Ammonia Level in QT Advice

[CJWilliams]

Hi all.

I have my first fish (2 small clowns) in QT right now while the DT is cycling (1.5 weeks into that). I’m following a pseudo-BRS / Humblefish method of 45 min formalin bath, then 14 days copper and nitrofurazone. I had planned to do 100% water changes every 3-4 days (BRS recommended) for ammonia control.

I’m on day 4 and just did the first 100% WC. Checked ammonia with a Hanna checker before and was shocked it was 0.91. Didn’t know what to expect but was thinking 0.20 to 0.30 or so. I had added some Microbacter Start XLM (leftover from tank cycle). I know now this is a dormant form of bacteria and I should get some Fritz Turbo 900 or BioSpira.

Anyways, do I need to be worried that they were exposed to that level of ammonia? Seems like I read somewhere that Methylene Blue should be used for ammonia exposure. I have some but don’t want to mix medications.

Going forward I will use live bacteria to help and I’ll make sure to cycle some filter media in the sump of the DT to help (bleach curing after use in QT).

Fish have been active and eating fine. Look happy to me.

Thank you.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi all.

I have my first fish (2 small clowns) in QT right now while the DT is cycling (1.5 weeks into that). I’m following a pseudo-BRS / Humblefish method of 45 min formalin bath, then 14 days copper and nitrofurazone. I had planned to do 100% water changes every 3-4 days (BRS recommended) for ammonia control.

I’m on day 4 and just did the first 100% WC. Checked ammonia with a Hanna checker before and was shocked it was 0.91. Didn’t know what to expect but was thinking 0.20 to 0.30 or so. I had added some Microbacter Start XLM (leftover from tank cycle). I know now this is a dormant form of bacteria and I should get some Fritz Turbo 900 or BioSpira.

Anyways, do I need to be worried that they were exposed to that level of ammonia? Seems like I read somewhere that Methylene Blue should be used for ammonia exposure. I have some but don’t want to mix medications.

Going forward I will use live bacteria to help and I’ll make sure to cycle some filter media in the sump of the DT to help (bleach curing after use in QT).

Fish have been active and eating fine. Look happy to me.

Thank you.

Never add fish until tank is fully cycled and ammonia is at zero steadily for at least 5 days and nitrate is 20 or below also for 5 days. Dont worry about nitrite
Since fish are in, you can add MicroBacter XLM but best is to add them to a different tank with fresh seawater and get that tank properly cycled.
The problem with jumping from BRS to Humblefish to R2R is that you are chasing numbers and using different methods causing you to arrive where you are at.
Fritz Turbo 900 is a near instant cycle but allow test kits to indicate how safe environment is for the fish. If you are using Api kit, you may have false readings although its not always a false result with Api
Yu can verify ammonia also by taking a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at

 

[drolmaeye]

Even though you did 100% water change, double-check the QT tank is measuring an appropriately low ammonia concentration now.

The key is to make sure it's low, and now try to keep it low, e.g., by limiting feeding and/or removing uneaten food about 30 minutes after feeding (if possible).

I do not believe you need to do anything to treat the fish for ammonia exposure, especially if they are not exhibiting symptoms and are behaving normally.

Ammonia can sneak up on us sometimes, especially in a QT tank.

 

[CJWilliams]

Never add fish until tank is fully cycled and ammonia is at zero steadily for at least 5 days and nitrate is 20 or below also for 5 days. Dont worry about nitrite
Since fish are in, you can add MicroBacter XLM but best is to add them to a different tank with fresh seawater and get that tank properly cycled.
The problem with jumping from BRS to Humblefish to R2R is that you are chasing numbers and using different methods causing you to arrive where you are at.
Fritz Turbo 900 is a near instant cycle but allow test kits to indicate how safe environment is for the fish. If you are using Api kit, you may have false readings although its not always a false result with Api
Yu can verify ammonia also by taking a water sample to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at

Thank you for the reply. I’m really using the BRS method only I switched to do the formalin bath before putting in QT tank. That’s what Humblefish does and it made more sense to me. BRS stated these frequent 100% water changes would be enough for ammonia control. I’m seeing now there are better ways and I’ll adjust accordingly.

I did the 100% water change so it’s all clean water now. I’m going to pick up live bacteria tomorrow and apply it. I have a Hanna ammonia checker so it should be accurate enough.

 

[CJWilliams]

Even though you did 100% water change, double-check the QT tank is measuring an appropriately low ammonia concentration now.

The key is to make sure it's low, and now try to keep it low, e.g., by limiting feeding and/or removing uneaten food about 30 minutes after feeding (if possible).

I do not believe you need to do anything to treat the fish for ammonia exposure, especially if they are not exhibiting symptoms and are behaving normally.

Ammonia can sneak up on us sometimes, especially in a QT tank.

Thank you. I’ll check levels again tomorrow. I’ll add live bacteria as well.

I have been diligent about removing uneaten food and waste with a net and turkey baster after feedings.

 

[Thumbster]

Somewhere I remember reading that copper power will make ammonia test high.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi all.

