All my fish died
- Thread starter JoshuaJames95
- Start date
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Does the tank have good flow/oxygen? Could the power have went out? Swimming near the top can be a sign of a fish trying to get more oxygen.
Velvet does not effect coral or inverts.
Velvet does not effect coral or inverts.
JoshuaJames95
Community Member
I really appreciate you taking time to help me.
My tank is around 3 months old and has just come out of the 'ugly stage' I had the brown algea which covered my rocks for a few days and after that i had the green algea which covered my sand glass and rocks, because of this i did have my hands in the tank a lot cleaning. But the fish died maybe a few days after the ugly stage had passed. I buy my salt and RO water from a well ran fish shop.
I have a refractometer and the brand of my test kit is JBL. Here are the test results I did the morning i woke up and found the fish had died;
PH: 8.1
KH:7
Ammonia: 0.05
Nitrite: 0.025
Nitrate: 0.5
Phosphate: 0.05
Salinity: 1.024
The fish had been in the tank for weeks prior to this disaster. One thing i did not do is dip the corals. I only have 1 tank so i can not quarantine the fish i add
I didnt notice my tang scratching himself on rocks but his body after I could him out the next day could suggest he was. I did notice him swimming at the surface of the water slowly the night before he died, which was quite out of character as hes usually quite timid and stays close to the rocks
All 3 fish were feeding fine and it didnt seem like they lost any weight.
I didnt get a chance to see what was happening with the tang and goby as they died suddenly through the night but my wrasse took a further day to eventually die. He was lying on the sand on his side breathing heavily. At first i thought he was dead so tried to get him out but he swam into hiding and stayed there for a while before eventually falling back to the sand, he then died through the night
Once again, thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Josh
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JoshuaJames95
Community Member
Id say the tank has good flow yes, i have a return pump with 2 outlets from the sump and 1 power head.
How long would you say velvet would take to kill fish. for example if the frags were carrying it and i added it to my tank could it kill my fish as fast as 1 day?
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All signs point to velvet which at times not visible up front as opposed to ich.
You said you had fish several weeks prior to death but tank was 3 months old. Am I to understand these were introduced week 2-3 and were practically your first fish ?
I would seriously look/examine the water you are purchasing as there are many cases of LFS water being bad without THEM even realizing it, not to say Cause.
How were these fish acclimated/introduced and for how long?
My suspect- Velver ot foreign substance/contamination when the frags were introduced ( I believe Tanberav suggested that also)
You said you had fish several weeks prior to death but tank was 3 months old. Am I to understand these were introduced week 2-3 and were practically your first fish ?
I would seriously look/examine the water you are purchasing as there are many cases of LFS water being bad without THEM even realizing it, not to say Cause.
How were these fish acclimated/introduced and for how long?
My suspect- Velver ot foreign substance/contamination when the frags were introduced ( I believe Tanberav suggested that also)
JoshuaJames95
Community Member
I cycled my tank for about 6 weeks then added fish every couple of weeks. Id say ive had my tank just under 4 months. These were my first fish yes.
My acclimating is pretty much non existent to be honest,I dont treat with any sort of chemicals, i put the bag in the water to get to the same temp then add some of my water to the bag with the fish in a few times and then take the fish out the bag into the tank and throw away the water in the bag. Ive got a feeling youre going to tell me how stupid I am haha.
ying yang
2500 Club Member
Hi there,hope all is well,sorry about your fish loss ,a few experienced guys and gals giving you some great advice and will say hello to someone living in my city ^_^
By sounds of it if had big fish casualities all at once,maybe good idea to fallow tank like been advised and just add some cuc or corals, shrimp for few months just to have something to look at and activity in tank ,if cant pin point how the fish died all at once say by using furniture polish on the glass or spraying air freshener in room near tank or even scented candles ive heard of possible culprits why killed off inhabitants of a tank ( mrs didn't take to kindly to me saying see that scented candle on sideboard next to tank,you can't have it no more lol ) But wish you best of luck going forward with your tank .
