Ammonia not spiking during cycle

[Rodan]

I am new to this stuff. I have a 32 gallon bio cube that I am in the process of cycling. It has been 3 and half weeks and my ammonia has just been at .5 the whole time . Im using damsels to cycle and I also put in bacteria for the cycle. Ph is between 7.8 and 8, nitrites are 0, nitrates are 0. I also have this brown alage on my tank im not sure if this means anything relative to the cycle. Im just confused if I should keep waiting or if there is something I need to do.

 

[InvaderJim]

Are you using an API test kit? If so they are notorious for giving a false ammonia reading. A diatom bloom usually means your cycle has completed or is nearing completion.

 

[Rodan]

Are you using an API test kit? If so they are notorious for giving a false ammonia reading. A diatom bloom usually means your cycle has completed or is nearing completion.

Yes I am but what about my nitrite and nitrate readings could they be false? And is there a better way of testing?

 

[MnFish1]

I am new to this stuff. I have a 32 gallon bio cube that I am in the process of cycling. It has been 3 and half weeks and my ammonia has just been at .5 the whole time . Im using damsels to cycle and I also put in bacteria for the cycle. Ph is between 7.8 and 8, nitrites are 0, nitrates are 0. I also have this brown alage on my tank im not sure if this means anything relative to the cycle. Im just confused if I should keep waiting or if there is something I need to do.

First - 0.5 is not normal. Second - the fish will not produce ammonia as quickly as adding 2 ppm/day. Third - you added bacteria - and if working your ammonia should be lower. Fourth - Are you sure your test is accurate and that you're doing it correctly.

I would carefully watch the ammonia - to be sure that it's not rising - in which case, you can add more BACTERIA. The level it's at now is not likely to be toxic to fish unless you have a much higher pH.

 

[MnFish1]

As to the API test kit, They are just as accurate as others - as long as you do the test completely accurately. If it says shake for x seconds - do it, etc etc. I did not see your pH in your first post - at that level your free ammonia is probably ok. I do not think your tank is 'cycled' because you should have more nitrate by now. Your free ammonia is 0.016 - this is not yet a problem. The Seachem alert badge ;Alert level' is at 0.05 ppm (Free ammonia)

 

[InvaderJim]

Yes I am but what about my nitrite and nitrate readings could they be false? And is there a better way of testing?

The nitrite and nitrate are likely fine but the ammonia on that kit I wouldn't trust. There are dozen's of posts about its inaccuracy on the forums.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I am new to this stuff. I have a 32 gallon bio cube that I am in the process of cycling. It has been 3 and half weeks and my ammonia has just been at .5 the whole time . Im using damsels to cycle and I also put in bacteria for the cycle. Ph is between 7.8 and 8, nitrites are 0, nitrates are 0. I also have this brown alage on my tank im not sure if this means anything relative to the cycle. Im just confused if I should keep waiting or if there is something I need to do.

Have you added ammonia Chloride or a piece of shrimp to encourage a spike. Without this step, you cannot properly monitor a cycle process. When ammonia rises thn falls and achieves a steady reading of Zero for at least 5 days and when nitrate rises and falls and holds at 20 or below- you are cycled.
A typical cycle period is 14-21 days and you want to stock very slowly to allow denitrifying bacteria to keep up with new bioload as tank matures

 

[MnFish1]

Have you added ammonia Chloride or a piece of shrimp to encourage a spike. Without this step, you cannot properly monitor a cycle process. When ammonia rises thn falls and achieves a steady reading of Zero for at least 5 days and when nitrate rises and falls and holds at 20 or below- you are cycled.
A typical cycle period is 14-21 days and you want to stock very slowly to allow denitrifying bacteria to keep up with new bioload as tank matures

He has fish already in the tank - I would not add any ammonia at this point. You're correct - you cannot monitor a cycle the same way as you would if you immediately added bacteria and ammonia.

 

[MnFish1]

The nitrite and nitrate are likely fine but the ammonia on that kit I wouldn't trust. There are dozen's of posts about its inaccuracy on the forums.

FWIW - I tested ammonia perhaps 100 times over a month period with 2 different tanks and 2 different API kits. I never had a 'false' high ammonia level except 1 time when I did not follow the instructions. The biggest issue with all kits is how the tube is held, what lighting is used. Most people think that an API test is read in a way not specified in the instructions. I.e. if the color of 0 is yellow and 0.25 is a light green - People read it as 0.25 if the color is even slightly green - this is incorrect. According to the instructions you pick the color closest. No test is perfect - and there have been at least a couple studies done which have shown little or no difference between them. You're right - many people have repeated the mantra that there is a problem with them. I do not think it's causing the OP's problem PS - agree that nitrite is a non-factor and the nitrate will rise much more slowly than in a 'normal' cycle.

 

[vetteguy53081]

He has fish already in the tank - I would not add any ammonia at this point. You're correct - you cannot monitor a cycle the same way as you would if you immediately added bacteria and ammonia.

