oxygen issue. Do you have inverts in the tank - if so - are they ok (if so - its not as likely to be a toxin/oxygen issue). DO you have a nice picture of the tank under white light? Are you using a skimmer?

EDIT - I cannot see the Mov files. Can you post to Youtube?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Temp 77.5
Salinity 35
Nitrite 0
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 10
Tank size 180 gallons
Sump 50 gallons

We bought a blue hippo tang and scopas tang from Petco, and shortly after noticed ich. We had put both into our main tank, so decided to pull all fish and quarantine with Fritz Coppersafe at a level of 2.0, and let our MT fallow for 70 days.

We slowly added our fish back in about two weeks ago, and everyone has been doing fine.

Day before yesterday we bought a flame angel and annularis angel, put them in quarantine, and I’ve been slowly upping the dose of Coppersafe as a preventative
Yesterday we bought 2 wavemakers (Jebao MCP-150), and removed the two powerheads (idk what brand, got them off Amazon over a year ago).


Woke up
and our coral beauty was dead in the sand.
Blue hippo tang was hiding and breathing heavy. I attached a video of her about half an hour before she passed.
Scopas tang is now in quarantine struggling very hard (attached video).
We decided to move our clownfish pair back into quarantine as well.

So now everyone’s in there and I’m pretty sure scopas is… beyond helping.

I was told by our LFS that it looks like a combination of lack of oxygen in the water and internal parasites. We were advised to move everyone back to QT for 2-6 weeks and treat with Coppersafe at 5.0, and were given an air stone to put in the QT.

I’m posting with the hopes that I can help our scopas (I know odds are low), and see what medication is recommended for this situation, and see if anyone might have more insight into what has happened to our fish.

Thank you in advance for advice and help.

S T O P !!!

Water is cloudy and I believe No way does this water have true readings but false readings - What test kits are you using?
Second- The copper level of 2.0 is not enough IF ich is the issue but at least 2.25-2.5. I would not have added any new fish until at least 3-4 weeks after assurance tank is back to normal.

What is age of tank?

Lack of oxygen is a good possibility and again the zero ammonia makes no sense.
LFS said 5.0 copper? That is twice the therapuetic level recommended and toxic- these fish will perish.

The tangs are both moribund and and in High distress and have a low chance of survival. For sure do at least 30% water change and add oxygen with use of air stone.

Also the videos are very Low light and need new ones under white lighting to clearly see the fish

 

[MnFish1]

S T O P !!!

Water is cloudy and I believe No way does this water have true readings abutfalse readings - What test kits are you using?
Second- The copper level of 2.0 is not enough IF ich is the issue but at least 2.25-2.5. I would not have added any new fish until at least 3-4 weeks after assurance tank is back to normal.

What is age of tank?

Lack of oxygen is a good possibility and again the zero ammonia makes no sense.
LFS said 5.0 copper? That is twice the therapuetic level recommended and toxic- these fish will perish.

The tangs are both moribund and and in High distress and have a low chance of survival. For sure do at least 30% water change and add oxygen with use of air stone.

Also the videos are very Low light and need new ones under white lighting to clearly see the fish

Where did you see the picture? - OH the mov files - I cannot see them. You're correct - I think we were posting at the same time. STOP is the key word here

 

[Pistondog]

Do you run a skimmer?

 

[StarfoxForever]

1. It would be nice to see your parameters (today)?
2. The treatment with copper may not have been adequate. Did you frequently test levels?
3. You're buying a lot of fish 'quickly' - and my guess - is that you had a failed QT - and this is some disease - or an oxygen issue. Do you have inverts in the tank - if so - are they ok (if so - its not as likely to be a toxin/oxygen issue). DO you have a nice picture of the tank under white light? Are you using a skimmer?

EDIT - I cannot see the Mov files. Can you post to Youtube?