We've got quite a few good lfs near us to choose from.i not had bad experiences anyway ( apart from 1 sick clown fish bought at begginning )
By sounds of it if had big fish casualities all at once,maybe good idea to fallow tank like been advised and just add some cuc or corals, shrimp for few months just to have something to look at and activity in tank ,if cant pin point how the fish died all at once say by using furniture polish on the glass or spraying air freshener in room near tank or even scented candles ive heard of possible culprits why killed off inhabitants of a tank ( mrs didn't take to kindly to me saying see that scented candle on sideboard next to tank,you can't have it no more lol ) But wish you best of luck going forward with your tank .
We've got quite a few good lfs near us to choose from.i not had bad experiences anyway ( apart from 1 sick clown fish bought at begginning )
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Best action would be to turn the heat up a bit and do not add any fish for at least 45 days. The heat is to speed up any parasites lifecycle.
Unfortunately disease is a huge problem in this hobby in new tanks. Velvet being a scary one as it can wipe out an entire tank of fish in short order.
It is better to play it safe in do this in case it was disease. There is no 100% way of knowing without gill clips and skin scrapes and a microscope. Even then I think the fish needs to be more freshly dead.
Unfortunately disease is a huge problem in this hobby in new tanks. Velvet being a scary one as it can wipe out an entire tank of fish in short order.
It is better to play it safe in do this in case it was disease. There is no 100% way of knowing without gill clips and skin scrapes and a microscope. Even then I think the fish needs to be more freshly dead.
JoshuaJames95
Community Member
Thank you for your reply and advice. I was heart broken when I woke up, I thought i had done everything right but have since learnt many things I was doing wrong, i suppose thats a good thing. Id be interested to learn what you and other experienced reefers do when adding new fish and corals to tanks. I dont have another tank to quarantine so thats not an option for me
afrokobe
Valuable Member
I am in the same boat as you unfortunately. I just lost all my fish to a velvet outbreak, a few days ago, due to me not quarantining. I had started with captive bred fish and then decided to pick up a flame angel at a lfs about two weeks ago. The flame angel almost immediately starting showing signs of velvet, died the next day and within a few days, pretty much all of the fish are died or dying.
When I started my tank, I had a great plan. Buy already QT'ed fish from TSM/Dr. Reef, but once I put a pair of captive clowns in my tank, impatience took hold and my plan was ripped up. I started buying random fish from LFS and thats introduced diseases into my system. Lesson learned, an expensive one, is to be patient with this hobby. Going forward I will be buying only captive bred or pre QT'ed fish. If the space permits, I would like to set up a qt tank.
I also like to point out, everyone says to be patient with this hobby and it is 100% true. But if you are a person like me, sometimes you just need to make the mistake yourself before adhering to it.
You don't need a tank to quarantine fish. All you need is a bucket and an airstone and maybe couple pieces pvc or rock so they can feel more comfortable hiding. Can keep fish alive indefinitely in those if you are diligent about monitoring the water quality.
The whole setup with a 5g bucket takes less 2 feet of space.
ying yang
2500 Club Member
I'm new to saltwater side of things at 9 months so far from an experienced reefer ^_^
My plan at first was to qt all fish and add few different medications at different times taking quite a few weeks in qt tank then adding to dt once fish eating and no signs of diesese.
And have another separate qt tank just for all inverts ( corals,snails,shrimp,crabs etc) but this tank add no medication so just observational for several weeks so if any fish parasite cysts they would hatch then die as no fish present in tank and if any coral pests then could spot them and try my best to keep dipping and removing pests/ eggs etc and when confident no pests then add to dt so then dt stats pest/ parasite free.
Read lots and lots and quite frankly scared me and sounded like nearly all fish we buy is diesesed and pests galore on corals .
