Am I crazy for thinking MH + t5 ?

[A. grandis]

and... Dr. Sanjay still have the chiller plumbed in!
He says he keeps the chiller, which was actually fixed, connected to the system "for whatever reason".
He also said that he does hope not to use it.
But I kinda see him thinking of those lovely halides on over the tank and the chiller running while he talks about that. LOL!
Why he would keep the chiller there if there is absolutely no chances for the halides to come back? Hummm....

Grandis.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

and... Dr. Sanjay still have the chiller plumbed in!
He says he keeps the chiller, which was actually fixed, connected to the system "for whatever reason".
He also said that he does hope not to use it.
But I kinda see him thinking of those lovely halides on over the tank and the chiller running while he talks about that. LOL!
Why he would keep the chiller there if there is absolutely no chances for the halides to come back? Hummm....

Grandis.

I agree his tank would look better and exhibit more rich coloration if he had some metal halide on the system, but the reason his tank is able to work so well with the Radions is because it is 500 gallons and the scaling factor of the many LED modules is immense. A system like his is much better suited than the average 75-150 gallon to using LED. The effect of many overlapping light output patterns helps solve the typical shadowing and diffusion deficiencies inherent in LED pendants. The downside, of course, is the initial cost of adding 8 Radion Pro units is quite a bit more than a Giesemann 6ft pendant and 3 x 400w Radiums - and likely the 5,000+ dollar upfront cost is prohibitive to the average reefer. He also runs his LEDs at high levels so his wattage savings are almost nil in terms of light usage, not factoring in chiller runtime associated with the halides. The only reason his LEDs spare the chiller is because their heat is dissipated on the fixture itself and not radiated into the water with infrared as the halides do. The room itself will still be accept the same amount of heat addition though.

 

[Potatohead]

If I remember correctly it wasn't actually Sanjay's chiller itself that failed, it was the pump that pumps the water through it that failed.

Also, when he originally switched to LED he was using eight G2's, then he added two more later. He switched earlier this year to eight G4's.

 

[A. grandis]

I agree his tank would look better and exhibit more rich coloration if he had some metal halide on the system, but the reason his tank is able to work so well with the Radions is because it is 500 gallons and the scaling factor of the many LED modules is immense. A system like his is much better suited than the average 75-150 gallon to using LED. The effect of many overlapping light output patterns helps solve the typical shadowing and diffusion deficiencies inherent in LED pendants. The downside, of course, is the initial cost of adding 8 Radion Pro units is quite a bit more than a Giesemann 6ft pendant and 3 x 400w Radiums - and likely the 5,000+ dollar upfront cost is prohibitive to the average reefer. He also runs his LEDs at high levels so his wattage savings are almost nil in terms of light usage, not factoring in chiller runtime associated with the halides. The only reason his LEDs spare the chiller is because their heat is dissipated on the fixture itself and not radiated into the water with infrared as the halides do. The room itself will still be accept the same amount of heat addition though.

Yes, well, he actually added 2 more LED fixtures after. So the total now is 10 LED fixtures. Same principal that you described were also the reason why that famous PDF from the LED company showed favorite results to such fixtures. They used the very best out of their fixtures and totally changed the way MHs and T5s should be applied in the comparison.

http://ecotechmarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/ReefWholesale_CoralLab.pdf

And yes, the heat in the room is the same as they do dissipate heat into the air.
The shadowing of his LEDs are indeed there though and he will certainly notice a stronger than MHs tissue recession under his colonies in the long run. That is just the nature of the directional light emitted by the diodes versus MHs/T5s. It's emphasized with the use of LEDs only usage. I just posted about that here:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/kessil-led-vs-halide-t5.331640/page-2#post-4126669

This brings me a question:
Do you think the IR emission benefits coral health?
How can we explain that?
It's almost that the IRs and the cooler water does it's magic!!

Thanks,
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

If I remember correctly it wasn't actually Sanjay's chiller itself that failed, it was the pump that pumps the water through it that failed.

Also, when he originally switched to LED he was using eight G2's, then he added two more later. He switched earlier this year to eight G4's.

Yeah, he has 10 LEDs now.
The chiller had a gas leakage and it was running without cooling the water. The Apex didn't read that as a failure. Plus he had also a problem with the program that was supposed to send him the alerts from the Apex... Multiple things that unfortunately happened.
Grandis.

