All for reef - alk good, calcium way high

[gregrock68]

Hi Randy - you were a great help in the past with a low phosphate issue I had, your remedy was spot on! Thank you. Now I have another issue I am trying to resolve. I am trying to under why my calcium is running high at 579, but my alk tests show 9 dkh. I maintain my alk + or -.5 dkh. It seems like it has always run high with AFR, and if I am not mistaken the method of AFR was to set the dkh level, then the calcium would adjust accordingly. I do water changes biweekly of approx 15% on a 40 gallon AIO. I use the Tropic Marin classic, but no matter what I do the calcium stays elevated. Everything is growing well, sps, LPS etc but I have struggled with mushrooms in general (maybe this is the issue??) Corraline algea growth has slowed significantly, could it be that my strontium and or magnesium could be lacking which is inhibiting the calcium uptake? I am a novice so throwing out some thoughts.

How can I increase my burn rate if calcium and lower it at the same time if possible?

All suggestions are appreciated from all! Thanks my R2R friends!

 

[rishma]

AFR adds about 10% too much calcium so it builds over time. I’ve had calcium in the same range as your current level, never an issue. If you want it to come down, you can dose alkalinity only (like baking soda) for a while and the tank will consume it.

A tank consumes about 18-20 ppm calcium for every 2.8 dKH so you figure out how long you’ll want dose alkalinity only get calcium to your target level.

 

[rtparty]

I would be very skeptical of the Hanna calcium reading. Have you confirmed the result with other tests?

 

[jimk60]

Hi Randy - you were a great help in the past with a low phosphate issue I had, your remedy was spot on! Thank you. Now I have another issue I am trying to resolve. I am trying to under why my calcium is running high at 579, but my alk tests show 9 dkh. I maintain my alk + or -.5 dkh. It seems like it has always run high with AFR, and if I am not mistaken the method of AFR was to set the dkh level, then the calcium would adjust accordingly. I do water changes biweekly of approx 15% on a 40 gallon AIO. I use the Tropic Marin classic, but no matter what I do the calcium stays elevated. Everything is growing well, sps, LPS etc but I have struggled with mushrooms in general (maybe this is the issue??) Corraline algea growth has slowed significantly, could it be that my strontium and or magnesium could be lacking which is inhibiting the calcium uptake? I am a novice so throwing out some thoughts.

How can I increase my burn rate if calcium and lower it at the same time if possible?

All suggestions are appreciated from all! Thanks my R2R friends!

Funny you mention coralline algae. I started AFR about six months ago and have noticed a slow but steady decline in my coralline. I hadn't heard of this related to AFR but suspected it was. This might not be a bad thing!

 

[fishface NJ]

Funny you mention coralline algae. I started AFR about six months ago and have noticed a slow but steady decline in my coralline. I hadn't heard of this related to AFR but suspected it was. This might not be a bad thing!

Last week I dismantled my tank for my upgrade in size. I had also noticed that my coralline had declined since starting AFR. All the acros were doing well.

 

[rishma]

Coraline is a pest in my tank. I’ve used AFR for years

 

[Miami Reef]

The solution is simple. Use AFR to maintain alkalinity. If calcium ever reaches around 500–550 ppm, switch to only using sodium ash or baking soda until the calcium drops back down through consumption. Then restart the AFR. Rinse. Repeat.

Calcium increases with AFR is a very slow process, so this method works perfectly.

You’d only need to test calcium once a month or so. It’s very hands-off.

 

[fandaga]

i have the same issue in a 47 gallon AIO tank and actually dose sodium carbonate and AFR separately to maintain alk at 7.5 and calcium at 450. I monitor with a trident and then also periodically test with Hanna checkers, as well as ICP from Fauna. I watched a BRS interview with Lou Ekus from TM a while ago, and he said that some tanks may need to add more alk when using AFR. I don’t know if the reason for this behavior is well understood.

 

[twentyleagues]

i have the same issue in a 47 gallon AIO tank and actually dose sodium carbonate and AFR separately to maintain alk at 7.5 and calcium at 450. I monitor with a trident and then also periodically test with Hanna checkers, as well as ICP from Fauna. I watched a BRS interview with Lou Ekus from TM a while ago, and he said that some tanks may need to add more alk when using AFR. I don’t know if the reason for this behavior is well understood.

It is actually well understood. AFR like kalwasser will be slightly heavy on calcium meaning that there is slightly more calcium in it than what the known usage is of calcium to alk. So given enough time the calcium will rise, and measures need to be taken. Both @rishma and @Miami Reef have stated as much above. This rise in calcium would be on the magnitude of a year or more depending on the amount used, water volume and target calcium levels. I can say I have been using afr for nearly 2 years and I have only done maybe 4 water changes in the last 1.5 years. My calcium is still in the 440-460 range which is slightly elevated from my "goal" of 420-440.

@gregrock68 I would check calcium with a different test method to insure you get the same or close readings. Doing 15% wc biweekly with salt that is lower in calcium should be more than sufficient to keep this small rise from getting overwhelming.

 

[gregrock68]

AFR adds about 10% too much calcium so it builds over time. I’ve had calcium in the same range as your current level, never an issue. If you want it to come down, you can dose alkalinity only (like baking soda) for a while and the tank will consume it.

A tank consumes about 18-20 ppm calcium for every 2.8 dKH so you figure out how long you’ll want dose alkalinity only get calcium to your target level.

Interesting. I have never heard that. I am going to look and see if I have a salifert test kit to double check. I tested it with the Hannah tester and I think the Hannah calcium checkers are pretty good for calcium from what I recall , but always good to check with another brand

I would be very skeptical of the Hanna calcium reading. Have you confirmed the result with other tests?