I have got a seperate all 56 litre tank running at all times incase needed and an empty 160 litre tank I needed which I started to qt when bought first 2 clownfish and one looked really ill after 30 minutes in tank ( looked great at lfs,maybe stress of being in bag and other fish bullying it in bag took it over edge) but anyway took them 2 back to lfs and got another 2 coownfish from same tank and put in qt/ hospital tank for 30 days and just did observational qt but after that done nearly complete turn around in my thinking ( sometimes think have I made right choice as gets confusing at times) but now I ring lfs and ask when next getting delivery of fish in and make sure I go day before this then fish usually been in tank at lfs for 4 days upto 6 days ,my thinking is some fish get so stressed from shipping from other side of world to exporters then importers then lfs then our tanks so let them have little rest and if going die they die in lfs tanks and go lfs few days before will buy fish and make sure been in lfs few days already then tell them to hold me usually 2 fish at a time ( so aggression shared out with rest of tank mates) and when go back to buy fish ask to see them eating and look the fish closely even getting camera out with zoom on looking for signs of diesese ( clamped fins,not eating ,swimming towards powerhead,hiding,tattered fins,spots,cuts,sores,getting bullied etc ) then come home and drip aclimate for 30 minutes ( check lfs water to make sure close sg of water) then add to tank .feed 90% fresh clams,oysters,scallops etc ( buy fresh then freeze) and rest frozen cubed from lfs and some algae sheets 2x a week and occasionally algae flakes
For corals I put in tank for 15 minutes floating bag to temp aclimintise then dip them and vigourously swirl coral in dip then put In container of my tank water and swish around then add to tank .
All cuc float bag and peg airline tubing from main dt to sump and cuc stay in bag and drip aclimintise from 30- 60 minutes depending what type it is then add to tank and turn lights off for an hour or so
Now not saying this is what you should do or shouldn't do as this your choice,but if you can't pin point what your fish died of then imo I would just put down to fish diesese then while your tank runs fallow ( empty) do lots research and decide if want to buy a seperate tank so can qt at least your fish when you buy fish again or don't qt new fish and possibly end up in same situation in next few months ,the decision is all yours ,there good arguments to medicate qt all new fish and good arguments to not ( I gone on far to much to even touch the surface lol)
Test regulary water for pH,nitrate,calcium,magnesium, phosphate, alkalinity,do 15% wc every week religiously, have 2 powerheads pointed to surface for good gas exchange and skimmer in sump and some rocks In sump and just try my best to enjoy my tank and so far so good,the amount of pods,micro fauna in my tank is unbelievable just from adding corals and probably get most enjoyment from after lights out lol.
Keep temp and sg stable and rest that's needed.
Buy cuc when needed when rocks and glass start showing that current cuc not keeping up and they all got a certain job to do and same with my fishes,they all bought as look cool but also to have a specific job ( except clowns but 4 year old wanted them )
Sorry for long post but there so much that I thinks needed to do to be successfully and could wrote 10 times more but would got stage no one would read it as to long lol.
Jay hemdal has good current diesese protocol if want to go down medicated qt route and good luck and most Importantly enjoy your tank ^_^
www.reef2reef.com
www.reef2reef.com
My plan at first was to qt all fish and add few different medications at different times taking quite a few weeks in qt tank then adding to dt once fish eating and no signs of diesese.
And have another separate qt tank just for all inverts ( corals,snails,shrimp,crabs etc) but this tank add no medication so just observational for several weeks so if any fish parasite cysts they would hatch then die as no fish present in tank and if any coral pests then could spot them and try my best to keep dipping and removing pests/ eggs etc and when confident no pests then add to dt so then dt stats pest/ parasite free.
Read lots and lots and quite frankly scared me and sounded like nearly all fish we buy is diesesed and pests galore on corals .