1. Those were parameters taken this morning, from the MT not the QT
2. I tested levels every day for the first 3 weeks of their quarantine, and then every 2 days to ensure it stayed at 2.0 until we reached 70 days
3. We had a pair of clowns and the coral beauty for months before buying the blue hippo and scopas. They've all been in the QT until 2 weeks ago. We added in the clowns and the coral beauty to the MT first, then a week later added the scopas and the blue hippo tang. During all of this we have done water changes of 30 gallons every other day, and have been doing that while testing parameters every day. There was a slight ammonia spike, and slight nitrate spike, but 3 days ago ammonia went down and nitrate has been at 10. We bought the flame and annularis and had them in QT, with the intention of keeping them there for 30 days with Coppersafe treatment. I agree we were quick to throw the scopas and clowns in there today, but were also following the directions of our LFS (not Petco for the record lol) to put them in there with an air stone. We do have inverts in the MT: 2 urchins, idk how many hermits, 5-8 I think?, 1 large turbo snail, 1 purple reef lobster, and...10-15? maybe 20? nassarius snails, and 1 fighting conch (sorry for the estimates, it's hard to tell. I know we've bought 20 nassarius along with empty shells for the hermits, and the hermits have been around for over a year). Yes, I have a protein skimmer, we clean it every 2-3 days, and wash the filter socks every 3 days.

I will get you better pics of MT and QT. First post, sorry it's sloppy! Thanks for your reply.

 

[StarfoxForever]

S T O P !!!

Water is cloudy and I believe No way does this water have true readings but false readings - What test kits are you using?
Second- The copper level of 2.0 is not enough IF ich is the issue but at least 2.25-2.5. I would not have added any new fish until at least 3-4 weeks after assurance tank is back to normal.

What is age of tank?

Lack of oxygen is a good possibility and again the zero ammonia makes no sense.
LFS said 5.0 copper? That is twice the therapuetic level recommended and toxic- these fish will perish.

The tangs are both moribund and and in High distress and have a low chance of survival. For sure do at least 30% water change and add oxygen with use of air stone.

Also the videos are very Low light and need new ones under white lighting to clearly see the fish

Test kit is API Marine Saltwater Test Kit, and Hanna Instruments Copper test kit.
I had Googled the level for the Coppersafe, and found that therapeutic level was at least 2.0, so that's where I got that number. Blue hippo and scopas stopped showing signs of ich about a week and a half into quarantine. LFS has now advised 5.0, which is the first I heard of anything higher than 2.0.
Age of the tank is 3 months. We had an issue with our 125 (that tank was a year old) (started leaking in 5+ places all at once overnight), LFS hooked us up with a Neptunian Cube M180, and we used a bottle of the quick start stuff. It cycled quickly (3 weeks), after which we slowly added our corals and inverts back in over the course of 2 months. When our fish in QT reached 70 days (tank was about 2.5 months old at that point), we added the clown pair and coral beauty into the MT.

I will add better video and pics under white light.

Thank you for your reply!

 

[StarfoxForever]

Do you run a skimmer?

Yes. I will add a pic.

 

[StarfoxForever]

For everyone that asked for pics!

 

[StarfoxForever]

* We just bought the lights at the same time as the wavemakers, still figuring out how to use them in the app, so I apologize if that isn't 100% white light on the MT.

Scopas moved himself from one side of the tank to the other to be under that log next to the air stone.

 

[StarfoxForever]

S T O P !!!

Water is cloudy and I believe No way does this water have true readings but false readings - What test kits are you using?
Second- The copper level of 2.0 is not enough IF ich is the issue but at least 2.25-2.5. I would not have added any new fish until at least 3-4 weeks after assurance tank is back to normal.

What is age of tank?

Lack of oxygen is a good possibility and again the zero ammonia makes no sense.
LFS said 5.0 copper? That is twice the therapuetic level recommended and toxic- these fish will perish.

The tangs are both moribund and and in High distress and have a low chance of survival. For sure do at least 30% water change and add oxygen with use of air stone.

Also the videos are very Low light and need new ones under white lighting to clearly see the fish

What do you recommend I do for my scopas? I don't want him to suffer if he is beyond help. He is currently tucked under a decorative log next to the air stone, still breathing heavy. I've never had to put a fish out of its misery, I don't know what is considered humane.

 

[StarfoxForever]

Do you run a skimmer?

