Ammonia- not going away

[Arod0416]

I finally got a RODI system.
it is the RO buddie 4 stage system and I have a pre-filter system as well. The TDS reading is 0 and when I test the water it is ammonia free.

My tank is 2 and half months old. I have minimal diatoms and cyano now. Now I am forming green circles on my glass, it is like a neon green. I got about 4 tablespoons worth..

I started my tank wrong... cycling with fishes.... thankfully, my fishes from day 1 are still here....

I did a massive water change 2 weeks ago, about 30 gallons worth out of m6 55 gallons....

First couple of days it was 0 and then went back to the reading of 0.25 ppm.. Salifert testing is <0.15... API and salifert Ammonia testing results are at the very minimal....

parameters:
ph: 8.2
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 40 ppm
Temperature: 78

anyone can know the reason why?

 

[Flippers4pups]

I finally got a RODI system.
it is the RO buddie 4 stage system and I have a pre-filter system as well. The TDS reading is 0 and when I test the water it is ammonia free.

My tank is 2 and half months old. I have minimal diatoms and cyano now. Now I am forming green circles on my glass, it is like a neon green. I got about 4 tablespoons worth..

I started my tank wrong... cycling with fishes.... thankfully, my fishes from day 1 are still here....

I did a massive water change 2 weeks ago, about 30 gallons worth out of m6 55 gallons....

First couple of days it was 0 and then went back to the reading of 0.25 ppm.. Salifert testing is <0.15... API and salifert Ammonia testing results are at the very minimal....

parameters:
ph: 8.2
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 40 ppm
Temperature: 78

anyone can know the reason why?

It's likely "background noise" reading those low ammonia readings. Hobby test kits for ammonia, especially API, are known to show ammonia at their lowest scale.

How much rock do you have in the tank?

 

[laverda]

I would stop bothering with the API test kit. From what I have read levels of .15 ammonia are safe for most things, but you do not want it higher. Ammonia will always be it your tank at very small levels (usually unmeasurable with hobby test kits) as long as you have fish in the tank. How many fish, rocks and your filtration system will all affect the levels. I would wait a little longer before adding more fish just to be sure if you feel you have enough live rock and plenty of filtration. If not correct it first.

 

[brandon429]

You have zero ammonia for sure, if you can account for all animals/none missing in the rocks. all reef tanks with typical surface area by rule run in the safe zone / thousandths ppm and this tank will too, or all your fish would have died a long time ago.

they were never initially burned either; fish in cycling works because ammonia is controlled down to the thousandths when you added first dose of bottle bac. there is no mild burning, or partial irritance with free ammonia, it kills your tank. Fish- in cycling skips disease protocols, it doesn't burn the fish or they'd die.

you are fine for ammonia here. any reef stating fish have been in place, acting normal, including rocks and sand, all animals accounted for, cannot have hovering free ammonia the surface area action wont let it remain above .00x without some dying organism overcoming it all. I suppose straight dosing of ammonia through topoff water might keep it up, but that's rare/never seen before.

my claims w be tested soon for accuracy. Dr Reef is preparing a test where seneye measures bottle bac skip cycles using damsels.

 

[brandon429]

post a full pic shot of this tank


we discussed above how surface area modulates free ammonia to a predictable level where bioload and water clarity confirms it, but pics themselves have neat clues. such as where fish are swimming in the pic

ammonia burned fish swim in a specific place, = where the most o2 is. they never swim in the low o2 zones (down low near sand) when gills are being burnt.

lets say the whiskers of a lysmata shrimp peek out from under a rock

= zero ammonia, they can't tolerate any above setpoint at all. a fish could tolerate much more free ammonia than a lysmata.

 

[Arod0416]

It's likely "background noise" reading those low ammonia readings. Hobby test kits for ammonia, especially API, are known to show ammonia at their lowest scale.

How much rock do you have in the tank?

What’s background noise?
I have 10-15 gallons worth of rock and about 5 pounds of sand. I used salifert as well and it was at the lowest scale. I feed my fishes every other day one frozen cube

 

[Arod0416]

You have zero ammonia for sure, if you can account for all animals/none missing in the rocks. all reef tanks with typical surface area by rule run in the safe zone / thousandths ppm and this tank will too, or all your fish would have died a long time ago.

they were never initially burned either; fish in cycling works because ammonia is controlled down to the thousandths when you added first dose of bottle bac. there is no mild burning, or partial irritance with free ammonia, it kills your tank. Fish- in cycling skips disease protocols, it doesn't burn the fish or they'd die.

you are fine for ammonia here. any reef stating fish have been in place, acting normal, including rocks and sand, all animals accounted for, cannot have hovering free ammonia the surface area action wont let it remain above .00x without some dying organism overcoming it all. I suppose straight dosing of ammonia through topoff water might keep it up, but that's rare/never seen before.

my claims w be tested soon for accuracy. Dr Reef is preparing a test where seneye measures bottle bac skip cycles using damsels.