I have got a seperate all 56 litre tank running at all times incase needed and an empty 160 litre tank I needed which I started to qt when bought first 2 clownfish and one looked really ill after 30 minutes in tank ( looked great at lfs,maybe stress of being in bag and other fish bullying it in bag took it over edge) but anyway took them 2 back to lfs and got another 2 coownfish from same tank and put in qt/ hospital tank for 30 days and just did observational qt but after that done nearly complete turn around in my thinking ( sometimes think have I made right choice as gets confusing at times) but now I ring lfs and ask when next getting delivery of fish in and make sure I go day before this then fish usually been in tank at lfs for 4 days upto 6 days ,my thinking is some fish get so stressed from shipping from other side of world to exporters then importers then lfs then our tanks so let them have little rest and if going die they die in lfs tanks and go lfs few days before will buy fish and make sure been in lfs few days already then tell them to hold me usually 2 fish at a time ( so aggression shared out with rest of tank mates) and when go back to buy fish ask to see them eating and look the fish closely even getting camera out with zoom on looking for signs of diesese ( clamped fins,not eating ,swimming towards powerhead,hiding,tattered fins,spots,cuts,sores,getting bullied etc ) then come home and drip aclimate for 30 minutes ( check lfs water to make sure close sg of water) then add to tank .feed 90% fresh clams,oysters,scallops etc ( buy fresh then freeze) and rest frozen cubed from lfs and some algae sheets 2x a week and occasionally algae flakes
For corals I put in tank for 15 minutes floating bag to temp aclimintise then dip them and vigourously swirl coral in dip then put In container of my tank water and swish around then add to tank .
All cuc float bag and peg airline tubing from main dt to sump and cuc stay in bag and drip aclimintise from 30- 60 minutes depending what type it is then add to tank and turn lights off for an hour or so
Now not saying this is what you should do or shouldn't do as this your choice,but if you can't pin point what your fish died of then imo I would just put down to fish diesese then while your tank runs fallow ( empty) do lots research and decide if want to buy a seperate tank so can qt at least your fish when you buy fish again or don't qt new fish and possibly end up in same situation in next few months ,the decision is all yours ,there good arguments to medicate qt all new fish and good arguments to not ( I gone on far to much to even touch the surface lol)
Test regulary water for pH,nitrate,calcium,magnesium, phosphate, alkalinity,do 15% wc every week religiously, have 2 powerheads pointed to surface for good gas exchange and skimmer in sump and some rocks In sump and just try my best to enjoy my tank and so far so good,the amount of pods,micro fauna in my tank is unbelievable just from adding corals and probably get most enjoyment from after lights out lol.
Keep temp and sg stable and rest that's needed.
Buy cuc when needed when rocks and glass start showing that current cuc not keeping up and they all got a certain job to do and same with my fishes,they all bought as look cool but also to have a specific job ( except clowns but 4 year old wanted them )
Sorry for long post but there so much that I thinks needed to do to be successfully and could wrote 10 times more but would got stage no one would read it as to long lol.
Jay hemdal has good current diesese protocol if want to go down medicated qt route and good luck and most Importantly enjoy your tank ^_^
Current Quarantine Protocol
2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...
www.reef2reef.com
Fallow periods: Going Fishless
Please see this updated information on fallow periods: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/45-day-fallow-periods.805213/ Jay Hemdal 7/13/2023 The reason to go fallow (fishless) is to eliminate a fish disease from your DT (display tank). Going fallow works because you are denying the disease a...
www.reef2reef.com
JoshuaJames95
Community Member
I feel your pain mate. Sorry to hear about your fish. Thats one thing i was thinking of doing was buying a cheap fish and seeing what happens because im still not sure what caused my fish to die although all signs are pointing to velvet.I just didnt think anything was wrong with my fish which is confusing. I wonder if adding coral could introduce it or maybe it was just unfortunate timing. I really dont know. My LFS seems to be very well run and all their fish ad QT before they put them on the shop floor for customers to buy. Unfortunately they arent really helping me with this which is frustrating considering the amount of money ive spent in there.
I have definitely learnt from this experience, I think i need to start dipping my corals before putting them in the tank. I'd love to QT all my fish also but I only have 1 tank and no space for another. What do you think is a solution to that?
I QT my own fish or buy from QT venders. However you can try to mitigate disease by buying captive stock directly from breeders, looking up how to give fish peroxide baths before they go in your tank and avoiding disease magnet fish like Tangs until the tank is a year or two old.