I have my first fish (2 small clowns) in QT right now while the DT is cycling (1.5 weeks into that). I’m following a pseudo-BRS / Humblefish method of 45 min formalin bath, then 14 days copper and nitrofurazone. I had planned to do 100% water changes every 3-4 days (BRS recommended) for ammonia control.

I’m on day 4 and just did the first 100% WC. Checked ammonia with a Hanna checker before and was shocked it was 0.91. Didn’t know what to expect but was thinking 0.20 to 0.30 or so. I had added some Microbacter Start XLM (leftover from tank cycle). I know now this is a dormant form of bacteria and I should get some Fritz Turbo 900 or BioSpira.

Anyways, do I need to be worried that they were exposed to that level of ammonia? Seems like I read somewhere that Methylene Blue should be used for ammonia exposure. I have some but don’t want to mix medications.

Going forward I will use live bacteria to help and I’ll make sure to cycle some filter media in the sump of the DT to help (bleach curing after use in QT).

Fish have been active and eating fine. Look happy to me.

Thank you.

Methylene blue doesn't help with ammonia (it helps with nitrite, but nitrite doesn't harm marine fishes).

Fritz can work for ammonia control, but there is always some lag with these products.

I'm not a fan of that quarantine method at all - ammonia can build up in QT a lot faster than people expect it will. A 1 ppm rise per day is not unheard of. I also stopped using formalin as a high dose dip on new fish, the mortality rate was just too high. Then, there are better antibiotics than nitrofurazone, and I only use antibiotics if there is a clear indication that there is a bacterial infection. Literally 100% of external fish bacterial infections come from bacteria that are already present in the aquarium anyway. Depending on the copper product you are using, 14 days is too short of a duration. Finally, a single formalin dip will not control flukes, so fish given this protocol will be at risk from those later on.

For future reference, I would suggest using this method (It takes longer, but it truly does work better):

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[CJWilliams]

Methylene blue doesn't help with ammonia (it helps with nitrite, but nitrite doesn't harm marine fishes).

Fritz can work for ammonia control, but there is always some lag with these products.

I'm not a fan of that quarantine method at all - ammonia can build up in QT a lot faster than people expect it will. A 1 ppm rise per day is not unheard of. I also stopped using formalin as a high dose dip on new fish, the mortality rate was just too high. Then, there are better antibiotics than nitrofurazone, and I only use antibiotics if there is a clear indication that there is a bacterial infection. Literally 100% of external fish bacterial infections come from bacteria that are already present in the aquarium anyway. Depending on the copper product you are using, 14 days is too short of a duration. Finally, a single formalin dip will not control flukes, so fish given this protocol will be at risk from those later on.

For future reference, I would suggest using this method (It takes longer, but it truly does work better):

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

Thank you Jay. I’m using copper power at 2.3 to 2.5 ppm.

I’m going to try this protocol on the next fish. I had read this but honestly didn’t want to do a QT that long. Mostly because I was worried about trying to control ammonia in a small tank that long but I guess if I fully cycle it beforehand then it shouldn’t be an issue. This way obviously hasn’t solved that issue as I’m only 4 days in.

For cycling, I’ve read there are a few products for bacteria to grow on that won’t absorb medications, such as Fluval bio max. Do you have any recommendations on filter media for this?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you Jay. I’m using copper power at 2.3 to 2.5 ppm.

I’m going to try this protocol on the next fish. I had read this but honestly didn’t want to do a QT that long. Mostly because I was worried about trying to control ammonia in a small tank that long but I guess if I fully cycle it beforehand then it shouldn’t be an issue. This way obviously hasn’t solved that issue as I’m only 4 days in.

For cycling, I’ve read there are a few products for bacteria to grow on that won’t absorb medications, such as Fluval bio max. Do you have any recommendations on filter media for this?

Copper Power needs to be run for a minimum of 21 days, 30 is much better.

Adding new/dry bio media now won't help much. If you have established, non-calcareous media from an established tank, you should use that. The sintered glass block material is fine to use.

Jay

 

[CJWilliams]

Copper Power needs to be run for a minimum of 21 days, 30 is much better.

Adding new/dry bio media now won't help much. If you have established, non-calcareous media from an established tank, you should use that. The sintered glass block material is fine to use.

Jay

Thank you Jay.

I've had some biomax in the filter (along with the sponge) for the duration of the QT. Also have previously added the Microbacter Start XLM 5 days ago. So hopefully some progress has already been made on it. I appreciate your time and advice.

 

[CJWilliams]

So update to this. There likely was ammonia in there but not as high as I reported. Copper Power and the Hanna checker don’t mix. See my reply in this thread:

Ammonia and Copper Power

I've read in this thread post #15 where @Jay Hemdal said that "Copper Power, with a fresh full dose will give a 0.50 ppm ammonia reading." Can you (Randy) or anyone clarify the chemistry for the increase in ammonia readings (using a Hanna Checker) when dosing Copper Power? Thanks in advance.

www.reef2reef.com

I’ve added live bacteria and will do another WC tomorrow. Fish are active and eating well.

 

[Thumbster]

Awesome job.