All fish struggling to breathe at bottom of tank

[StarfoxForever]

30 gallons changes are excessive. You can safely do 2-5 gal and still maintain lower ammonia and nitrate. Not an age factor but water quality in part.

I understand.
My thought process behind that was: 15% of 180 gallons = 27 gallons. The bin I bought is 32 gallons. My goal was to control the bio load of putting the scopas and blue hippo tang in there a week after the clownfish pair and coral beauty. I figured 30 gallon water changes every other day would help manage that and avoid an issue.

I test the parameters every morning. Nitrite is always 0, ammonia swings between 0 and 0.25ppm (it’s sometimes 0.25 the day of water change, but not always…this morning it was 0), and nitrate swings between 5 and 20 (day of water change it’s usually 10, but once about a week ago it had spiked to 20 the day of water change, right after the two tangs were added). I haven’t seen it that high since. This morning nitrate was 10.

My eventual plan was 15% water change once a week, and then every other week for the 180 gallon.

The QT tank is 50 gallons and we normally change that water once a week, and it’s about 5-10 gallons of a water change.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I understand.
My thought process behind that was: 15% of 180 gallons = 27 gallons. The bin I bought is 32 gallons. My goal was to control the bio load of putting the scopas and blue hippo tang in there a week after the clownfish pair and coral beauty. I figured 30 gallon water changes every other day would help manage that and avoid an issue.

I test the parameters every morning. Nitrite is always 0, ammonia swings between 0 and 0.25ppm (it’s sometimes 0.25 the day of water change, but not always…this morning it was 0), and nitrate swings between 5 and 20 (day of water change it’s usually 10, but once about a week ago it had spiked to 20 the day of water change, right after the two tangs were added). I haven’t seen it that high since. This morning nitrate was 10.

My eventual plan was 15% water change once a week, and then every other week for the 180 gallon.

The QT tank is 50 gallons and we normally change that water once a week, and it’s about 5-10 gallons of a water change.

How are you testing- what kits?

 

[StarfoxForever]

Adding those wave makers is what did it. That happened to me before. Adding wave makers I believe shocks the fish if they weren’t already use to strong currents. Or could be an electrical issue from those wave makers.
night out ii actually is a product that helps condition fish to the environment. It’s used for new tank and aged tanks. Look it up. Next time each fish you add dose your tank with night out ii

Depressing.

I noticed the clown pair didn’t sleep in their usual corner, and figured it was indeed because of the wavemakers. I turned them down as low as the controllers would let me before lights out.

How could I determine an electrical issue?

Thank you for the tip about Night Out! I’m looking it up.

 

[StarfoxForever]

How are you testing- what kits?

API Marine Saltwater Master Test Kit for pH, nitrite, ammonia, and nitrate. Hanna Instruments Copper HR handheld colorimeter for the copper.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Adding those wave makers is what did it. That happened to me before. Adding wave makers I believe shocks the fish if they weren’t already use to strong currents. Or could be an electrical issue from those wave makers.
night out ii actually is a product that helps condition fish to the environment. It’s used for new tank and aged tanks. Look it up. Next time each fish you add dose your tank with night out ii

New Wavemakers causing electrical currents and caused heavy breathing and toxins despite improper treatment of copper and many changes?
Night out is 40% water and 60% sodium carbonate- This is a savior? Its less than Prime and Amquel in content and is merely a denitrifyer. Fish are resistant with high current and these fish did not get this overnight - they are thin and weakened

 

[vetteguy53081]

API Marine Saltwater Master Test Kit for pH, nitrite, ammonia, and nitrate. Hanna Instruments Copper HR handheld colorimeter for the copper.

I suspected this kit. Please as soon as you can, take a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at. Especially with ammonia- Api often at zero when numbers are higher.

 

[hexcolor reef]

Depressing.

I noticed the clown pair didn’t sleep in their usual corner, and figured it was indeed because of the wavemakers. I turned them down as low as the controllers would let me before lights out.

How could I determine an electrical issue?

Thank you for the tip about Night Out! I’m looking it up.

Always look at what changed in your tank before you start seeing changes with your fish.

just check to see if any wires are exposed, one decent once over on your equipment. That’s all.

 

[hexcolor reef]

New Wavemakers causing electrical currents and caused heavy breathing and toxins despite improper treatment of copper and many changes?
Night out is 40% water and 60% sodium carbonate- This is a savior? Its less than Prime and Amquel in content and is merely a denitrifyer. Fish are resistant with high current and these fish did not get this overnight - they are thin and weakened

Night out is a beneficial bacteria, regardless of water and sodium content in the product. The fact is it works 100%.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Night out is a beneficial bacteria, regardless of water and sodium content in the product. The fact is it works 100%.

Glad im not putting this in my tanks and reason I took all Microbe -lift product off my store shelves. It is sodium
See safety data- This stuff is dangerous.

 

[StarfoxForever]

I have a sad update: scopas has passed.

Current fish in QT:
Clownfish pair, ~ 2 inches in length, estimated 2 years old.
Flame angel, ~2-3 inches in length, idk his age.
Annularis angel, ~2-3 inches in length, idk age but obviously a juvenile because of its coloring.

I will post update on QT parameters in the morning.

Any advice welcome on how to adjust the fish in QT to the flow of the wavemakers. I’m assuming now it’s the stress of that change that did them all in somehow. That, and us removing the powerheads, resulting in the oxygen level plummeting.