JoshuaJames95
Community Member
Thanks for your reply its interesting seeing how other people do it. Ignorance was bliss for me being a beginner but it definitely sounds worth while getting a small QT tank (wish me luck trying to convince my other half).I'm new to saltwater side of things at 9 months so far from an experienced reefer ^_^
My plan at first was to qt all fish and add few different medications at different times taking quite a few weeks in qt tank then adding to dt once fish eating and no signs of diesese.
And have another separate qt tank just for all inverts ( corals,snails,shrimp,crabs etc) but this tank add no medication so just observational for several weeks so if any fish parasite cysts they would hatch then die as no fish present in tank and if any coral pests then could spot them and try my best to keep dipping and removing pests/ eggs etc and when confident no pests then add to dt so then dt stats pest/ parasite free.
Read lots and lots and quite frankly scared me and sounded like nearly all fish we buy is diesesed and pests galore on corals .
I have got a seperate all 56 litre tank running at all times incase needed and an empty 160 litre tank I needed which I started to qt when bought first 2 clownfish and one looked really ill after 30 minutes in tank ( looked great at lfs,maybe stress of being in bag and other fish bullying it in bag took it over edge) but anyway took them 2 back to lfs and got another 2 coownfish from same tank and put in qt/ hospital tank for 30 days and just did observational qt but after that done nearly complete turn around in my thinking ( sometimes think have I made right choice as gets confusing at times) but now I ring lfs and ask when next getting delivery of fish in and make sure I go day before this then fish usually been in tank at lfs for 4 days upto 6 days ,my thinking is some fish get so stressed from shipping from other side of world to exporters then importers then lfs then our tanks so let them have little rest and if going die they die in lfs tanks and go lfs few days before will buy fish and make sure been in lfs few days already then tell them to hold me usually 2 fish at a time ( so aggression shared out with rest of tank mates) and when go back to buy fish ask to see them eating and look the fish closely even getting camera out with zoom on looking for signs of diesese ( clamped fins,not eating ,swimming towards powerhead,hiding,tattered fins,spots,cuts,sores,getting bullied etc ) then come home and drip aclimate for 30 minutes ( check lfs water to make sure close sg of water) then add to tank .feed 90% fresh clams,oysters,scallops etc ( buy fresh then freeze) and rest frozen cubed from lfs and some algae sheets 2x a week and occasionally algae flakes
For corals I put in tank for 15 minutes floating bag to temp aclimintise then dip them and vigourously swirl coral in dip then put In container of my tank water and swish around then add to tank .
All cuc float bag and peg airline tubing from main dt to sump and cuc stay in bag and drip aclimintise from 30- 60 minutes depending what type it is then add to tank and turn lights off for an hour or so
Now not saying this is what you should do or shouldn't do as this your choice,but if you can't pin point what your fish died of then imo I would just put down to fish diesese then while your tank runs fallow ( empty) do lots research and decide if want to buy a seperate tank so can qt at least your fish when you buy fish again or don't qt new fish and possibly end up in same situation in next few months ,the decision is all yours ,there good arguments to medicate qt all new fish and good arguments to not ( I gone on far to much to even touch the surface lol)
Test regulary water for pH,nitrate,calcium,magnesium, phosphate, alkalinity,do 15% wc every week religiously, have 2 powerheads pointed to surface for good gas exchange and skimmer in sump and some rocks In sump and just try my best to enjoy my tank and so far so good,the amount of pods,micro fauna in my tank is unbelievable just from adding corals and probably get most enjoyment from after lights out lol.
Keep temp and sg stable and rest that's needed.
Buy cuc when needed when rocks and glass start showing that current cuc not keeping up and they all got a certain job to do and same with my fishes,they all bought as look cool but also to have a specific job ( except clowns but 4 year old wanted them )
Sorry for long post but there so much that I thinks needed to do to be successfully and could wrote 10 times more but would got stage no one would read it as to long lol.
Jay hemdal has good current diesese protocol if want to go down medicated qt route and good luck and most Importantly enjoy your tank ^_^
Current Quarantine Protocol
2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...