 

[VJV]

Great thread! I believe that LEDs have been over hyped and people are now realising that the whole promise of a more efficient light source simply is not true. LED's will grow corals but you need MUCH more than what the manufacturer recommends. This brings cost and wattage consumption up, making LEDs a viable but very costly alternative. In my 80 inch long tank using 5 )(probably would need 6) RADIONS vs 1 72inch Giesemann Spectra unit (3x250w MH + 4x80w T5) it would take me 8 years to recover the initial cost difference, or 6,2 years if you consider the added cost of a chiller (which I am not sure I would not need using 5 or 6 radios as well).

In fact, just created a thread on that comparison for anyone interested and not to derail this one.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/l...y-to-light-a-reef-at-least-not-for-me.331910/

I am not bashing LED as a technology in itself, but I believe it is time we stop pushing the cost and energy savings argument.

 

[mcarroll]

So the OP got his answer that he's not crazy about 300-400 posts ago. That says something!

 

[Reef4Rose]

How much is enough light? I purchased a 36” Hamilton Cebu Sun which has 2 250 watt MH and 4 T5 bulbs. My tank is 79 long 31 deep and 23 tall. I will be adding to that as I grow another 36” Cebu Sun. I can get 1 or 2 MH in that unit at 175, 250 or 400 watt. Don’t need to be overkill and want sufficient lighting as I move forward. I don’t know my corals yet so a general guide would be great.

 

[BoomCorals]

With 31 deep you might want to go 400w.

 

[Reef4Rose]

It’s 23 from top to bottom. 31 from front to back.

 

[rtparty]

It’s 23 from top to bottom. 31 from front to back.

250s will be fine imo

 

[BoomCorals]

250s will be fine imo

Ah yep then 250s are fine for the 23 deep.

 

[Reef4Rose]

3 or 4 total MH? First fixture has 2. My 2nd fixture should have 1 or 2 MH? Thanks for the guidance!

 

[BoomCorals]

Two. So four total.

 

[mcarroll]

@pdxmonkeyboy Would you mind changing the thread title from "Am I crazy for thinking MH + t5 ?" to "How to pick and choose the best halide system, setup tips, system trials, and showoff thread"?




(kidding)

 

[Reef4Rose]

@pdxmonkeyboy Would you mind changing the thread title from "Am I crazy for thinking MH + t5 ?" to "How to pick and choose the best halide system, setup tips, system trials, and showoff thread"?

Sorry for asking advise. Just new to all this and appreciate people’s input from experience.

 

[mcarroll]

Search
This whole forum is a great place to ask questions. It's also a great place to run some searches as the depth of questions and answers that are already posted is amazing. The forum's search tool is very powerful. If you want you can search using google too by either including "reef2reef" or "site: www.reef2reef.com" as one of your search terms. (You'll get a different set of results depending which you use. Using "site:" ought to be more specific.)

Post
Asking on the tail of someone else's thread isn't a "problem" like someone is mad at you – don't apologize to me! (Well, the OP "might be" but I doubt it....R2R doesn't generally swing that way.)

It's a problem because now your question is somewhat lost in the comments of this thread vs being in your own thread or in a thread that's more directly related to your question. (To put it more succinctly, we're all a bit off-topic. Nobody is going to get hurt in the process, but it's not the best way to go about getting answers.)

You'll have the attention of LOTS of people if you open a thread on your topic, BTW. Not everyone who might have a great answer for YOUR question will be looking at MH+T5 thread like this. Even the ones that do might not read down through 472 comments to see your question.

Fun
Really just poking fun to have fun.....to whatever extent it matters, the OP got his answer about 400 posts ago. That's funny!

 

[BoomCorals]

Update. The spectra is working awesome. The growth rate in that tank is faster than the LED. Which surprised me. So I've set up another tank, this time with an ATI 8 bulb T5.

 

[A. grandis]

Sorry for asking advise. Just new to all this and appreciate people’s input from experience.

No need be sorry. I agree with 4 X 250W halides.
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

Update. The spectra is working awesome. The growth rate in that tank is faster than the LED. Which surprised me. So I've set up another tank, this time with an ATI 8 bulb T5.

I'm very happy for you! Thanks for the update!
You better get those frags going to your customers, other wise they will grow too big to be shipped. Hehe!
Aloha,
Grandis.