Obviously you dont add ammonia to a tank with livestock that can die from ammonia. Its steps that should HAVE BEEN done prior to stocking. Too late now

 

[MnFish1]

Obviously you dont add ammonia to a tank with livestock that can die from ammonia. Its steps that should HAVE BEEN done prior to stocking. Too late now

There are numerous products that say you can add fish on day 1. And - those products still produce a cycle - but there is (or shouldn't be) a large spike - as I said in my first post. You'd be surprised how many people have added ammonia to tanks with livestock - or asked the question. Which is why I answered the way I did

 

[Mortgaged Reefs]

I am setting up a new tank now using Dr Tim’s so I’m curious to see how it goes

 

[brandon429]

Your cycle is done already, ammonia isn’t zero. Thats the old false rules

you’re done, it’s why the fish are alive and eating fine. It was ok on day one. All reefs read that approximate level you show when up and running, on that kit.

 

[MnFish1]

I am setting up a new tank now using Dr Tim’s so I’m curious to see how it goes

If you use the 'ammonia' and the 'bacteria' - per directions, you will have a spike. If you only use bacteria and add fish - you will not get a spike. Good luck - let us know how it goes

 

[MnFish1]

Your cycle is done already, ammonia isn’t zero. Thats the old false rules

you’re done, it’s why the fish are alive and eating fine. It was ok on day one. All reefs read that approximate level you show when up and running, on that kit.

Total NH4 should be zero. It is also the best indicator of Free NH3 - besides having a Seneye for the average home hobbyist. I agree with you - in general it takes more NH4 to be toxic than we expect given the pH of most tanks. And - in the case of adding fish and bacteria on Day 1, assuming the directions were followed - and assuming the bacteria was alive even an ammonia of 0.5 (total) is not 'dangerous'.

People that are spiking their tank with ammonia - and then adding bacteria - need to measure total NH4 - and wait for the levels to drop.

BTW - adding fish to the tank and letting it cycle is not 'new science' - it's the way it was done for decades before people started adding high doses of ammonia.

 

[brandon429]

we can't get total nh4 to zero on 95% of all api kits though


whats new science is that adding fish that way isn't burning them.

it is new: the old way said it was burning fish/harm/but since they're just damsels nobody cared.

the new science is that it's instant disease import to harm the system later on...

Also new is that cycling with one fish/ bottle bac gets the whole tank ready for multiple fish... old cycling science said/ still incorrectly says in Brews's stickied cycle article/ that we must match the bioload initial to the planned bioload final... this plays a big role in why people add 2ppm ammonia at the start...


Time underwater and surface area are factored now in ways old cycling science never mentioned as people elevate their own cycle articles to sticky status and never allow for updates or new discoveries. I know I'm reading old dated cycling info if surface area isn't mentioned in the article and if time waited isn't positioned as the great equalizer

Cycle charts tell us pretty well how long it takes to earn ammonia control and that it doesn't go away after

anytime Im reading someone's writing that water bacteria may not set up shop correctly in water that isn't boiled, frozen or sealed in a hermetic glass container after autoclaving lol/that's old cycling science voodoo lol

 

[MnFish1]

we can't total nh4 to zero on 95% of all api kits though


whats new science is that adding fish that was isn't burning them.

it is new: the old way said it was burning fish/harm/but since they're just damsels nobody cared.

the new science is that it's instant disease import to harm the system later on...

That has been 'stated' (about API tests). I never measure ammonia - except when I was doing my experiments a while back. I did perhaps 100-150 tests over a month and 2 different tanks, 2 different kits. I had no problem getting a 'zero' result. Likewise, when ammonia was added to a certain PPM - it always came out correct. People keep repeating that API tests cannot read '0' - But - as shown in polls, many people have not ever used an API test, but merely keep repeating 'they never read zero'. People do not follow the directions when reading the tests - a zero ammonia does not have to be pure yellow - even if its slightly green, as long as its not closer to the green in the 0.25 ppm, the instructions say to read it as 'zero'.

 

[92Miata]

I had no problem getting a 'zero' result.

Good for you. Your experiences are not universal.

I, in contrast, have been able to repeatedly and consistently get false highs on the API ammonia test.

a zero ammonia does not have to be pure yellow - even if its slightly green, as long as its not closer to the green in the 0.25 ppm, the instructions say to read it as 'zero'.

Fantastic. Where that distinction lies is entirely dependent on the color temperature of the lights in the room, an individual's ability to discern minor color differences in the yellow-green range (which is usually poor-to-very-poor in men), and the ratio of ammonia to ammonium, and the amount of iron in the sample water - because iron very heavily interferes with salicylate-indophenol based ammonia tests.

 

[MnFish1]

Good for you. Your experiences are not universal.

I, in contrast, have been able to repeatedly and consistently get false highs on the API ammonia test.



Fantastic. Where that distinction lies is entirely dependent on the color temperature of the lights in the room, an individual's ability to discern minor color differences in the yellow-green range (which is usually poor-to-very-poor in men), and the ratio of ammonia to ammonium, and the amount of iron in the sample water - because iron very heavily interferes with salicylate-indophenol based ammonia tests.

Totally correct. Just like every other 'eye based' test out there.... But - the key point - a 0.25 total ammonia - will (never) result in a toxic ammonia level. The data on this site suggest that though many people have the prejudice against the API tests - very few have used them (i.e. they have heard the conversation). I'm curious though - what errors were you seeing?

 

[92Miata]

Totally correct. Just like every other 'eye based' test out there.... But - the key point - a 0.25 total ammonia - will (never) result in a toxic ammonia level. The data on this site suggest that though many people have the prejudice against the API tests - very few have used them (i.e. they have heard the conversation). I'm curious though - what errors were you seeing?

What is your evidence for "Very few have used them"?


I see the same errors everyone else sees - false positives.