Feels bad, guys. Thank you to everyone who has replied. We are beginners with less than 2 years of saltwater experience… but I appreciate this forum and everyone on it, and will continue to post so we can improve and ensure our tank is healthy and happy.

Thanks everyone.

 

[StarfoxForever]

I suspected this kit. Please as soon as you can, take a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at. Especially with ammonia- Api often at zero when numbers are higher.

Thank you for this advice. I will do this tomorrow.

What test kits do you recommend? We’ve been using this one for over a year, and haven’t explored other test kits.

An Apex system is an eventual goal of ours, but pricey, so it’ll have to wait a bit.

 

[StarfoxForever]

Always look at what changed in your tank before you start seeing changes with your fish.

just check to see if any wires are exposed, one decent once over on your equipment. That’s all.

Thank you. Will do.

 

[Spare time]

Any LFS employee that says run coppersafe at 5.0ppm should not be trusted. They are either making things up on the spot or have really really bad references

 

[StarfoxForever]

I don’t know if it matters, but right before the blue hippo tang passed, I noticed her color was bad… she was turning white. I don’t have a picture of that, but as I pulled out scopas out, I noticed his coloring was turning white as well. I did NOT see this on our coral beauty, so not sure if it’s a tang thing, specific to the cause of death, or just something that happens to most fish when they pass. Wanted to post in case someone has info about it.

 

[StarfoxForever]

Any LFS employee that says run coppersafe at 5.0ppm should not be trusted. They are either making things up on the spot or have really really bad references

I suspected this. I’ve heard and read 2.0 is therapeutic level, and someone earlier suggested 2.25-2.50 is the therapeutic level for ich. I’m glad I didn’t run home and dose it up. I’ve been slowly ramping it up over the past two days and this morning it was 1.87 (tested with Hanna Instruments handheld colorimeter).

 

[hexcolor reef]

I don’t know if it matters, but right before the blue hippo tang passed, I noticed her color was bad… she was turning white. I don’t have a picture of that, but as I pulled out scopas out, I noticed his coloring was turning white as well. I did NOT see this on our coral beauty, so not sure if it’s a tang thing, specific to the cause of death, or just something that happens to most fish when they pass. Wanted to post in case someone has info about it.

It happened due to lack of oxygen and shock. You probably noticed some physical shock to the fish as it was happening . The fish turns white as it does and gets its color back

 

[StarfoxForever]

It happened due to lack of oxygen and shock. You probably noticed some physical shock to the fish as it was happening . The fish turns white as it does and gets its color back

Ugh. Sad. Thank you for your response.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have a sad update: scopas has passed.

Current fish in QT:
Clownfish pair, ~ 2 inches in length, estimated 2 years old.
Flame angel, ~2-3 inches in length, idk his age.
Annularis angel, ~2-3 inches in length, idk age but obviously a juvenile because of its coloring.

I will post update on QT parameters in the morning.

Any advice welcome on how to adjust the fish in QT to the flow of the wavemakers. I’m assuming now it’s the stress of that change that did them all in somehow. That, and us removing the powerheads, resulting in the oxygen level plummeting.

Feels bad, guys. Thank you to everyone who has replied. We are beginners with less than 2 years of saltwater experience… but I appreciate this forum and everyone on it, and will continue to post so we can improve and ensure our tank is healthy and happy.

Thanks everyone.

Aim wavemakers Towards- not at the surface and assure salinity-temp-ph and ammonia are in safe range. As mentioned0 the scopas was moribund. Hold off for a while with any additions and take the time to perfect the tank for re-introduction which I would not do for at least 8 weeks. A reliable test kit goes a long way, but the water sample you take to LFS will determine where you are at. Assure they are not using API readings or even spin test

 

[Jay Hemdal]

We have thought so, yes. Previously, we had two powerheads on each side of the tank. We 'upgraded' to two wavemakers on each side yesterday and took out the powerheads. This was the only change.

When we woke up and found the coral beauty dead in the sand, we both thought maybe one of the wavemakers kicked on while she was sleeping and blew her into a rock. But then we found the blue hippo tang hiding in the rocks, breathing heavy, and basically laying down. As the day progressed she just kinda flopped over into the sand and passed. I tested the parameters during her time of struggle and the results I got were: Salinity 35, Nitrite 0, Ammonia 0, Nitrate 10. Then the scopas began the heavy breathing, and not knowing what was going on, we moved him and the clownfish pair into quarantine. I went and bought an air stone and put it into the QT. Scopas is currently laying flat on the bottom, breathing very heavy. Clownfish are social and their normal selves.

Well then, I can’t rule out low oxygen/high carbon dioxide in this case. Breaking the surface tension of the water is vital, oil from the food can build up on the still water surface and cut off gas exchange. The biggest issue happens at night when the photosynthetic organisms go into reverse phase and start taking up oxygen instead of giving it off.

Edit: however it looks like fish are continuing to die after being moved to a higher oxygen environment, that should happen with simple low DO issues….so I can’t rule out Amyloodinium here.

Jay

 

[Tamberav]

I wonder if the LFS meant cupramine at 0.5 and not copper safe at 5.0. I wouldn’t put it passed them to not know the difference between different copper treatments nor would I be surprised if they said “five” meaning point 5. I often see curpamine for sale in LFS and even Petco, a lot more than the other copper products.

Just a thought.