Ammonia in new tank

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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take no action for lack of bacteria :)

here is why (searching for several 8 ppm threads recently, takes a sec)

-holding vs daily rising of ammonia, no bio mechanism exists for fish to be ok with a constant hold, indicating some nitrification ability, just not all. Surface area does not work like that in a reef tank. it oxidizes a lot of ammonia daily from the fish. lack of surface area systems will crash, fast, there is no small increment holding mechanism for free ammonia in all of reefing, just shy of medication events unrelated to normal cycling etc.


- no cloud in water, perfectly clear water I bet. no smell, 2 ppm smells. At 8, someone else in the home makes you stop the hobby

-any use of the water conditioner prime or others along the way makes the water table misread for multiple species of nitrogen

can you post a full tank picture

any aquarium that sits with fish and doesn't die for this long has some bac on surfaces not just by addition from the additives. the description alone is more reliable than the test kit Ill bet, unless the sourcewater is truly an input. It would smell abnormal for sure, if so. human noses detect ammonia really, really well its a natural poison
 
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JamesThomas

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IMG_0765.jpg
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clear water, and a fresh salty smell. pardon the drywall work in the background.
 

BeejReef

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do you have kits for testing Nitrite and Nitrate? Don't run out and buy them. If you buy anything, I'd get a redundant (not API) ammonia test. If you have them though, it might help solve the mystery.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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hey your tank is very handy for something beyond just predicting all that before seeing the tank :)

its showing how rock-less systems are still full on surface area when sand is present. The sand alone is tons of surface area, hungry scrub area for ammonia that's where it all goes the minute a fish emits it as waste

you literally have nothing to do further until you decide on rock to be used. your tank is going to continue to support the bioload/fish with its inherent surface area from sand grains, well in place and performing or that system would've crashed and gone blighted overnite, a while ago. no testing is required.

your options with the upcoming rocks include:

buy the most costly, coralline loaded, purplest, free animal toting live rock you can get from a local pet store, bring it home in buckets of water regardless of what they recommend (direct them, your $) and skip the rest of the cycle/get going

or

use dry rock, set it in there, do nothing and wait 30 days, now that rock is cycled by contact. I know the tendency is to keep testing, and buying bottle bac each time we add new surface area coming up but you flat out don't have to do it. Old school microbiology saves money.
B
 
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JamesThomas

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I have very old dry rock I can clean up. Also have the Master test kit. I could do Nitrite and Nitrate easy
 

beaslbob

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looks like you got a cycle on the way.

use the seachem ammo dot or the ammonia multitest kit. to measure the free ammonia. The api ammonia test kit can not differentiate between free and locked (or total which is free+ locked) ammonia. Some chemicals like prime to detox ammonia will still test ammonia so you add more and still test etc. etc. Each addition also reduces oxygen.

I also like using macro algae to consume ammonia directly while also consuming co2, return oxygen and returning fish food.

But that's just my old school methods which are worth at most

.02
 
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JamesThomas

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so today, ( awaiting for my seachem ammo dot order), I checked the ammonia with my api kit. Its @ .5!! wow
This is the cycle? the water was slightly cloudy before, but I couldnt really tell. this morning it was almost completely crystal clear which prompted the testing...
 

brandon429

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.25 and .5 are searchable reading levels for API that reveal misreads/ghost readings that aren't accurate, theres thousands of threads. yours is ok, you'll have death and permanent clouding if surface area or bac is lacking. we have lots of threads where api is reading 8 ppm, and its still zero. welcome to titration testing nightmare, its why we use visual biology as proof for ammonia...testers are nearly useless on the large scale unless you go digital/seneye.

You could have stirred up sand or the fish might have in some way for the brief cloud, hard to say. the enduring condition daily is the proof, and the time we've been observing the active bioload in the tank.
 
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brandon429

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in our cycling thread, we have a thread example of someone reading on api .5 for five years :) in a full running reef (can't happen, example of an ongoing .5 misread)

*keep in mind* there is no condition in reefing where only some ammonia is left unoxidized among an amount of produced ammonia from a fish bioload that is oxidized daily. you either have enough surface area to handle your bioload, or you don't, and the system dies overnite. all pages here so far have been about trace ammonia levels, for days claimed, in the presence of live fish

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...-titration-testing.622618/page-2#post-6272649
 
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beaslbob

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so today, ( awaiting for my seachem ammo dot order), I checked the ammonia with my api kit. Its @ .5!! wow
This is the cycle? the water was slightly cloudy before, but I couldnt really tell. this morning it was almost completely crystal clear which prompted the testing...
sound good!!!!!
 
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JamesThomas

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oh boy, my confusion continues.....I thought I was on the road to an end in my new tank cycle. I think Beaslbob believes so as well (?) I had been getting readings very high
posted pics of the 8 reading. today the water is very clear and the reading is .5 very much lighter green than the 8. I only have one damsel in the sump.
So in a new tank, I may not have any ammonia (have added the live sand) and still read 8 and then .5 days later? I think the ammonia test is turning into a nightmare for sure. I guess unfortunately my damsel is the untimate test. Im ready to add predator fish but have been holding out for a 0 ammonia reading
 

brandon429

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What about adding the rock portion before more fish
 
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JamesThomas

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I haven’t done anything yet. I wasn’t sure I should add another variable. Maybe I’ll just get a seapure block.
 

beaslbob

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you mentioned a much lighter green than the 8 when measuring .5. The .25 should be mainly yellow. I read .25 for years and years and in my FW tanks it was a nice clear 0. So the api marine kit is hard to read at the lowest levels in salt water testing.

Hopefully you'll notice the next day a more yellowish tint indicating the .25 level.

Finally, macro algae (and other forms of plant life like micro algae) actually prefer to use ammonia for nitrogen over nitrates. So in a new system (or an older system that went bump in the night) where bacteria is not keeping up with ammonia, the macros will consume the ammonia the bacteria doesn't. Preventing the ammonia spike. (you could get a much safer nitrate spike as the algae consume less nitrates). Bacteria will still build up and eventually the macros are forced to use nitrates for nitrogen. Meanwhile the algae is consuming co2 as well while returning fish food and oxygen.

just some random thoughts.

worth at most .02
 

beaslbob

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oh boy, my confusion continues.....I thought I was on the road to an end in my new tank cycle. I think Beaslbob believes so as well (?) I had been getting readings very high
posted pics of the 8 reading. today the water is very clear and the reading is .5 very much lighter green than the 8. I only have one damsel in the sump.
So in a new tank, I may not have any ammonia (have added the live sand) and still read 8 and then .5 days later? I think the ammonia test is turning into a nightmare for sure. I guess unfortunately my damsel is the untimate test. Im ready to add predator fish but have been holding out for a 0 ammonia reading
Your live sand could have organics in it returning high ammonia until things settle down. But than I don't use live sand so am not an expert.

my .02
 

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