Fallow periods: Going Fishless
Please see this updated information on fallow periods: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/45-day-fallow-periods.805213/ Jay Hemdal 7/13/2023 The reason to go fallow (fishless) is to eliminate a fish disease from your DT (display tank). Going fallow works because you are denying the disease a...
I think my plan at the moment is to buy a cheap fish and put it in the tank and see what happens. I still think there is a chance the fish just eat the stringy fibres that came off the glue as i didnt switch my power heads off. But maybe not, I dont know, just very strange timing with regards to adding my frags then all my fish dying.
ying yang
2500 Club Member
Hi as mentioned in another post above,you don't need another tank to qt fish, you can use
A 5 gallon bucket or multiple 5 gallon bucket if doing tank transfer method,just need watch water quality.
Just out of curiosity where is your local lfs that qt all fish before adding to shop floor tanks and have you asked them what their qt procudure is ? As there multiple qt versions .
One person's idea of qt maybe medicate all fish and another's idea is watch in a separate tank for 2 days
ying yang
2500 Club Member
The small 56 litre tank I have running at all times incase need take a fish out to medicate is in my cupboard near front door,so out of the way.maybe you have a cupboard you can put a small cheap tank you buy at that national retailer at speke retail ( I forget the name now lol ,the one with green sign )
Edit : just checked its pets at home and they sell cheap small tanks,and even lidl and aldl get them occasionally for very cheap.or a second hand one or can just use a 5 gallon bucket,I bought few 5 gallon buckets from Wavertree Nook for I think 8 quid each and just put bucket in cupboard with heater ,small internal filter and airstone and add bottled bacteria and if wanted medicate then medicate and when finished empty bucket .
Some keep small internal filter running in sump at all times then take out and use in qt tank/ bucket when need qt fish but if use say copper medication win qt with internal filter then ovbiously don't add back to sump unless fully sterilised it and be best to throw the sponge away or whatever filter material inside it as copper kills all inverts
Edit : just checked its pets at home and they sell cheap small tanks,and even lidl and aldl get them occasionally for very cheap.or a second hand one or can just use a 5 gallon bucket,I bought few 5 gallon buckets from Wavertree Nook for I think 8 quid each and just put bucket in cupboard with heater ,small internal filter and airstone and add bottled bacteria and if wanted medicate then medicate and when finished empty bucket .
Some keep small internal filter running in sump at all times then take out and use in qt tank/ bucket when need qt fish but if use say copper medication win qt with internal filter then ovbiously don't add back to sump unless fully sterilised it and be best to throw the sponge away or whatever filter material inside it as copper kills all inverts
Last edited:
I do want to say... anytime you add anything wet. You do risk wiping out your fish. More so in new/young tanks. That is just an unfortunate part of the hobby. Also it's not uncommon for venders to suppress disease so it doesn't show in their sale tanks using low dose medications and such.
JoshuaJames95
Community Member
I just absolutely **** myself when you started talking about Speke and wavertree hahaha i didnt see your location
. I go to Finest aquatics mostly. Sometimes drive to manchester and go to Abyss. To be honest im not 100% sure what their QT procedure is like, ive just been told they are in QT so not for sale at the moment.
ying yang
2500 Club Member
Nice shop is finest aquatics ( just opened this April I think it was ) not actually sure if they do full qt or not before add to tanks on shop floor.i know they got few tanks in back and I know I once wanted to buy a copperband butterfly but it had visible flukes on it and they came over to me and said I couldn't buy anything from that particular bank of 3 tanks as treating it for flukes and said they take it in turns dosing each seperate 3 tank system for flukes each day then once did all then go back to begginning ,but then asked another worker few weeks later and he told me they just treat for flukes when needed so idk what really ^_^I just absolutely **** myself when you started talking about Speke and wavertree hahaha i didnt see your location
I know when they get fish orders in,its alot of boxes so they will need alot of tanks to hold them in for several weeks and the fish are quite cheap ( usual kinda price ) and if they did full qt on all fish then price be higher I would of thought but I will ask next week when I'm back there as like this shop .
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