Not yet, but plan on testing today. I have a salifert kit I can cross reference with against the Hannah

 

[twentyleagues]

Interesting. I have never heard that. I am going to look and see if I have a salifert test kit to double check. I tested it with the Hannah tester and I think the Hannah calcium checkers are pretty good for calcium from what I recall , but always good to check with another brand

Not yet, but plan on testing today. I have a salifert kit I can cross reference with against the Hannah

Hannahs accuracy depend on the source waters purity.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Interesting. I have never heard that. I am going to look and see if I have a salifert test kit to double check. I tested it with the Hannah tester and I think the Hannah calcium checkers are pretty good for calcium from what I recall , but always good to check with another brand

Not yet, but plan on testing today. I have a salifert kit I can cross reference with against the Hannah

Regular water changes can keep the excess calcium in check, especially if it is not a high calcium mix to start.

 

[cuylerhanna]

I would be very skeptical of the Hanna calcium reading. Have you confirmed the result with other tests?

I concur... I've tested my Hanna Marine Master against Salifert and my Trident. The Salifert and Trident were both very similar, and the Hanna is consistently way higher/lower.

 

[BryanM]

Hi Randy - you were a great help in the past with a low phosphate issue I had, your remedy was spot on! Thank you. Now I have another issue I am trying to resolve. I am trying to under why my calcium is running high at 579, but my alk tests show 9 dkh. I maintain my alk + or -.5 dkh. It seems like it has always run high with AFR, and if I am not mistaken the method of AFR was to set the dkh level, then the calcium would adjust accordingly. I do water changes biweekly of approx 15% on a 40 gallon AIO. I use the Tropic Marin classic, but no matter what I do the calcium stays elevated. Everything is growing well, sps, LPS etc but I have struggled with mushrooms in general (maybe this is the issue??) Corraline algea growth has slowed significantly, could it be that my strontium and or magnesium could be lacking which is inhibiting the calcium uptake? I am a novice so throwing out some thoughts.

How can I increase my burn rate if calcium and lower it at the same time if possible?

All suggestions are appreciated from all! Thanks my R2R friends!

I just went through this and have switched to baking soda to maintain alk and I have stopped dosing AFR.

It seems technically AFR should be dosed based on calc. But in 1.5 years of dosing my calc is now 550, so I had to make a change to stop the rise.

 

[rishma]

I just went through this and have switched to baking soda to maintain alk and I have stopped dosing AFR.

It seems technically AFR should be dosed based on calc. But in 1.5 years of dosing my calc is now 550, so I had to make a change to stop the rise.

If you dosed AFR based on calcium, your alkalinity would be low. Thats likely more of an issue than calcium being high. Plus, calcium tests are less reliable so test error would make it harder to know the correct dose.

 

[BryanM]

If you dosed AFR based on calcium, your alkalinity would be low. Thats likely more of an issue than calcium being high. Plus, calcium tests are less reliable so test error would make it harder to know the correct dose.

In my case, calc numbers confirmed going up with consecutive ICP tests results.

 

[rishma]

If you dosed AFR based on calcium, your alkalinity would be low. Thats likely more of an issue than calcium being high. Plus, calcium tests are less reliable so test error would make it harder to know the correct dose.

In my case, calc numbers confirmed going up with consecutive ICP tests results.

The to be clear, I expect calcium to go up and I have also seen it in my periodic ICP. My point was we use home tests to dial in the dose. Home calcium tests are less reliable than home alkalinity.

If you used ICP tests to dose based on calcium, your alkalinity would decline all the same.

 

[BryanM]

The to be clear, I expect calcium to go up and I have also seen it in my periodic ICP. My point was we use home tests to dial in the dose. Home calcium tests are less reliable than home alkalinity.

If you used ICP tests to dose based on calcium, your alkalinity would decline all the same.

I can only report on what I've been told and think is true, and the idea that any other way of dosing AFR generally increases calcium levels due to its makeup says there's logic here in dosing AFR based on calcium.

It is not ideal at all, I agree, since home calcium testing is not easy or all that accurate.

Either way, I stopped AFR, started baking soda for ALK, and will be dosing TM A and K for a while and I'll let calcium settle back down.

I am leaning towards going to moonshiners long term.

 

[rishma]

The to be clear, I expect calcium to go up and I have also seen it in my periodic ICP. My point was we use home tests to dial in the dose. Home calcium tests are less reliable than home alkalinity.

If you used ICP tests to dose based on calcium, your alkalinity would decline all the same.

I can only report on what I've been told and think is true, and the idea that any other way of dosing AFR generally increases calcium levels due to its makeup says there's logic here in dosing AFR based on calcium.

It is not ideal at all, I agree, since home calcium testing is not easy or all that accurate.

Either way, I stopped AFR, started baking soda for ALK, and will be dosing TM A and K for a while and I'll let calcium settle back down.

I am leaning towards going to moonshiners long term.

I am not sure I understand your point. If you dose based on calcium your alkalinity will decline over time. That might be ok and one could supplement alkalinity separately. All good.

Either approach is imperfect. I think rising calcium is less of a concern than falling alkalinity but we could disagree on that.

 

[rhitee93]

I guess I chose the more difficult pathway, but my Alk and Ca have remained pretty steady for the last several months.

I dose 36ml/day of AFR and have tweaked that number to maintain the Ca level I want (450ppm) I then supplement with 7ml/day of Part B to keep my alk at 8.5.

In my case I had extra dosing heads sitting unused as well as space in my dosing container so it wasn't a big deal to dose another juice.