All my fishes are looking fine and swimming everywhere. There gills aren’t burnt off. My tang swims across the tank back and fourth up and down. N my clownfish and damsels does the same. I have one powerhead to the left and one to the right. Both are pointed to surface of the water to agitate it. My rocks have minimal cyano and a little green

 

[Arod0416]

post a full pic shot of this tank


we discussed above how surface area modulates free ammonia to a predictable level where bioload and water clarity confirms it, but pics themselves have neat clues. such as where fish are swimming in the pic

ammonia burned fish swim in a specific place, = where the most o2 is. they never swim in the low o2 zones (down low near sand) when gills are being burnt.

lets say the whiskers of a lysmata shrimp peek out from under a rock

= zero ammonia, they can't tolerate any above setpoint at all. a fish could tolerate much more free ammonia than a lysmata.

My fishes are all over the place, mainly in the middle hanging around the rocks but, they swim everywhere. When they playing around they swim to the top and to the bottom but there hang out spot is in the middle of the tank (the rocks)

 

[Arod0416]

You have zero ammonia for sure, if you can account for all animals/none missing in the rocks. all reef tanks with typical surface area by rule run in the safe zone / thousandths ppm and this tank will too, or all your fish would have died a long time ago.

they were never initially burned either; fish in cycling works because ammonia is controlled down to the thousandths when you added first dose of bottle bac. there is no mild burning, or partial irritance with free ammonia, it kills your tank. Fish- in cycling skips disease protocols, it doesn't burn the fish or they'd die.

you are fine for ammonia here. any reef stating fish have been in place, acting normal, including rocks and sand, all animals accounted for, cannot have hovering free ammonia the surface area action wont let it remain above .00x without some dying organism overcoming it all. I suppose straight dosing of ammonia through topoff water might keep it up, but that's rare/never seen before.

my claims w be tested soon for accuracy. Dr Reef is preparing a test where seneye measures bottle bac skip cycles using damsels.

I was planning to add a refugium sump :/ but, I don’t know where to start. I wanted a HOB refugium because a month ago my nitrate was 160 ppm. With weekly water change and the massive water change, I was able to stabilize my tank at 40 ppm for the past 2-3 weeks. I was thinking of the refugium because I learned chaeto can reduce nitrate and phosphate levels. So, I do plan on getting a sump. I just need to learn where to start :/ well the first thing I need to get is a tank, I seen a 20 gallon sump tank on eBay that I am really interested in.

 

[Arod0416]

post a full pic shot of this tank


we discussed above how surface area modulates free ammonia to a predictable level where bioload and water clarity confirms it, but pics themselves have neat clues. such as where fish are swimming in the pic

ammonia burned fish swim in a specific place, = where the most o2 is. they never swim in the low o2 zones (down low near sand) when gills are being burnt.

lets say the whiskers of a lysmata shrimp peek out from under a rock

= zero ammonia, they can't tolerate any above setpoint at all. a fish could tolerate much more free ammonia than a lysmata.

They hanging out on the rocks right now

 

[brandon429]

Excellent, that is confirmed as no free ammonia it’s hungry surface area, scrubbing fish waste/even the occasional overfeed spike right back down to safe levels very fast. Water clarity looks great and all behaviors are reflected well in the pics.

 

[Arod0416]

Thank you so much!
So, I should bypass the lowest scale of ammonia on API and salifert testings and continue stAblizing my tank?

Also, is there anything you recommend about what to put in a refugium sump?

 

[brandon429]

Refugium = too many custom choices / all opinion

but ammonia, your tank is stable and can never have a future ammonia issue if you can account for all living animals, it is not a parameter that fluctuates much. It cannot fluctuate into instability, ammonia is locked in safe here.

What ammonia does is the most predictable parameter in reefing, I’ve never owned an ammonia test kit for a reef in twenty years. All cycles, all aquarium conditions work off pre established timescales known for fifty years or more, owning an ammonia tester is not required for successful reefing.

test for alk and calcium when corals start to pile up
The only thing your ammonia tester is good for is registering a totally green color change when a dead fish is rotting away, but we wouldn’t need a tester to catch the cause and remedy that condition. To account for all fish means ammonia is controlled as long as water is in the tank. most reliable, clockwork predictable parameter of them all.


I don’t mess with pH either.

 

[brandon429]

how are we doing here ! hope its sharp and running.

 

[JonnyTorch]

Thanks all. This assured me of my false .25 reading on API. I've heard they are bad this is a good argument. Thank you.

 

[Woodchip]

My api test kit is reading between.25 and.50 woods thus be the same for me? I have a 30 gallon tank with a 10 gallon sump. 40 pounds of sand and 40 pounds of rock.

 

[brandon429]

Can you post pics of the tank

We look for clarity details, fish distribution if any, where snails are located, all kinds of ammonia proofers

No reef tanks using sand and or rock allow for a buildup of free ammonia its the #1 molecule they're designed to uptake. Fish deaths, temp drops might cause loss cascades but the bacteria remain when the system is cleaned of the source, all reefs default to total ammonia control not partial.


Old cycling rules had no context for ammonia misreads so they invented the mini/ stuck/ half cycle but it doesn't work that way... seneye owners know this nowadays.

 

[Woodchip]

It doesn’t have fish yet it is finishing cycling ammonia is .25 nitrite is.25 and nitrate is 20. It was a month long cycle without fish but I added a bottle of fritz turbo start.

 

[Woodchip]

This is my tank though.

 

[brandon429]

Did you feed it anything during the wait