Ammonia spike after upgrade

Reefermadness98

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sorry if this is in the wrong thread section but I need some emergency advice. I had a well established 55 gallon and decided to upgrade to a 90 gallon. I was told to use new sand (dry sand rinsed a ton) because my sand was ancient 10+ years from the guy who gave me the tank. I also added 20lbs of reef saver rock. I used about 70 gallons of new water and 30 gallons of my old tank water, transfered over all of my live rock covered in mushrooms and toadstools. Everything was going great until I noticed my acan acting weird. I tested for ammonia and it was high, like very high, my red sea test kit was dark blue instead of yellow, i retested at my lfs/work and our api kit was dark green reading 8. Now here's where it gets weird, my monti cap completely died over night but everything else is "okay" I removed all of my euphyllia zoas lps and sps and I'm holding them for now at my work until I get this figured out. All of my hairy mushrooms, toadstools abd softies are still in my tank, they're acting a little weird but still fully open, all of my fish are still swimming around doing just fine, I have a sailfin tang, 2 clowns, pajama cardinal, yellow blotch rabbit and a yellow coris. All of my inverts are cruising around eating, I have 2 turbos, multiple trochus, a fighter conch, horseshoe crab, black cucumber, anemone and a massive green brittle and all are doing okay so far. I decided to do a 50% water change but it didn't change anything, ive added nitryifing bacteria and poly filters, changed all my carbon cleaned everything and ammonia will not read any lower. Im beyond confused, i know from upgrading i probably threw off my bio filtration but I don't feel like it explains why the ammonia is through the roof, yet my inverts and fish are all doing great considering how high the ammonia is, im at a loss. Sorry for the long post any help from the masters would be greatly appreciated. The photo with 2 test viles, the left vile is plain ro and the right is freshly mixed salt (ive heard a lot of salts contain ammonia? This was the same reading with 2 different buckets), the picture with the single vile is my tanks water, hopefully I can get this figured out, thank you for reading!:D
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Mega Meltdown After Sale

Hydrored

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I would add a bottle of bacteria, you can also continue to do water changes. I just went through this when I upgraded to a 210 bare bottom using 50% of water, bricks, and all of the rock removing the sand. Used Microbacter Start.

Edit: No idea on the ammonia for new salt. Are you using RODI water?
 
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Reefermadness98

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I only have microbacter7 at the moment and I've been adding it daily for the past 3 days, unfortunately no change yet
 
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Reefermadness98

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I would add a bottle of bacteria, you can also continue to do water changes. I just went through this when I upgraded to a 210 bare bottom using 50% of water, bricks, and all of the rock removing the sand. Used Microbacter Start.

Edit: No idea on the ammonia for new salt. Are you using RODI water?
Yeah I'm using the brs 4 stage, just replaced the di resin and filters too
 
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Reefermadness98

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Did you say massive green brittle? That preys on fish in the night... Anyway, add some bacteria, do a water change and wait a while for it to go down...
Lol yeah I've had him for about 6 months, im well aware of the danger i keep him well fed and he tends to stay away from my fish, hasnt taken any yet atleast, he takes food right from my hand too! He's pretty cool haha
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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Your tank has no ammonia problem per pics, and fish behavior in pics. The reason your tester, and their tester says you have free ammonia, is because its not seneye. I could link a ten page thread proving your ammonia is safe in the thousandths ppm but nobody believes anything but the test :) so it won’t matter. Reasons for coral anger? No lighting ramp up is one possible reason. In the sand rinse thread we never do full lighting on a tank move, the lights have to reacclimate due to robbing all the waste and starting clean. Sun burn. *that same coral can recover I have pics of my monti bone white from cold/heater malfunction/comes back don't throw out.

i realize disregarding your tester feels incorrect, so it’s ok to fully disregard what I typed but security details stand out in the pics. No free ammonia here. The starfish is the first to die if your water ever hit *.02* ppm, that low.

in our proof thread we have mature tanks showing 8 ppm, fish doing fine, on a non seneye test kit. Your readings are common, and wrong due to tester inability, they’re not surprising or uncommon.
b429

even though you test another sample and get no ammonia, and then your tank shows some while all fish and invert life seems fine, your tests are still wrong and seneye would show this tank at .00x, we can see by your pics. Fish would be hovering at top, unable to breathe, if your free ammonia ever even hit the tenths ppm. They’re fine because it has not hit that level, and won’t. There are threads in the chem forum that discuss why testers misread on tank sample water but not other water.