 

[StarfoxForever]

1. It would be nice to see your parameters (today)?
2. The treatment with copper may not have been adequate. Did you frequently test levels?
3. You're buying a lot of fish 'quickly' - and my guess - is that you had a failed QT - and this is some disease - or an oxygen issue. Do you have inverts in the tank - if so - are they ok (if so - its not as likely to be a toxin/oxygen issue). DO you have a nice picture of the tank under white light? Are you using a skimmer?

EDIT - I cannot see the Mov files. Can you post to Youtube?

I uploaded more pics and a video to imgur:

Let me know if that works.

 

[StarfoxForever]

I wanted to add that from the moment we added our clownfish pair and the coral beauty, we did 30 gallon water changes every other day to ensure the water quality stayed good (the blue hippo tang in particular we knew would add a lot to the bio load because she pooped a lot). Our last water change was the day before yesterday, so we would have done another today, except we woke up to find our coral beauty dead in the sand.

Also, all of our fish are young. Clownfish are about 2 years old and around 2 inches long, coral beauty never grew while we had her so I don't know her true age but she was about 4 inches long, and the scopas and blue hippo we bought when they were less than an inch long. I don't know if that information is relevant - just wanted to add that these fish are all pretty little. Scopas is our biggest fish currently and he's about 3-4 inches long now.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The video of the blue tang shows it piping at the surface and the water’s surface is very still. You mentioned changing out the pumps - did that coincide with this issue? If so, get some strong aeration in there to see if that helps.

I also saw something about dosing coppersafe at 5? That’s double the normal dose, way too high IMO.

Jay

 

[Pistondog]

A skimmer oxygenates the water probably better than an airstone. Both are good.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I wanted to add that from the moment we added our clownfish pair and the coral beauty, we did 30 gallon water changes every other day to ensure the water quality stayed good (the blue hippo tang in particular we knew would add a lot to the bio load because she pooped a lot). Our last water change was the day before yesterday, so we would have done another today, except we woke up to find our coral beauty dead in the sand.

Also, all of our fish are young. Clownfish are about 2 years old and around 2 inches long, coral beauty never grew while we had her so I don't know her true age but she was about 4 inches long, and the scopas and blue hippo we bought when they were less than an inch long. I don't know if that information is relevant - just wanted to add that these fish are all pretty little. Scopas is our biggest fish currently and he's about 3-4 inches long now.

30 gallons changes are excessive. You can safely do 2-5 gal and still maintain lower ammonia and nitrate. Not an age factor but water quality in part.

 

[vetteguy53081]

What do you recommend I do for my scopas? I don't want him to suffer if he is beyond help. He is currently tucked under a decorative log next to the air stone, still breathing heavy. I've never had to put a fish out of its misery, I don't know what is considered humane.

If youre asking about euthanasia- I add to sandwhich bag and freeze.
Some flush and others have their own methods

 

[StarfoxForever]

The video of the blue tang shows it piping at the surface and the water’s surface is very still. You mentioned changing out the pumps - did that coincide with this issue? If so, get some strong aeration in there to see if that helps.

I also saw something about dosing coppersafe at 5? That’s double the normal dose, way too high IMO.

Jay

We have thought so, yes. Previously, we had two powerheads on each side of the tank. We 'upgraded' to two wavemakers on each side yesterday and took out the powerheads. This was the only change.

When we woke up and found the coral beauty dead in the sand, we both thought maybe one of the wavemakers kicked on while she was sleeping and blew her into a rock. But then we found the blue hippo tang hiding in the rocks, breathing heavy, and basically laying down. As the day progressed she just kinda flopped over into the sand and passed. I tested the parameters during her time of struggle and the results I got were: Salinity 35, Nitrite 0, Ammonia 0, Nitrate 10. Then the scopas began the heavy breathing, and not knowing what was going on, we moved him and the clownfish pair into quarantine. I went and bought an air stone and put it into the QT. Scopas is currently laying flat on the bottom, breathing very heavy. Clownfish are social and their normal selves.

 

[hexcolor reef]

Adding those wave makers is what did it. That happened to me before. Adding wave makers I believe shocks the fish if they weren’t already use to strong currents. Or could be an electrical issue from those wave makers.
night out ii actually is a product that helps condition fish to the environment. It’s used for new tank and aged tanks. Look it up. Next time each fish you add dose your tank with night out ii