There are also tests in chem forum showing common water we buy to drink at the store, distilled, full of ammonia which isn’t true.

welcome to non seneye ammonia reading and the fear it brings, you never needed bottle bac not once here.
 
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brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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Also if I’m not mistaken I see the whiskers of a lysmata cleaner shrimp (left live rock stack at the top). The weakest ammonia mine canary in reefing is doing fine and proofed that you never had even a slight ammonia spike. This thread is now added to our proofing thread.

it is impossible for a reef tank to run daily with ammonia above thousandths ppm controlled and animals looking fine, your whole tank would be dead if that reading was true.

when no seneye is avail, it’s more accurate to read free ammonia off tank pics when dealing with marine systems. Your actual free ammonia levels are controlled, and in the thousandths ppm.


there is not one time in reefing where ammonia spikes into tenths ppm and things still live, especially lysmata shrimp. In the end people will disregard proofing truth and back the test :(

just wanted you to see the other side. Bottle bac makers and sellers love non seneye testing, for sure.


here is some max tolerance levels, and description of burning/reactions, from levels fractional to those reported here.
 
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andrewey

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Also if I’m not mistaken I see the whiskers of a lysmata cleaner shrimp (left live rock stack at the top). The weakest ammonia mine canary in reefing is doing fine and proofed that you never had even a slight ammonia spike. This thread is now added to our proofing thread.

it is impossible for a reef tank to run daily with ammonia above thousandths ppm controlled and animals looking fine, your whole tank would be dead if that reading was true.

when no seneye is avail, it’s more accurate to read free ammonia off tank pics when dealing with marine systems. Your actual free ammonia levels are controlled, and in the thousandths ppm.


there is not one time in reefing where ammonia spikes into tenths ppm and things still live, especially lysmata shrimp. In the end people will disregard proofing truth and back the test :(

just wanted you to see the other side. Bottle bac makers and sellers love non seneye testing, for sure.
I'm not why you have made any of these claims- most are unfounded and possibly dangerous. I'd love if you could provide any evidence for your statements that is either validated or biologically based. OP, there are some great resources that explain ammonia in the reef aquarium that would be better than relying on any of the above comments.

I would advise you to either continue to employ ammonia test kits or practices similar to fishguy242's. There are many succsessful ways to run a reef with or without ammonia testing, but all involve accurate and safe information ;) This is less directed at you OP and more to the new reefer that might read the above statements and possibly harm their fish misinterpreting some possibly dangerous advice :)
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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Me and you already got into a link war, not strange you'd request it again as if new. My post history is searchable, whether or not you believe me won’t factor in the completed cycles we call off pics. You stated you had a nice lab ammonia meter, claimed some cycle stalls, and posted no data. Looks like we need your data, with a meter like that you could make some valid umpire calls.

start by taking readings from any reef with full fish and coral complement, and post them, we can look for non compliants. from any measured.


andrew, each cycle you deem stalled, incomplete, notice how you can’t list us the fail date?
you doubt the bacteria here....when’s it going to crash? It will live day to day I say, because it’s cycled.
look up free ammonia ld50 maximums from fish breeding sites and aquaculture data, it’s avail. Shrimp aquaculture max ammonia, available

I’m not trying to convince you, just calling you out for having such a cool light saber / ammonia meter and never posting a reading from it. I’ll accept any thread you bother to make with ammonia dynamics for our proofing threads. Make one pls

in the end you and I differ on what we think the consequences for uncontrolled ammonia will be, and how long that condition can remain in a perfectly working reef tank (other than a non seneye read)

Ill be sure and ask for updates here in a while, we'll see if it ever crashed.
 
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andrewey

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I'm not really quite sure what you mean? What "link war" are you referring to? I'm very much confused by your comment- are you sure you're responding to the right person?

We have discussed cycling and ammonia in the past, but I'm largely drawing a blank when you needed data from me or any type of "war" we engaged in?

I stand by the idea that it's incredibly dangerous to judge a cycle from a picture of a tank, unless that picture is a picture of a test kit or a readout of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate, etc.

Edit: @brandon429 After reading your edit, I'm not sure what you are talking about at all- my intention isn't to be rude- I really can't make heads or tails of what you are talking about? I think your comments pertains to me, but it's really hard to follow and more importantly, I don't think I've labeled a single person's thread as "stalled" or "incomplete", so maybe this is directed at someone else? I don't mean to be rude, but between those comments and something about a lightsaber, I really can't tell what you are referring to?

Either way, I would love to discuss this further via PM or on a new post dealing specifically with this- I don't want to interrupt the OP's question and prevent them from getting the help they need.
 
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